carl

It is sometimes possible to undertake a row of 12 cars on the A12. What should you do? If you just sit on the back of the queue you make it a 13-car mobile roadblock, exacerbating the problem. Why is 'KEEP LEFT, EXCEPT WHEN OVERTAKING' so difficult to understand? And what's so nice about the middle lane that people will pootle along it for miles on end when the left is clear?

robski -- I may have also been known to immediately overtake upon joining the A14. I think it's illegal -- you should progress in the left hand lane for a 'reasonable time' before moving to the right.

[This message has been edited by carl (edited 19 December 2000).]

robski

Surely, a reasonable amount of time would be to safely overtake the vehicle in front without causing any obstruction to another vehicle!

If you were forcing you way out onto a busy road without the correct gap I could see the point, but otherwise that would be a joke.

Reasonable, that word should be banned in anything that consititutes a law you can be seriously charged with breaking.

I mean, would we be happy with a law that stated, you should not kill, unless its reasonable!?

robski

carl

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by robski:
<B>
I mean, would we be happy with a law that stated, you should not kill, unless its reasonable!?
[/quote]

Err, I think that is what the law about killing says.

robski

what!?

it actually says unless its reasonable?

surely not

robski

mutant_matt

Stu,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Stuart H:
<B> Not possible I'm afraid Matt. When I post on here I do it as an individual who happens to be a traffic officer and drives a scoob. I will not say/post anything which will prejudice my position, nor speak on behalf of any force, or give people access to confidential material[/quote]

Fair enough, wouldn't want to compromise your position.

Cheers,

Matt.

Mick

iTrader: (1)

Isn't the reason why people Q in the outside lane, the fact that if YOU pull over to an inside lane somebody will immediately take YOUR place in the outside overtaking lane. This time they will be in the right because YOU are blocking the inside lane and travelling at a speed lower than that at which they intend to travel once (if ever!) the blockage ahead clears!

Hands up all those who do drive on motorways pulling out ONLY to overtake when an opportunity is available. Our Motorways and policing just do not encourage this most efficient way of driving

Mick

merlin

The reason why we get all the traffic in the third lane is because undertaking is illegal excepted in congested conditions. However, as Mick has just pointed out, in congested conditions, if you move over, then you lose your place in the queue.

If we were to adopt the US system where undertaking is legal, then there would be less traffic build up in the third lane and the flow would be better as a result. With the congested state that our motorways are now in, this has got to be a good thing.

The only argument I can see against allowing undertaking is that people who aren't experienced with undertaking would be more prone to have accidents. However many UK people drive in the US each year and I can't recall hearing of any accidents caused by UK drivers who couldn't cope with undertakers.

I also prefer the US system where whole lanes are used to join & exit the freeway rather than our slip roads. If you happen to meet a group of lorries just as you join a motorway, it can be a problem, particularly on a hill where the lorries understandably don't want to back off.

Pity they don't have decent cars in the States though

carl

I don't worry about losing the place in the queue. You can always get back in it if you try, particularly when you can accelerate and decelerate as quickly as you can in a Scoob. Besides, I think that if you indicate to move out to the third lane the people in that lane have to give way (not that they always do).

What annoys me is the right lane hogs who think they'll lose ground by pulling over to let me past (they're in the 3rd lane because they can see a lorry 2 miles away), when in fact I can be past in a few seconds and on my merry way. On the other hand, the rule is 'keep left, except when overtaking', not 'keep right, except when somebody wants to overtake'.

I do try to stick to the left lane as much as possible. Pisses some people off, but there you go. Also, I don't mind moving to the left and slowing down if necessary to let someone go past who wants to go faster. Who am I to spoil their day? I can be back to cruising speed quite quickly (not because I've got a Scoob, but because I'm not afraid to use the gears and the loud pedal). I don't think I've ever held anyone up by dawdling, even when I drove the Missus's 1.3 Fiesta (or the Subaru dealer's Justy).

sasim

Here is my one,

every morning I join a dual carrigeway in the left lane, I have to go about a mile then turn off from the right lane. The right lane is always backed up and the left lane empty. So can I drive down the left lane for a while then join the traffic in the right lane just before I need to turn off???

Stuart H, & co over to you....

Stuart

RB170

This kicked off a bit while I was away.....

I think the problem is that people know that the chance of them being pulled for sitting in either the middle or outside lane is next to nothing. If the police were to be more proactive and actualy enforce lane discipline then we would have less of a problem. This ofcourse means that they need more officers more cars etc, how many times do you take a motorway trip of more than 100 miles and so NO coppers????

I will PASS ON THE LEFT if I think it's safe and as long I remain under the speed limit, if I get pulled for it then so be it but something needs to be done, it's getting harder and harder to keep within the law....IMHO

Mark Kaye

I agree with Pete's sentiments, lane discipline in this country is apalling. Undertaking in this country, where it _is_ illegal, is downright dangerous, mainly because other road users are not expecting you to do so.

Personally I feel that, unless traffic in lanes is travelling at a very similar and reasonably slow speed (< 40MPH), you should not undertake. This is my own rule and I will pull back into the left lane on a motorway and hold back so that I do not undertake vehicles to my right. Patience is a virtue, and where my safety and others' is concerned it's a small price to pay for taking 10, 20 or even 30 minutes longer on my journey.

The only circumstances under which I will undertake are if traffic in all lanes is travelling at a similar speed which is less than 40MPH. Slip roads are probably not good candidates for undertaking as it's even more likely that someone intends to move into that lane.


Under any other circumstances I believe it's just downright dangerous (and selfish) to do so, putting not only yourself, but others at risk.

M

Scott J Davies

Down with Matt

Up with RB 170, go where there is Tarmac if its safe, its a Scoob eat Scoob world out there.

Scott 2 Scoobs, Matts Neighbour

mutant_matt

Oi Scott, you talking about me? I was only replying to what RB170 asked which was it is illegal - I didn't say you shouldn't do it (when safe)!!

Anyway Mr Scott 2 Scoobs (1 scoob again now though), I know where you live

Neil F

My tuppence.

I loath lane hoggers and I undertake regularly when I feel it is safe to do so.
My sentiment is that if the guy in front doesn't want to use the inside lanes then don't expect me not to!
I partially employ a technique described by Dick Grimes on the SIDC course: Sit behind and to the right of the car in front and she ( ) will clearly see you in her rear view mirror.
If they don't move over (they quite often do suprisingly enough) I then move to the inside lane within the scope of her nearside rear view mirror (Dicks advice stops here to protect the innocent).
After a suitable period of patience I overtake.

Dick, incidentally, also said on his course that the highway code allows you to overtake on the inside lane if the traffic in the right hand lane/s is moving slower than the inside lane, but only within the speed limit (obviously).
He further qualified this however by saying you must not change lanes to gain this advantage.
He also said that while it was legal, you will probably get stopped if spotted by an officer.
I can only assume that it's because it's easier for them to hassle you than to pull over the 250 cars that are hogging the outside 2 lanes? (Perish the thought that they might do their job properly.....)

And to answer Mick's question (1st page), I actively pull over to the farthest l/h lane as soon as I have overtaken (assuming sensible), though you'd be suprised how many passengers remark "cor, don't you change lanes a lot". They usually recieve a short lecture.....

Oooh, I feel better for getting that off me chest.

Neil.

Stuart Knight

iTrader: (2)

Whilst I agree with the sentiments above and frustration felt by others regarding undertaking, just remember that I got done for it (on a motorbike of all things, see my post above) I got off leniently (some I'm told) with 5 points and £250 fine. Can you afford that on your license?

It would be much easier if they just made it legal. It wouldn't take people long to get used to it, and if they never do it, the situation will just get worse as traffic numbers keep on increasing on our motorways.

robski

Why not use cameras!?

Simple really, just paint the normal gatso type markings across all 3 lanes, but a bit longer. Measure speed of vehicle as it crosses markings (generate speeding notice if applicable), then if vehicle is in lane 2 or 3, check lane 1 or 2 (respectively) for safe stopping distance, if this is clear, issue a fixed penalty notice for "lane hogging". Make this an offence, with 4 points and a fine and people WILL use better lane discipline, it worked for a lot of people for speeding, so would surely work for lane hogging.

robski