Can I beat a bike?
#151
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Bikers conveniently forget to include themselves in the power to weight calculation
I was racing at Shakespeare (in my road legal spec scoob) on the same day as some highly modified bikes, generally they were needing to run long swing arms to get anywhere near my times. I wonder how they handle with them on
Andy
#154
Scooby Regular
Dont feel so bad; a large bore low geared 2 stroke trail bike is a serious bit of kit! They are animals! I've had big CC road bikes and lairy little 2 strokers scare the **** out of me
#156
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Yup your right, bikes are easily tuned, but I still think the right car in the right hands will be faster on a track.
I think with Bikes driver skill counts for around 70%, however with a car it possibly is a little less. You need to be a V.good rider to get quick times on twisty tracks.... Which is why Nurburgring is such a good comparison, it really shows that the pure brutal pace of a superbike is not always enough to make it faster than a supercar around a demanding track.
I think with Bikes driver skill counts for around 70%, however with a car it possibly is a little less. You need to be a V.good rider to get quick times on twisty tracks.... Which is why Nurburgring is such a good comparison, it really shows that the pure brutal pace of a superbike is not always enough to make it faster than a supercar around a demanding track.
unfortunately bumps really upset bike handling (unless it's a motorcross bike)
Think that on a drag strip with road legal tyres you'd have to spend silly money to beat a standard superbike. Busa turbo with big swing arm........ NO CHANCE!
Around a proper track, both on road legal tyres with driver/rider who can push vehicle 100%, standard bike, car might win if unlimited budget. Bike with limitless budget and mods........ BIKE WINS!
When it's -3 outside and i need to get to work....... CAR WINS!
Also like you said very few people can push a modern bike fully, most are no where near at all. Most people can push a quick car to 90%. Few people can push a fast bike past 60%. You only have to look at the difference of the riders within motogp, they are all the best riders in the world, collin edwards has been no where near rossi for two years on the same bike! You put collin in club racing and he'd wipe the floor! Put club racer against typical road rider, same again.
#157
straight from the crate bikes win hands down, but spend ££££££££££££ on any fast (uses the term loosely) car then obviously it gets interesting.
So to conclude....yesterday i went faster on my bike in ****ty, salty, crappy condirion than Brun and his Lotus can go...ever.
i still can't feel my fingers and i think i have had the cheapest, fastest sex change known to man...need a fun car for winter.
Pud
So to conclude....yesterday i went faster on my bike in ****ty, salty, crappy condirion than Brun and his Lotus can go...ever.
i still can't feel my fingers and i think i have had the cheapest, fastest sex change known to man...need a fun car for winter.
Pud
#158
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#160
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Valid point about cold weather..
Did 102 miles on Friday, in the wet and cold, with semi-slicks.. Was exciting! lol!
Took about 2 days for the feeling to come back in my thumbs though.
Did 102 miles on Friday, in the wet and cold, with semi-slicks.. Was exciting! lol!
Took about 2 days for the feeling to come back in my thumbs though.
#161
£ for £ a bike will be quicker but that was not the original question "
So does 10k = easily outperform a bike?
Is it easy?
suspect no to both, but tbh why not go take ya test, buy a bike + all the kit + extra's, maybe some advanced tuition + couple of trackdays + servicing & tyres all for less than 10k, which still then does 0.00046mph in a traffic jam and can't pull wheelies.
Pud
#164
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Regarding the brands times, we were running 49s if you check the entire MST results from timeattack. I would hope to be running low 47s next year, on road tyres.
Yes you can make a subaru as quick as an big bike, a good rider makes a difference, but even an average rider needs to be determined to keep the bike on song.
If you go to Santapod and actually watch the guys drag racing bikes, you'll be surprised how slow a standard or in some cases modified bike can be over the 1/4 mile. The well prepped bikes with experienced riders are different, the super street bikes are hitting 8 flat, I think it was a super street bike I watched doing 7.97.
So the answer is yes, and no.
Yes you can make a subaru as quick as an big bike, a good rider makes a difference, but even an average rider needs to be determined to keep the bike on song.
If you go to Santapod and actually watch the guys drag racing bikes, you'll be surprised how slow a standard or in some cases modified bike can be over the 1/4 mile. The well prepped bikes with experienced riders are different, the super street bikes are hitting 8 flat, I think it was a super street bike I watched doing 7.97.
So the answer is yes, and no.
#165
Scooby Regular
And to add to the argument comparing track times against big CC bikes isnt really fair as they are not as well suited to a track as a nice MotoGP bike or a Supersport
#166
Former Sponsor
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same old story car v bike
nurburgring 7mins 35sec on an r1 that will be bren from sliders ,
nothing standard can pass this man on the ring car wise .
iv met bren an its impressive the skill he has and the bottle ,
on a r1 @ the ring .
check it out -
YouTube - Nurburgring 7:35 lap on R1 Brendan Slider Guest House
nurburgring 7mins 35sec on an r1 that will be bren from sliders ,
nothing standard can pass this man on the ring car wise .
iv met bren an its impressive the skill he has and the bottle ,
on a r1 @ the ring .
check it out -
YouTube - Nurburgring 7:35 lap on R1 Brendan Slider Guest House
Standard road going cars can do that time - would have to be a great driver and probably not on a TF day.
Bikes are quicker but cars have more grip around corners.
#167
Apart from occassional motorcycling genius i am probably in the "average rider" bracket, once the revs are over 6/7000 rpm the bike "is on song" all the way to 15000rpm, thats loads of revs to play with, especially round some twisties 2nd and 3rd is all thats needed to have power on tap.
or am i mis understanding what you mean???
Pud
#168
Scooby Regular
I think he's trying to say you have to have MASSIVE ***** to ride a bike on the limit but just about anyone can take a car to the limit i.e. most will back off alot sooner on a bike because the consiquences are much greater
If I went out for a drive now in the car I could nail it out of corners and even take round-a-bouts at pace but If I was on the bike I'd be tip toeing everywhere.
If I went out for a drive now in the car I could nail it out of corners and even take round-a-bouts at pace but If I was on the bike I'd be tip toeing everywhere.
#169
uuuummmmm....
agree about the "at this time of year" thing but in general theres plenty of bikers who will go flat stick on't road, had a few friendly encounters on't road and the only reason i will back off (if i am behind the car) is because you simply don't know how fast the driver is through the bends. If i was infront, knew the road, dry day blah blah i generally don't back off until the job is done so to speak.
As for reaching the limit...its more like reaching Their own limits not the car/bikes.
agree about the "at this time of year" thing but in general theres plenty of bikers who will go flat stick on't road, had a few friendly encounters on't road and the only reason i will back off (if i am behind the car) is because you simply don't know how fast the driver is through the bends. If i was infront, knew the road, dry day blah blah i generally don't back off until the job is done so to speak.
As for reaching the limit...its more like reaching Their own limits not the car/bikes.
#170
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how do you mean exactley?
Apart from occassional motorcycling genius i am probably in the "average rider" bracket, once the revs are over 6/7000 rpm the bike "is on song" all the way to 15000rpm, thats loads of revs to play with, especially round some twisties 2nd and 3rd is all thats needed to have power on tap.
or am i mis understanding what you mean???
Pud
Apart from occassional motorcycling genius i am probably in the "average rider" bracket, once the revs are over 6/7000 rpm the bike "is on song" all the way to 15000rpm, thats loads of revs to play with, especially round some twisties 2nd and 3rd is all thats needed to have power on tap.
or am i mis understanding what you mean???
Pud
I think a great many bike people would be surprised at how quick some cars can be in the real world. And the power to weight ratios WITH RIDER explain this. Say a bike weighs 175kg, and has 150hp, now put at 80kg rider on it, 10kg of fuel and 10kg of protective gear, and your 857hp/ton has suddenly become 545hp/ton. And those figures relate to peak power, a good quick highpower (600+) subaru will be within 90% of it's peak power when going through the gears, a bike I imagine will a little further away than that.
Obviously a modified bike changes the goal posts, but I hope people can appreciate it's not as cut and dried as it might first appear.
#171
Scooby Regular
uuuummmmm....
agree about the "at this time of year" thing but in general theres plenty of bikers who will go flat stick on't road, had a few friendly encounters on't road and the only reason i will back off (if i am behind the car) is because you simply don't know how fast the driver is through the bends. If i was infront, knew the road, dry day blah blah i generally don't back off until the job is done so to speak.
As for reaching the limit...its more like reaching Their own limits not the car/bikes.
agree about the "at this time of year" thing but in general theres plenty of bikers who will go flat stick on't road, had a few friendly encounters on't road and the only reason i will back off (if i am behind the car) is because you simply don't know how fast the driver is through the bends. If i was infront, knew the road, dry day blah blah i generally don't back off until the job is done so to speak.
As for reaching the limit...its more like reaching Their own limits not the car/bikes.
Most people can get the back end sliding out on their car but there are not many bikers that are able to do this and control it without having a tank slapper.
#172
Scooby Regular
I think a great many bike people would be surprised at how quick some cars can be in the real world. And the power to weight ratios WITH RIDER explain this. Say a bike weighs 175kg, and has 150hp, now put at 80kg rider on it, 10kg of fuel and 10kg of protective gear, and your 857hp/ton has suddenly become 545hp/ton. And those figures relate to peak power, a good quick highpower (600+) subaru will be within 90% of it's peak power when going through the gears, a bike I imagine will a little further away than that.
.
.
As a biker I'll always stand by my belief that its down to the size of your ***** and level of skill at the end of the day..
#173
If you come accross the right (or wrong depending on your POV) subaru you'll need to use those revs. I've nearly run into the back of a few bikes that gave it a "quick squirt to get away".
I think a great many bike people would be surprised at how quick some cars can be in the real world. And the power to weight ratios WITH RIDER explain this. Say a bike weighs 175kg, and has 150hp, now put at 80kg rider on it, 10kg of fuel and 10kg of protective gear, and your 857hp/ton has suddenly become 545hp/ton. And those figures relate to peak power, a good quick highpower (600+) subaru will be within 90% of it's peak power when going through the gears, a bike I imagine will a little further away than that.
Obviously a modified bike changes the goal posts, but I hope people can appreciate it's not as cut and dried as it might first appear.
I think a great many bike people would be surprised at how quick some cars can be in the real world. And the power to weight ratios WITH RIDER explain this. Say a bike weighs 175kg, and has 150hp, now put at 80kg rider on it, 10kg of fuel and 10kg of protective gear, and your 857hp/ton has suddenly become 545hp/ton. And those figures relate to peak power, a good quick highpower (600+) subaru will be within 90% of it's peak power when going through the gears, a bike I imagine will a little further away than that.
Obviously a modified bike changes the goal posts, but I hope people can appreciate it's not as cut and dried as it might first appear.
If i came across a 600bhp scoob without knowing then yeah i'd expect to be think shiiit thats quick.
Power to weight, yup probabaly not inc the rider, but then are the car weights inc driver and fully fuelled...suspect not so it does work both ways.
Ultimately i disagree that average biker could be surprised about how fast a car is as ya average porsche 911 will be dispatched without much hassle on a thou, if the rider is lazy and thinks nowt can beat him then yeah but because he ain't trying imho.
or, read ages ago about 5 busa's all in varing form of tuned etc, the one with the least bhp, because the owner wanted a hyperbike for everyday use, had just over 300bhp, the most was something utterly rediculas, now if he could lay that power down, then 600bhp scoob ain't gunna keep up.
Finally having some fun with Brun in his 300bhp scoob and me on 125bhp gixer, just coming off a roundie he later said "i've never had anything leave me like that before", 300bhp ain't that common, 600bhp really ain't common, so yes cars can be bike fast......but only really if the bikes are basically std, which says it all.
Pud
#174
Scooby Senior
Power to weight, yup probabaly not inc the rider, but then are the car weights inc driver and fully fuelled...suspect not so it does work both ways.
#176
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If you think a 911 is quick, that's where you're going wrong!
a good quick 600+ bhp car.....not exactley on every corner now are they, infact plenty of supercars don't have that, so yes you have a point but thats a heavily modded scoob against a std bike.
If i came across a 600bhp scoob without knowing then yeah i'd expect to be think shiiit thats quick.
Power to weight, yup probabaly not inc the rider, but then are the car weights inc driver and fully fuelled...suspect not so it does work both ways.
Ultimately i disagree that average biker could be surprised about how fast a car is as ya average porsche 911 will be dispatched without much hassle on a thou, if the rider is lazy and thinks nowt can beat him then yeah but because he ain't trying imho.
or, read ages ago about 5 busa's all in varing form of tuned etc, the one with the least bhp, because the owner wanted a hyperbike for everyday use, had just over 300bhp, the most was something utterly rediculas, now if he could lay that power down, then 600bhp scoob ain't gunna keep up.
Finally having some fun with Brun in his 300bhp scoob and me on 125bhp gixer, just coming off a roundie he later said "i've never had anything leave me like that before", 300bhp ain't that common, 600bhp really ain't common, so yes cars can be bike fast......but only really if the bikes are basically std, which says it all.
Pud
If i came across a 600bhp scoob without knowing then yeah i'd expect to be think shiiit thats quick.
Power to weight, yup probabaly not inc the rider, but then are the car weights inc driver and fully fuelled...suspect not so it does work both ways.
Ultimately i disagree that average biker could be surprised about how fast a car is as ya average porsche 911 will be dispatched without much hassle on a thou, if the rider is lazy and thinks nowt can beat him then yeah but because he ain't trying imho.
or, read ages ago about 5 busa's all in varing form of tuned etc, the one with the least bhp, because the owner wanted a hyperbike for everyday use, had just over 300bhp, the most was something utterly rediculas, now if he could lay that power down, then 600bhp scoob ain't gunna keep up.
Finally having some fun with Brun in his 300bhp scoob and me on 125bhp gixer, just coming off a roundie he later said "i've never had anything leave me like that before", 300bhp ain't that common, 600bhp really ain't common, so yes cars can be bike fast......but only really if the bikes are basically std, which says it all.
Pud
#177
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a good quick 600+ bhp car.....not exactley on every corner now are they, infact plenty of supercars don't have that, so yes you have a point but thats a heavily modded scoob against a std bike.
If i came across a 600bhp scoob without knowing then yeah i'd expect to be think shiiit thats quick.
Power to weight, yup probabaly not inc the rider, but then are the car weights inc driver and fully fuelled...suspect not so it does work both ways.
Ultimately i disagree that average biker could be surprised about how fast a car is as ya average porsche 911 will be dispatched without much hassle on a thou, if the rider is lazy and thinks nowt can beat him then yeah but because he ain't trying imho.
or, read ages ago about 5 busa's all in varing form of tuned etc, the one with the least bhp, because the owner wanted a hyperbike for everyday use, had just over 300bhp, the most was something utterly rediculas, now if he could lay that power down, then 600bhp scoob ain't gunna keep up.
Finally having some fun with Brun in his 300bhp scoob and me on 125bhp gixer, just coming off a roundie he later said "i've never had anything leave me like that before", 300bhp ain't that common, 600bhp really ain't common, so yes cars can be bike fast......but only really if the bikes are basically std, which says it all.
Pud
If i came across a 600bhp scoob without knowing then yeah i'd expect to be think shiiit thats quick.
Power to weight, yup probabaly not inc the rider, but then are the car weights inc driver and fully fuelled...suspect not so it does work both ways.
Ultimately i disagree that average biker could be surprised about how fast a car is as ya average porsche 911 will be dispatched without much hassle on a thou, if the rider is lazy and thinks nowt can beat him then yeah but because he ain't trying imho.
or, read ages ago about 5 busa's all in varing form of tuned etc, the one with the least bhp, because the owner wanted a hyperbike for everyday use, had just over 300bhp, the most was something utterly rediculas, now if he could lay that power down, then 600bhp scoob ain't gunna keep up.
Finally having some fun with Brun in his 300bhp scoob and me on 125bhp gixer, just coming off a roundie he later said "i've never had anything leave me like that before", 300bhp ain't that common, 600bhp really ain't common, so yes cars can be bike fast......but only really if the bikes are basically std, which says it all.
Pud
It's f&cking obvious that like for like with professional driver/rider, a big power bike will be faster than a standard scoob. Don't know why so many people are arguing this point.
Can a scoob be tuned to be faster than a bike? Ofcourse it can, if you have enough money and talent.
It's like asking if Timmy Mallet could ever be a professional athlete. He could be, but is it really going to happen? I think not. Besides, his glasses would slow him down.
#179
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