f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Stop acting like a small minded generalising xenophobe then.

No of course you don't

Martin2005

I think you'll find it's 27 times the rate!

My views on this are simple, ban guns full stop, afterall why do people need these things, absolutely no good at all comes from them.

And comparing guns to cars is utter nonesense, people need cars, people dont need bloody guns.

Brendan Hughes

guilty

DanTheMan

All this BAN GUNS stuff is a bit like targetting the wrong thing in my mind, someone said you can't carry out mass murders without them but what about 9/11 using planes and things like the big bomb attacks etc. Surely it would be better targetting the causes behind those fingers on the triggers, or the hands on the red buttons etc.....

Martin2005

Most gun murders aren't pre-meditated though!

In the states most gun deaths happen in the home, infact owning a gun makes you far far more likely to be the victim of a gun crime!

andythejock01wrx

andythejock01wrx

See post 27.

Suresh

That the second time you've used a big word that you obviously don't understand fanboy. Why not take a rest and give your IQ a chance to catch up with your mouth!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

And that is the second time you have used a small word you obviously don't understand. Take a rest yourself and see if your IQ can catch up with your shoe size. Prepare for a long rest though

Supercue

iTrader: (1)

Now if you had said Government I could understand but from your replies your IQ is obviously limited and blinkered so lets make this easy, just on population headcount even you have to accept this isnt possible

Is this the best you can conject to justify American gun slaughter?
I for one would rather live in a country where fire arms are banned. No you will never wipe out this type of atrocity completely but the odds are reduced expodentially as borne out in the data available. The UK may not be perfect by any stretch but I do think we take a good fair stance.

After reading your posts in reply to other members as well as my own you are either a troll or just a very sad and bitter little boy.

Either way paddle back accross the pond and take your chances.

Just for the record this isnt a "Spank the Yank" thread

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

What is it with people on this thread and mentioning IQ, let's not go there OK as you never know as you might just get a shock. My comment on the idiots was meant tongue in cheek in reply to your original 'idiots inhabiting the US' comment and was not to be taken literally, maybe it was too subtley put and for that I apologise. Next time I will highlight it with lots of emoticons so you get the gist

Anyway I am not justifying gun slaughter as you put it as well you know. I just get a little tired of the stereotyping that goes on in NSR be it Yanks, Muslims or whatever.

So often we read in NSR about how posters feel we shouldn't meddle in other country's affairs and should put our own house in order yet as soon as there is a chance to bash the Yanks off the NSR crowd go passing judgement in the click of a keyboard (and I don't mean you specifically Supercue)

I have spent a fair bit of time in the US and can honestly say that I feel on balance their society is in better shape than ours here in the UK. While we only get to hear about the problems with their gun culture there are some trade offs the other way that we of course don't get to hear about.

I agree that on balance I feel not having guns so readily available and easy to own would be a good thing, but then I haven't been brought up in that culture so I am not commenting from any position of objectivity. To us in the UK it seems unbelievable, but then of course imagine what state this country would be in if we had the same gun availability. It doesn't bear thinking about.

You say this is not a Yank bashing thread, but I have been around this forum too long to not see the way it could go. I have some good friends who are American and have nbjoyed my time over there and it just saddens me that all we seem to hear about America (and discuss on here) is the negative side - they ain't all gun toting morons or George Bush

Geezer

But enough of them are to block any moves to outlaw guns.......

Geezer

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Trouble is it is a part of their history and constitution and as we in the UK well know changing things like that isn't easy even without the fierce patriotism that many Americans seem to have.

DanTheMan

Plus since the gun bans here, criminals are still able to access guns and carry out drive by shootings, just check the statistics for armed crime !!! those bans dont quite seem to have targetted the right people, it's almost like the criminals don't listen to the law.

Brendan Hughes

NSS...

andythejock01wrx

Aha ! Progress !

I've spent a fair bit of time in the States too and have found them to be a likeable bunch. Makes it all the sadder that so many of the die each year due to the armlock the gun lobby has their politicians in.

andythejock01wrx

Fair enough, you'll probably never iradicate gun crime altogether.

However, if the US had a system along our lines at least your average nut would be less likely to have easy access to guns to enable them to take a few others souls out when they decide to top themselves.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I actually like America, for the UK, its like having a slightly cool, very daft and aggressive mate who occasionally gets you into trouble.

But guns, no, mix our daft drinking culture with the American laws and I reckon per capita we would be stepping over mounds of corpses in town centres, our gun laws were much stricter when they were available but I think the Yanks cope better but ineviatably millions of people given access to very powerful firearms someone will decide to kill on a grand scale, expecially with the way western culture tends to ostracize anyone different, in fact I think some do it on purpose.

andythejock01wrx

LOL

Leslie

You did not quite understand what I meant. The sort of violence that we see nowadays from even very young people indicates to me that we could well see those sorts of massacres taking place in the not too distant future, and that does concern me naturally, as do the road accident figures of course.

The average you speak of at just over 13 a day is significantly better than some years ago when it was getting on for 25 deaths a day with considerably fewer cars on the road.

I shan't bother with an Americanism though!

Les

CrisPDuk

I don't think it's the ready availability of guns that is the problem with America, both Switzerland and Canada (well you would with their neighbours) have more guns per head than the US, yet you almost never hear of this sort of incident occuring in those countries.

I believe the problem lies more with the total inability of America as a nation to recognise the concepts of personal responsibility, and respect the beliefs of others.

Dave T-S

I agree re the violence. The writings of Charles Murray examining the underclass and social breakdown in the USA and UK make interesting reading. However, legitimate gun ownership laws in the UK would make it a sight more difficult for your average chav in the UK to go postal than in the USA.

Indeed. Road deaths have halved in the UK in the last 25 years or so, and as you say per capita of vehicles it is probably somewhere around a quarter.

My point about road deaths was that is statistically clearly a far greater issue than gun atrocities caused by legitimate weapons, and much easier to do something about. 32 people and children get killed in two massacres in a 20 year period and people rightly or not get very emotional about that, yet approaching 100,000 die in road accidents in the same period (i.e. over 3000 times as many) and people do not really bat an eyelid but say "the gun lobby always drag that one out". Well yes, because it IS relevant. There is rarely such a thing as a road "accident". The majority are preventable and are caused by people's carelessness or stupidity. There is one vehicle for every two people in this country but for 99.9999% of them they are the good drivers and all the others are at fault.

I just think picking on legitimate gun ownership in the UK when so much could still be done about road deaths, but is not, is a case of severely misguided priorities - IMHO

GC8WRX

Where i live, if you ask the right (or wrong?) people, guns arent hard to get hold of if you got the cash, they are expensive but available!!

So imo englands gun ban has just put the gangsters in control of most guns!

Leslie

Good point.

Les

andythejock01wrx

Do you have any stats to confirm this ?

I mentioned this a while back when chatting to a Yank and he said that in fact that it was more difficult to get guns in Canada than in the US, especially the likes of M16s.

Equally, I went out with a Swiss lass for a while and when over there had a chat with a friend of hers that was in the Swiss Army. He said the commonly held belief that Swiss soldiers can take their rifles home with them is false.

DanTheMan

wow, did not expect the clock makers to be so heavily armed

DanTheMan

What America can learn from Switzerland is that the best way to reduce gun misuse is to promote responsible gun ownership. While America cannot adopt the Swiss model, America can foster responsible gun ownership along more individualistic, American lines. Firearms safety classes in elementary schools, optional marksmanship classes in high schools and colleges, and the widespread availability of adult safety training at licensed shooting ranges are some of the ways that America can make its tradition of responsible gun use even stronger.

Full page here

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Has anyone read anything about the youngster responsible for this?

How about we get to the REAL issue and ask the difficult questions of how a 19 year old can have such distain for life and such regard for fame that they a) want to comit suicide at such a tender age and b) think that taking the lives of others is the best way to become famous!

Of course, that would involve moving getting involved with a debate much more complicated than simply whether to ban gun ownership! Something politicians don't want to do!

Ns04

Suresh

Swiss men have to do at least 40 weeks of military service between the ages of 18 - 30. During that time they do keep their weapons at home. AFAIK private gun ownership is not that prevalent. I lived in an apartment building in Zurich for a few years where the only thing between me and my neighbour's SIG SG 550 assault rifle was a flimsy cellar partition. I have never, ever fired one of course, as that would have been forbudden

Military of Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They have had the occasional random massacre too, but with nothing like the frequency seen in the US.

For example -
BBC ON THIS DAY | 27 | 2001: Swiss man kills 14

andythejock01wrx

Fair enough re trhe Swiss and their guns.

However, if you make guns much less readily available in America, you would still get less shootings !