The Chief

Incidentally a big litre bike will do the 1/4 mile in 10.5 seconds - a second quicker than a Macca F1, pretty quick i'd say.

slim_boy_fat

Please dont kick things off yet another time.

Its been proven time and again that bikes a quicker road or track than road cars.

Last one i saw was a lambo getting whooped by a Ducatii 1098. Even under brakes there wasnt much in it.

chris singleton

Interesting thread

I remember when my mk 1 clio 16v felt quick although that was 9 year ago

I've driven a 700 odd bhp R32 skyline which was brutal, when the turbo finally came on full boost (about 6000 rpm ) it was so quick I can only describe it as feeling dangerous

Touching on an early comment, always feel faster in the passeger seat than it does when you're driving IMHO. Surroundings also count, Scariest moment I've had in a car was in tweenierobs old r32 when he was practicing 6-7000 rpm launches down a deserted narrow country lane outside the pod

Fondest memory of a car feeling quick was my first ever test drive in 96 uk scoob with the bigger laggy turbo, the seller took me and the mrs out for a spin and we both thought we were going to die I bought it without even driving it myself.

RobEvo5

iTrader: (9)

TBH I don't think enough is ever enough - no matter what you have you will always hanker after more. I think some other chap touched on this with a very profound statement - its in our nature whether its cars or anything else else to always want bigger and better.

Shame we haven't got a time machine where we can all go back to the past when we thought, our Xr3i's, ford capri's, triumph dolly, clio 16v(era depending how much a fossil you are), and then jump forward for a test drive in a modded scoobie

My bro is a prime example of enough is never enough, he has a car that has silly performance and power that blows me away every time I get in it. Yet he is always looking for the next modification and BHP. If he had the power of a silly fuel car I don't think it will be enough.

I am one of the lucky few petrol heads that enough is enough, and its not all about brute power. Comfort, reliability, value for money, and just enough power to put a smile on your face is enough. But that said if money had no value, i would be the first to go out and a get nutty super car

BIG FUD

iTrader: (84)

I think this is true the point of when your a pasenger its tottaly different no way could i sit in my car as a pasenger, ive been waiting for a car that scared me ive now got it so enough is enough no way could you go over 450 mark on the street mine in dry days spins 1,2,3 gears with no effort so any more just wdnt get u know where except in to a bus stop im just hitting 505 ft trq but am seriously thinking of taking it down to 450 .450 and i think it will be sorted then ....

Jamesemt

Yeah but its a different type of adrenaline...I took my DAS in 2003 working on that basis, but it just doesn't feel right (and I spent two years with a Baby Blade to try and learn to be a 'proper biker'). Maybe bikes just aren't for me.

Jamesemt

To further add to my original post, the nearest I have ever got to the 'Oh My God' feeling was driving my wifes standard Fabia vRS, approaching a roundabout slowing down to about 15mph in 2nd gear, clear roundabout and full throttle. Felt absolutely amazing (to about 2,500rpm...). That was down to the gearing - I've got a 200bhp version of that car (remapped Ibiza Cupra TDI) and it feels far slower at slow speeds.

Im thinking a modded MR2 Turbo targa might be the answer...now where did I put those scissors?

RobEvo5

iTrader: (9)

Despite the hairdresser image of a convertible (think you can get away with it on a targ MR2). A convertible does add a different dimension to the experience. Out of all the cars I have ever owned (and its been a few), the convertibles have always come high on the list of the most fun and enjoyable cars I have owned. The present M3 Evo convert is no exception.

Nido

But you don't get the same feeling of acceleration when riding a bike. Pillion yes, but not riding, your position when you are on a sportsbike seems to negate that.

I can get my bike round a track pretty handily, and at roughly 700 bhp / tonne (including me) it's safe to say it's pretty quick

Yet you don't get that "push in the back" acceleration that I do from my car, despite the fact the bike is over twice as fast

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Went in my mates PPP'd New Age, 260 bhp, that felt quick, they are pretty breathtaking from a standstill and still accelerate well once moving but I am getting more used to it nowadays, its quicker than my 250 bhp Saab but not by much.

Would love to have a go in a 400 bhp Scoob, just need him to spend some more money on it.

mg driver

I dont agree .
In theory bikes would often be faster but the number of riders that can actually extract the bikes performance is very small.
I have never come across a bike that could get one over on me on my local fast fun favourite roads and they have tried on quite a few occasions and im only in a 200 bhp front drive 4 door car .Maybe the bike was more capable than the rider but so what ,what good is performance you cant use?

What good is spouting what a bike can do in theory ,it cant do anything without a rider and 99% of the riders out there are a far cry from being budding valentino rossi's,most of them despite what they think are actually pretty cr4p.
This is why most bikes/bikers can be easily got the better of by a half decent car/driver combination,90-95% of a cars performance is easily extractable by most drivers ,very few bikers can get anywhere near 90% out of their bikes.I would guess ,the ability to extract even 60% of the bikes cornering and braking performance abilities would be beyond most riders capabilities.
The fastest cars are always faster than the fastest bikes around a lap.

Brit_in_Japan

Jerk !

Power on it's own means nothing. What really takes one's breath away is the perception of acceleration and especially the rate of change of acceleration. Power by itself doesn't tell you how a car will accelerate or rate of change of acceleration, it depends on the torque characteristics of the engine, the mass of the vehicle and factors affecting perceptions of speed, such as engine noise, wind blowing in your hair and how close you are to the ground (a sense of impending danger definitely takes the breath away!).

Some years ago I used to have a Fiat 128 3P with a heavily modified 1300cc engine. It had rally spec high lift cams and a big twin choke carb of a 3 litre V6 CApri. When the power came in (and there was very little below about 3500rpm!) there was a real kick in the back. The sound, the high revs, the way the power came in, it all made it feel quite special. I suspect it was very tame by modern standards, but the perception was one of excitement.



BTW, I wasn't insulting you above, jerk is the internationally recognised term for rate of change of acceleration. It's something which roller coaster designers pay close attention to when creating rides which feel exciting.

slim_boy_fat

Your right about that, my zx10r is about as fast as anything on the road, will do 0-150 in 13secs. But the feeling you get when something the weighs over 1.5 tonnes and has 400bhp is different.

Its kind of the feeling you get when an airliner takes off, its not accelerating as fast as my bike or a fast car for that matter but its that feeling of power.

slim_boy_fat

Your last line is simply not true as had been proved time again for road vehicles.

As for the rest, thats the greatest thing about bikes, they take infinatly more skill to master than cars. Take much bigger ***** to ride, and you can spend a life time and still not get close to 100%

Clearly on the road the bikes you talk about care more for saftey than you do. If you have ever ridden an bike on the road you would understand the comitment it takes even to ride at 5 tenths on a litre bike.

NACRO

I average low 9 minutes round the Nurburgring although this is dropping now I own a quick car.

Generally speaking I overtake a large number of theoretically faster motorbikes, particularly in corners without long straights between them.

However it's a fact that a competently driven bike will lap faster than I can.

slim_boy_fat

Litre bikes with standard road tyres in open sessions can lap 7'30"

Having not ridden/driven the ring i can only guess at how colse the barriers are and how much it would hurt as a rider if i came off. Then to find i get run over by a **** in a car who thinks he is schuy!!

Bikers mostly leave themselves much larger margines of safety than car drivers, i know i do jumping between both.

blot

50bhp is the answer to how much power required to feel really fast.

Pootle about all week in a knackered 106 which on a good day might make 50 bhp. Now there are times when 60mph feels quick in it, particularly with it's chronic understeer, but generally it's slow, slow, slow & overtaking manouvres are an art form requiring a lot of road craft and planning.

So how does 50 bhp feel fast? It doesn't. But it does mean when we jump in the lambo, it always feels hyper mega quick everytime

Then again, so would any other car on the planet bar a g-whiz

OcTag3n

iTrader: (4)

I think I know what you mean.

The adrenaline rush on a bike is more of a fearful adrenaline rush, you feel that you are so far on the limit that you are truly dicing with death. For some that is the ultimate buzz, but for most it's just a little bit too scary. In a car you feel safer because your cocooned inside, although your life would still probably be in jeopardy if you roll a car at 150mph or slam into a tree. This is a common misconception with a lot of car drivers.

NACRO

Certainly there are many bikers who choose to ride slowly on the ring for safety reasons. Likewise there are a large number of idiot bikers who seem to think because their machines are super quick that they are too and act as rolling road blocks in the bends. You would be amazed how many numpties there are (mostly with GB plates) that fit into this category.
I can think of laps I've completed where if it wasn't for my skill and observance I'd likely have ended up hitting one of these losers or at least forced one to take evasive action. As it is I give them a wide berth and since I got the jahreskarte a ruined lap isn't the end of the world.
There are idiots round driving round there on 'litre bikes' who seem to think screaming off on the straights and then driving slower than some coaches I can think of on the bends makes them 'ring meisters'.
As someone who holds both a bike and car licence the amount of mostly middle aged bikers out there with little or no skill or roadcraft is shocking. Maybe I just expect a higher standard from bikers than your average car driving muppet.............

mg driver

"Your last line is simply not true as had been proved time again for road vehicles."


i guess for road vehicles it will depend simply on the track in question ,the tighter and more twisty it is the more the bike would be disadvantaged.
Im not necasarily talking of just road vehicles though,the fastest bikes and cars arent road going versions.
No bike will even be in the same street as an f1 car or similar even in a straight line ,the power to weight ratio of an f1 car is around 1600 bhp/ton ,infact theres a vid on the net of 3 hondas racing ,the f1 car ,the honda superbike and a honda power boat ,the f1 car absolutely takes the bike apart ,ultimately 4 tyres on the ground are always going to stop and turn better than 2.You can get the fastest road bike there is and id bet any good hot hatch with decent rubber could carry more speed through an apex than the bike .
To me the fun of driving is corners ,i cant imagine driving/riding something so compromised that it has to make up for its shortcomings on the brakes and through corners with pure blistering straight line pace.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

LOL, Hence why said: "need" as opposed to "want".

You will always want more!

Ns04

Jamesemt

GUYS!!!

Can we not turn this into a car vs bike war. Yes you can go very fast very cheaply, but my main reason for selling my bike was the amount of bike RTAs I've done in my job (the clue's in my username...).

You risk so much on a bike. Despite the myth, I have seen hundreds of people walk away from car crashes were they have no right to be alive (and most of them were 1.4 Saxos...never buy a Saxo, they don't crash well).

The slightest off on a bike can result in broken fingers at the very least.

There is another forum for people ranting about Bikes vs Cars - it's called Visordown.

Oh, and yes I would love a Ducati 998 but wouldn't dare ride it on the road

The Chief

No lets

anyway Scoobs vs bikes seems to be a popular can of worms here on S-Net with with Scoobs VS VXR's running a close second

pnbond007

iTrader: (1)

Well my 93 WRX-RA 300/310BHP, feels quick enough for me. When they are well set up with tyres, suspension & good brakes....what more could you need.

If your after an 'extended' straight line dash, then the RA falls pretty short..

If your having a blast around the twisties..its all down to trust & nerve

I never get bored with mine.....its breathtaking everytime I put my foot down

fattb

iTrader: (1)

A mate of mine has a tuscan with the RR pack/spec but no hydratrack, he didn't really get stuck in until we were firmly on the move, but i remember thinking it was pulling as hard at 80 + as my scoob would at 20

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

That is where you notice the power the most isn't it?

When I had my classic scooby upgraded from std power to 319bhp and similar torque, it definately felt quicker to 80....but then again, a std classic is hardly slow to that speed. It's what happens after then that impresses.

I don't wish to ignite the very, very tired Scooby vs M3 debate. No, really I don't!!! But I well recall a mate in a M3 convertible saying that he'd reel me in after 70mph and subsequently seeing him shink slowly in my rear view mirror (on a track day of course)....all the way to 120mph. Same story with a 911 C4, although that was a closer thing and I'm in no doubt that had we kept going he would have eventually pipped me at even higher speeds!

Get a classic above 300bhp and you've got a genuinely quick car!!!

Incidentally the 911 driver had the last laugh, he came back with a Corvette Z06 and "whopped my candy ***" above 70 mph That was an amazing sight and sound!!

RobEvo5

iTrader: (9)

Having had several M3's and Scoob in various guises, I would agree to a point, but if you moved that band higher up it would be a different story.

Even a E36 M3 Evo is limited to 155mph. It has 6 gears and will pull 155mph in its power band in 5th. Its all about the right gear in an M3. Drop to 3rd gear at 80mph and you have lift off too 100mph, then ****** 4th to 130mph, then 5th to 155mph and a scoob will be looking in your rear view mirror quite quickly.

Oh and on a BMW 80mph is 80mph etc. Most scoobs and other cars I have owned tend to be recording about 10% lower than actual speed.

Nido

lol, at 100mph on my bike I'm just changing from 1st to 2nd

dunx

iTrader: (3)

HA ! Well 340 bhp didn't quite manage it for you, did it James.... ?

Dunx

See you in March for an upgrade..... Wahaha !

P.S. 350 bhp classic Type-RA ? Or a 500 bhp newage STI ?

P.P.S. Had a ride (launched !) in a 600 bhp Skyline and I thought the speedo was in kph 60 to 140 in seconds.... Hmmmmm

RobEvo5

iTrader: (9)

Now that must be fun and feel quick, and pulling some serious G's.