Dannybwoy

I cant beleive it got to this point in this thread for someone to actually mention calories!

Lol.

Simple food maths is this. To gain weight, you eat more calories than your body needs to do its daily activities, eat less calories than is required and you will lose weight, simple!

What i suggest for anyone wanting to lose weight, and is SERIOUS about doing it, not just cos they feel a bit fat after crimbo, is this. (it can be veiwed as a pain in the ****, but if you are serious, i think its worth it)

For 2 weeks, dont change your diet, instead carry a small notebook around and note down everything you eat, day to day as you normally would. Dont cheat and not eat something cos you are making a note of it, eat as you normally would and write it all down.

Also, weigh yourself at the start of the 2 weeks and take note of this also.

Then, at the end of the 2 weeks, take your note book and add up the calories in everything (most if not all food now a days have nutrition information on the sides of them, giving portion sizes etc, so its easy enough) and then see how many calories you were having each day. do this for everyday and then add up all 14 daily amounts to be able to find the average. Now you will have your average daily caloric intake for 2 weeks which will be a clear snapshot of your usual diet.

Also weigh yourself at the end fo the first 2 weeks and note this down.

Now, 1 pound of fat = 3500 calories. So over a full week, you need to eat 3500 less calories to lose 1 pound of bodyfat, which equals out quite conveniantly to 500 calories less per day. And now that you now how many calories, on average, you were eating everyday, you have a base figure to start with to remove 500 calories from. This new figure will be your daily calorific amount.

At the end of the initial 2 weeks you weighed yourself, now if this was more than the first weigh-in, the amount of calories you were eating was obviously too many and causing you to gain weight. So, taking your new lower (by 500 calories) daily calorie figure stick with that for another 2 weeks, then weigh yourself again.
If you had stayed the same during the initial 2 weeks, then you know that amount of calories is enough to maintain the bodyweight you are at.

So, for the next 2 weeks, take your calorie figure and take away another 500 calories. weigh yourself again etc and wait 2 weeks, theoretically you should now have lost 2lbs (following the theory above)

I know it looks like a bit of a ball-ache and long winded, but if you are reducing calories, how do you know how many to reduce by if you dont know how many you are having to start with? once you have done the first 2-4 weeks and got some base line figures to work from, you dont need to go through all that again.

Dont drop your calories too far as you will start eating into muscle tissue as well as fat, which isnt a good thing. I would recommend not to go below 1500 calories a day.

Obviously exercise will add to weight loss.

I would shoot for 2lbs a week, any more and you may struggle to keep it off once you are at your target weight, unless you plan on stayiing on a restrictive diet for ever. Your body always wants to maintian homeostasis (staying the same) so will fight you losing wieght/gaining wieght etc. If you do it quickly it will fight back more because it will more noticeable to your bodies system. Do it gradual and your body wont notice it as much and the weight is more likely to stay off.

I have been bodybuilding/dieting for the last 16 years, admittedly i have had a prolonged layoff this last few years, but dieting is dieting. Keep it simple, dont try to get all fancy with food science etc, just concentrate on calories.

Have a daily calorie amount each day and stick to it. You can then eat what you want within that limit, but fattier/simple carb dense foods will give you lower food/portion amount ratio so you will find yourself having less fatty/less sugary foods by default just so you have more food to eat each time you have a meal.

I think thats about it, lol. I follow this diet evertime i want/need to lose weight and it hasnt failed me yet.

Dan

Snazy

Why not just adopt a lower calorie diet in the first place?

As for not dropping too many calories, I dont seem to have started to fall apart just yet so im not sure how true this actually is.

Guess its each to their own really.

If your active, you might find you need more calories, some manage with less.

I wish anyone trying to lose weight all the best. As I reach the end of my abstainance I have learnt a lot about myself and my eating habits, and thankfully have a clean canvas to begin eating with again.
And after 8 weeks of abstainance, I have a lot more respect for food requirements lol

burning_diarohhea

thanks for the advise guys!!!!! i will give it a go and see what happens

i will keep u posted!!

Snazy

Good luck with it mate, like I say it all gets a bit political when it comes to weight loss. But just as a guide, I have now lost 53-54lbs in the past 7 weeks, so its more than possible.
Even with the VERY low calorie intake, I can still walk the dog 3 times a day 2-3 miles at a time, I can still run, and do other demanding activities.

I reckon I can do another 14-20lbs over the coming weeks, with the reintroduction of food, and upping my activity a little more.

Dannybwoy

Its called malnutrition and ask anyone who has ever suffered from anorexia, it aint nice. (not speaking from personal experiance, but having read a HELL of a lot on nutrition over the last 15 years, too much probably, lol)

It is easy to give yourself an eating disorder if you restrict food too much, and it can become obsessive and hard to go back to eating with some normality.

There is a cycle called the Krebbs cycle where in your body will convert stored protein in your body into carbohydrate to use as an energy source if you dont give it enough externally. To get to this point things have to be pretty extreme, but 250-500 calories a day is extreme in my opinion.

My last diet earlier this year, i lost 3 stone in 12 weeks. for the last 6 weeks i was on 1000 calories a day, and performing 2 aerobic sessions per day (exercise bike), each at 40 minutes. This was more than low enough for me, as in effect, taking into account the calories i was burning off while exercising i was on a lot lower than 1000 calories and i wasnt comfortable, mentally, knowing i was only on such a low amount of calories.

What i say, is stay safe while dieting, and if it isnt for a particular reason where in you need to be a certain weight for a specific day or event etc, then give yourself time and the weight will stay off easier.

I am not taking anything away from what you have done Snazy, cos it is an impressive amount of weight to lose in such a short amount of time, and if you still feel fine, then thats all good. And i really hope you manage to keep it off, but i have a feeling you will find you put more wight on than you anticipate when you start eating more calories.

The body will go into survival mode and store as many nutrients as it can, 'in case' it has to go through a period of starvation again, as you have been putting it through with such a low amount of calories. and you may find you put on weight faster than normal as your body over compensates.

I used to use the bodies reaction to food to my advantage when dieting for bodybuilding competitions. I used to diet strictly Sunday to Friday. Then on saturday i would eat whatever i liked. This would fool the body into thinking i was off my diet and think 'oh no, more food, i must increase my metabolic rate to burn off all these extra calories so i dont store is as excess'

i used to do that for one day, then the next day i would go back to my lower, diet, amount of calories but my metabolic rate would still be spinning fast and it would give my weight loss a kick start. It is also a great way to stave off stagnation on a strict diet, cos you know that once a week you have a treat day.

My body never reacted in the 'survival mode' way because i would never restrict my calories to the point where i was near enough starving myself. When bodybuilding dieting, my calories never dropped below 2000 a day, even in the last few weeks before a show.

burning_diarohhea

fair play that is huge loss of such a short time.......good luck as well

ex-webby

Danny

It really isn't as simple as you make out.

THe whole "More Calories eaten than used = weight gain / less = weight loss" is a massive over simplifaction.

To prove this point.

If you ate 1500 calories of pure butter at 11pm every night and no calories from anything else, you would add fat like crazy, even if you were expending 2000 calories a day.

What would happen in this situation is that your body would break down up to 500 calories worth of lean tissue (muscles) and use that as energy.

This in turn would mean that you would then use less calories a day (due to having less lean mass) and therefore your 1500 calorie intake would be a larger proportion of your required amount until eventually this equals out and your body is able to survive on 1500 calories a day and maintain its current weight.

This is how the body survives in starvation situations.

The worst part of this is that the body conditions itself to become more efficient at storing fat, so even less intaken calories are used for energy, and even more lean tissue.

-

Its an incredible complicated subject, and over simplification of it is what causes people to yo-yo diet, etc.. which they now think is more dangerous than simply remaining obese.

-

Its all about what kind of calories you eat, when you eat them, in what portions, what proportions of what kinds of fats, protein, carbs, etc, etc, etc.. and what excercise you do, and when.

I believe that each individual will have a different ideal regime depending on their body condition - it really isn't as simple as Work - Calorie intake = fat loss.

-

Edit : To be clear. What I'm saying is. What works for one person, might not work for another, and there are probably many things you would do as second nature (like eating your calories in a certain time frame / and from certain food types) which other people might not. So its important not to oversimplify incase someone says "ok great. One portion of fish and chips a day, a can of coke, and I'm rocking!"

Snazy

It is easy to give yourself an eating disorder if you restrict food too much, and it can become obsessive and hard to go back to eating with some normality.

Really? So im malnourished? Should that not have a negative impact on my health? Its called keytosis actually. Yes some medical critics dont like it, but others think its fine. Animal and some old tribes still survive on keytosis, as its a natural bodily function. So I think malnutrition is over doing it slightly.

There is a cycle called the Krebbs cycle where in your body will convert stored protein in your body into carbohydrate to use as an energy source if you dont give it enough externally. To get to this point things have to be pretty extreme, but 250-500 calories a day is extreme in my opinion.

Yes it is extreme, the usual is 500 a day, depends if I manage all my food pack or not. Its recommended of course that you do. But it works, and well. Im not ill, im fitter than I have been in ages, and have lots of energy.

My last diet earlier this year, i lost 3 stone in 12 weeks. for the last 6 weeks i was on 1000 calories a day, and performing 2 aerobic sessions per day (exercise bike), each at 40 minutes. This was more than low enough for me, as in effect, taking into account the calories i was burning off while exercising i was on a lot lower than 1000 calories and i wasnt comfortable, mentally, knowing i was only on such a low amount of calories.

Not comfortable mentally is not quite the same as physically. If you think and dwell on things, they WILL get the better of you. Same as desire and hunger.
As for doing anything aerobic or cardio, sadly at the start of the diet it was not possible for me to do anything like that, and with my injuries remaining, its unlikely I can return to the activities I want to for a while. Have already cancelled snowboarding.

What i say, is stay safe while dieting, and if it isnt for a particular reason where in you need to be a certain weight for a specific day or event etc, then give yourself time and the weight will stay off easier.

Totally agree with this mate, hence the level of reading up and checking with doctors before starting the program I would always recommend not pushing yourself too far. Had I felt any ill effects I would not recommend the program to anyone.

I am not taking anything away from what you have done Snazy, cos it is an impressive amount of weight to lose in such a short amount of time, and if you still feel fine, then thats all good. And i really hope you manage to keep it off, but i have a feeling you will find you put more wight on than you anticipate when you start eating more calories.

For reintroducing food, there may be slight gain, but I think in this case its unlikely. I needed a fresh start with weight, for health and social reasons, and I will be damned if im going back to that way of life again. I like to run 5-10kms a day, and sometimes squeeze a swim in to it all, and intend very much getting back there too Having trained for many years, I know what a sensible intake for me is. Just after the accident, health declined, and self interest disappeared, so now its time to reset the clock

The body will go into survival mode and store as many nutrients as it can, 'in case' it has to go through a period of starvation again, as you have been putting it through with such a low amount of calories. and you may find you put on weight faster than normal as your body over compensates.

I currently have no real interest in foods containing high calories or fats, the thought turns my stomach, and I intend on trying to maintain that mindset for as long as I can The next 12 weeks will be slowly reintroducing foods into my daily life, so there will be no high volumes of anything for the body to store, and it also helps me find time to discover my triggers too.
At the end of that, as I say, I get the feeling I will continue using food replacements for some meals, as its bloody convinient, and balanced lol.

I used to use the bodies reaction to food to my advantage when dieting for bodybuilding competitions. I used to diet strictly Sunday to Friday. Then on saturday i would eat whatever i liked. This would fool the body into thinking i was off my diet and think 'oh no, more food, i must increase my metabolic rate to burn off all these extra calories so i dont store is as excess'

i used to do that for one day, then the next day i would go back to my lower, diet, amount of calories but my metabolic rate would still be spinning fast and it would give my weight loss a kick start. It is also a great way to stave off stagnation on a strict diet, cos you know that once a week you have a treat day.

My body never reacted in the 'survival mode' way because i would never restrict my calories to the point where i was near enough starving myself. When bodybuilding dieting, my calories never dropped below 2000 a day, even in the last few weeks before a show.

Snazy

Spot on mate.

AllanB

Sensible balanced diet, drop the junky processed foods high in hydrogenated oils.

Start the day with carbs and some fat ( peanut byyer on brown bread is a good starter). Cards at mid day with loats of salad and protein in the evening again plenty of veg. Drink lots of water.

Excercise sensibly,try and walk each lunch time and excercise needed be painful. I used to do a 20-30 minute workout each day when I got back fromwork before eating and was fit as a fiddle in no time. Put some good music on as that always helps.

Avoid faddy diets and anything thats going to be a huge change of lifestyle as it will be harder to stick to in the long run.


AllanB

Dannybwoy

OK, i seem to be getting lynched here, lol.

I disagree with your 'it isnt as simple as you make out' statement.

I think it is you who is over complicating things in an attempt to try and prove me wrong. To use such extreme examples, of course, can be used with most theorys to try to dispell them, but who in thier right mind would eat 1500 calories worth of butter at 11pm, or have one portion of fish and chips and a can of coke a day and think this was a healthy way of eating.

Ask any nutritionist the easiest way to lose weight and they will tell you to eat less calories than you need to perform your day to day activities.

The reason most people get over weight is because they are eating to many calories (energy) than they are expanding in their daily routine. The body doesnt burn this excess off and it is stored as excess body weight.

I think you were all taking what i was saying the wrong way. I wasn't in any means advocating eating all 1500 calories made up of butter in an evening. I know the effects this would have on someone, and like you say, it wont be the desired one.

What i was trying to do was simplify things as much as possible. Most people are put off complicated diets where you cant eat one food with another and not to eat a certain food at a certain time etc, cos its too much messing around.

What i was talking about was finding out how many calories you need to maintain your bodyweight, then reducing that amount accordingly so you acheive a steady-ish weight loss of around 2lbs per week.

I would have thought that people would have understood i meant to make up your calorific amount with 'good' calories. Potatoes, white meat, fish, pasta, milk and eggs etc. All the staple food that mostly dont come in a can or a packet.But i am sorry i didnt make that clear enough.

You want to stay healthy when dieting, and you want your new lifestyle (way of eating) to be something that you will be able to maintain in the long run, not just for 2 or 3 months while losing weight, because as soon as the calories go back up so will your weight.

To say that everyone reacts differently in some minor respects is trues, but i think this is just a cop out on some peoples parts. If every persons body reacted differently, then the modern medical proffession would be a right old pickle because everyone would need individual, bespoke medicine especially for them and their body. The reason medicines work for everyone (everyone all but a very miniscule proportion of the population anyway) is because the human physiological systems reacts in very similar ways for everyone.

I think quoting a reference to a collection of people who have kept their gene pool quite exclusive and say that these people survive on a cetain diet isnt a very good example to give as these people will have it genetically bred into them to handle certain dietry conditions, the general population of great britain hasnt.

I dont think recommending eating 250-500 calories to someone is the best thing to do, as it can be very dangerous to eat such a low amount of calories over an extended period.

I have done some very questionable things with my body with things i have taken, diets i have followed over the years, and i know from that and from freinds following similar diest the effects it has on the body. For someone wanting a lifestyle change permanently, a 'quick fix' diet is definatley not the way to do it.

When i said i wasnt comfortable mentally eating such a low amount of calories, i didnt mean it was actually affecting my physical state of mind, what i meant was, i didnt like knowing i was only living off such a low amount of calories because of the detrimental effects this can have a the human body.

To sum up my point. I was recommending eating less calories (because this DOES work), excercising regularly and having patience. Give yourself maybe 5-6 months to lose 2 stone. It will be gradual, it wont be a shock to your system, it wont be such a drastic change to your lifestyle, you wont suddenly feel starving hungry all the time (which is also why a lot of people quits diets early on) and also, the weight is more likely to stay off long term. Your diet should be made up of healthy components, fresh fruit and veg, meat with a low fat content, fresh, low fat dairy products (barring any digestive disorders) and enough water every day to keep yourself hydrated.

Cut out simple sugars (except fructose which is naturally occuring in fruit), and fried food etc. These things CAN still be eaten from time to time, in moderation, just to keep yourself from going crazy if you have a real craving. Lets face it, who wants to live a life of total denial. the odd treat every now and again is good for the soul.

And Snazy, calm down mate, i wasnt having a dig at you, and i apologise if it came across that way. I just wouldnt advocate to eat such a low amount of calories thats all, but if you are ok with it, then thats good for you. I dont think i needed my post breaking down into segments and then pulled to peices.

Dannybwoy

On a second note, i know i said it already, but not one time did i say to eat such a crazy f*cked up diet as the extreme examples used here.

I wasnt saying to have 1 meal a day and use up all your calories for the day in that one meal. You could if you wanted, but it would be silly cos the diet wouldnt work for other reasons (willpower being one of the biggest)

Diets DO need to be simple for the majority of people. Lay down a complicated diet infront of most people and they will give up before they have started. Keep it simple, understandable and easy to intergrate into thier lifestyle and most people will be succesful.

Snazy

I get where you're coming from Danny Honest

I do agree to a degree with what you say, but do think the method for the average person is a bit extreme.
If you have a physical goal, competition etc, then its all good. But present that to someone who just wants to lose 20lbs and they would think twice about bothering.

Simplifying things is what makes most people do things these days. The population are lazy, thats how they/we get like it in the first place.

Surely this is whats been said all along anyway

Some people just would not commit to such a strict regime.

Just one question though.
Surely 1000 calories a day and 80 mins of cardio is worse for you than 500 and less physical activity. I used to do just under 1000 a day at the gym (calculated, but not precise) in my cardio work out, so surely YOUR body was stripping itself the same way?

Dannybwoy

Yes mate, it WAS a bad thing to do, lol, and thats why i didnt like knowing what i was doing to myself and why i wouldnt advise for someone else to do it.

Toward the end i was having cold shivers, my hair (the little i have of it, lol) was becoming brittle and my skin was really dry. I had bad concentration and i was a little snappy, even though i was trying not to be. This was, i am certain, because of the low amount of calories and nutrients i was consuming. While i was doing this i was taking a good multi vitamin and mineral supplemnt also to ensure i was getting all my nutrients/trace elements etc, but it still did my body a bit of damage.

It was only ever intended to be a short term thing, in preparation for my honeymoon to America where i wanted to be in good shape (vain, i know, but hey!) and it worked. I went from 15'12" down to 12'11" in 12 weeks, then four weeks before the honeymoon i started bodybuilding, shifted my dietry emphasis and training (started weights and dropped the cardio) across to gaining muscle and four weeks later was back up to 15'6" on the wedding day, but with the exact same (or near as dammit) condition bodyfat wise. I could see all my abs, serratus, intercostals etc. I held that condition for another 4 weeks, then slowly it faded.

Now that is a bad thing to do. Drop 3 stone, then whack it all back on (admittedly in muscle, not fat) in less than a month!!

That isnt the way to go about losing weight long term.

I think we are in agreement then, that for the general populus, a slow, methodical diet is the way to go. Slowly reduce calories until you are losing the amount of weight you want, holdit there until you get to your target weight then accept you will never be able to eat the way you did before ad change your lifestyle.

Keep your diet healthy and partake in regular exercise, again building up your own ability to do more exercise if you aren't used to it.

I think that is what most people will advocate is a healthy, permanent way to lose weight. Not the way i did it, lol, which was just plain bad.

My next diet, starting after the new year is all mapped out. It is a long term thing, where in a am giving myself 2 months to slowly lose a stone, get back down to 14' and then start bodybuilding again with the veiw to compete next year or early 2009. But i am gonna take it slow and methodical this time.

We seem to have got into a bit of a debate here, and i apologise if i have come across confrontational at all, it was never my intention.

I wish everyone the best of luck and good health with thier diets.

Dan

Snazy

Good stuff mate But at the same time I would still recommend LighterLife to those in trouble with their weight and wanting a fresh start.

You say
Toward the end i was having cold shivers, my hair (the little i have of it, lol) was becoming brittle and my skin was really dry. I had bad concentration and i was a little snappy, even though i was trying not to be. This was, i am certain, because of the low amount of calories and nutrients i was consuming. While i was doing this i was taking a good multi vitamin and mineral supplemnt also to ensure i was getting all my nutrients/trace elements etc, but it still did my body a bit of damage.

This is what I mean, on this program I have suffered NONE of the above. Concentration is higher, energy levels higher, health much better etc, so I guess this goes to show that peoples bodies are different
What works for one, wont for another.

Saladdin Ayubi

Stephen, how are yoo doing mae friend? btw bro, mae name is Saladdin nae Abdul

Snazy, thae diet yoo are on seems very extreme bro, very small amount of cals a day doesn't seem right.

Good luck tae yoo all.

Ameen tae thae n peace oot bros.