Illegal undertaking ?
#32
Scooby Regular
You can, but theyd have to prove that you were driving carelessly. The act alone is not an offence. If you google this youll be able to find a House of Lords debate, between Lord Davies of Oldham and Lord Elton, about this very matter. The misconception is widely held, but the fact is that the act of overtaking on the near side is not against the law.
I would also bet good money that if you are pulled for 'undertaking', booked for 'careless driving' and the police pass it to the CPS for a prosecution, they are not going to throw in the towel when they get to court and admit they were being a bit OTT in prosecuting in the first place. They'll just bring out their video footage, show your undertake manouevre, you or your solicitor will argue that the move was justified and safe. Then the CPS solicitor will bring a traffic copper on to testify that the undertake he saw was, in his expert opinion, careless or unsafe as the the other driver could have easily pulled back into the slow lane not expecting anyone to be there undertaking him. The fact that they did not does not lessen the severity of the offence. The magistrates would agree with the CPS and police evidence, you go home with your own costs, CPS costs, a hefty fine guaranteed to be at least three figures, plus some licence busting points and most likely end up with a totting up ban if you're unlucky.
The CPS want EVERY driving offence to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. It pays their bills and meets their targets and the general driving public are easy pickings. Don't imagine there is any leniency in the system. There is not.
#33
I would also bet good money that if you are pulled for 'undertaking', booked for 'careless driving' and the police pass it to the CPS for a prosecution, they are not going to throw in the towel when they get to court and admit they were being a bit OTT in prosecuting in the first place. They'll just bring out their video footage, show your undertake manouevre, you or your solicitor will argue that the move was justified and safe. Then the CPS solicitor will bring a traffic copper on to testify that the undertake he saw was, in his expert opinion, careless or unsafe as the the other driver could have easily pulled back into the slow lane not expecting anyone to be there undertaking him. The fact that they did not does not lessen the severity of the offence. The magistrates would agree with the CPS and police evidence, you go home with your own costs, CPS costs, a hefty fine guaranteed to be at least three figures, plus some licence busting points and most likely end up with a totting up ban if you're unlucky.
The CPS want EVERY driving offence to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. It pays their bills and meets their targets and the general driving public are easy pickings. Don't imagine there is any leniency in the system. There is not.
The CPS want EVERY driving offence to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. It pays their bills and meets their targets and the general driving public are easy pickings. Don't imagine there is any leniency in the system. There is not.
I am by the way predominantly a defence Barrister and always (unless it's a blantantly obvious case of dangerous driving) advise my instructing solicitors to obtain an independent experts report. Sometimes they help, sometimes they don't but you have to try.
My late father left the police force over 20 years ago but some of his former colleagues only retired very recently - they have all said how things have changed with CPS policies etc. Previously the police could use their discretion and many 'older' officers still try to do so. But now everything has to go to the CPS for pre-charge advice and this has taken away alot of discretion.
Doesn't mean though that you won't find good representation who will fight your corner for you!
#34
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I always check rearview & passenger mirror before pulling in to left hand lane. Doesn't everyone Major difference with me though is that I don't sit in the middle f*cking lane for hours on end
TX.
TX.
But just think what would it be like if everyone could overtake on any side ? It would make your driving just that much more uncomfortable because you'd have to pay twice as much attention - some people just have too slow reaction times to pay much more attention ( like people in their 80's who still drive ), so no doubt the accident rate would increase dramatically if it was the case.
#35
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I've heard that the Police need an independant witness to prove Dangerous Driving ie can't just be the word of the Police & nowt else? True or not?
TX.
TX.
The two offences that you could be charged with are:
1. Careless/Inconsiderate Driving - where your driving standard falls below that of a reasonable, competent and prudent driver.
2. Dangerous Driving - where your driving falls FAR below that of a reasonable, competent and prudent driver.
1. Careless/Inconsiderate Driving - where your driving standard falls below that of a reasonable, competent and prudent driver.
2. Dangerous Driving - where your driving falls FAR below that of a reasonable, competent and prudent driver.
#36
When I give advice, I always try to take into account not only whether or not the officers involved are traffic officers (who do have far more extensive training than bog standard officers) and the experience of the officers.
If the evidence is that of experienced and highly trained officers, then I'm more likely to advise that a jury will accept what they say. But however, if they're young inexperienced beat officers, well I rub my hands at the prospect of cross-examining them they can be so easy to wind up and tend to be the officers who exaggerate!!
#37
Can anybody explain to me why it is against the law to pass somebody using the left lane of a dual carriageway.
Surely if they use their mirrors before changing lanes it is not a problem, and if they don't, you will crash into them regardless of whether you pass on their left or their right.
Is it to do with history or something?
Surely if they use their mirrors before changing lanes it is not a problem, and if they don't, you will crash into them regardless of whether you pass on their left or their right.
Is it to do with history or something?
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SeanG
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20 April 2001 11:24 AM