Gordon Brown = Knob Jockious Maximus
06 January 2008, 10:57 AM
#31
I think that your responses represent a fairly good re-writing of history. To describe the Major/Lamont as good stewardship is laughable 'they realised their mistake and took strides to rectify the errors', if by this you mean, we got effectively thrown out of the ERM, thus leaving their economic policy in tatters. What came after can ONLY have been an upturn, given we'd reached rock bottom the only way was up. It's like saying Hitler left Germany a great economic legacy after the second world war.
As for the 10 years of Blair/Brown, why do you only want to focus on the negatives? Why not bring some balance to your post by noting some of the good things that have happened.
As for being a Tory, I've never voted for them in the past, but as I said I will next time around. I think 10 years is long enough for any government. For real change to happen a new government is needed.
As for the 10 years of Blair/Brown, why do you only want to focus on the negatives? Why not bring some balance to your post by noting some of the good things that have happened.
As for being a Tory, I've never voted for them in the past, but as I said I will next time around. I think 10 years is long enough for any government. For real change to happen a new government is needed.
06 January 2008, 12:03 PM
#32
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 6,806
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Martin - I struggle to see how Labour can be praised for maintaining a benign econcomy against a backdrop of no global recessions - i.e. we are to a fair extent a proxy for the wider global economy. We appear to have done better over the last 10 years as Brown has hosed huge amounts into the public sector. It's easy to make an economy look good doing that - the problem is the massive debt we've now got when things are looking uncertain when, by his own Golden rules, Brown should have been paying off debt through a period of prosperity.
We now pay record levels of tax and live in an environment of shocking spin and lies. (e.g. this week again we saw spurious claims about reducing unemployment when in reality it's got worse - they just re-labelled them as disability claimants etc - they don't actually know how many people are coming into the country, so how can they so stridently make claims on levels of unemployment?). They lost it for me with the latest manifesto commitment broken (referendum on Europe). I'm sill amazed the population put up with the 1% increase in NI after the promise not to raise income tax.
If Brown and his team were in charge of a plc they'd have been fired years ago for poor stewardship and lack of accurate reporting.
Gordon
We now pay record levels of tax and live in an environment of shocking spin and lies. (e.g. this week again we saw spurious claims about reducing unemployment when in reality it's got worse - they just re-labelled them as disability claimants etc - they don't actually know how many people are coming into the country, so how can they so stridently make claims on levels of unemployment?). They lost it for me with the latest manifesto commitment broken (referendum on Europe). I'm sill amazed the population put up with the 1% increase in NI after the promise not to raise income tax.
If Brown and his team were in charge of a plc they'd have been fired years ago for poor stewardship and lack of accurate reporting.
Gordon
06 January 2008, 12:08 PM
#33
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Martin - I struggle to see how Labour can be praised for maintaining a benign econcomy against a backdrop of no global recessions - i.e. we are to a fair extent a proxy for the wider global economy. We appear to have done better over the last 10 years as Brown has hosed huge amounts into the public sector. It's easy to make an economy look good doing that - the problem is the massive debt we've now got when things are looking uncertain when, by his own Golden rules, Brown should have been paying off debt through a period of prosperity.
We now pay record levels of tax and live in an environment of shocking spin and lies. (e.g. this week again we saw spurious claims about reducing unemployment when in reality it's got worse - they just re-labelled them as disability claimants etc - they don't actually know how many people are coming into the country, so how can they so stridently make claims on levels of unemployment?). They lost it for me with the latest manifesto commitment broken (referendum on Europe). I'm sill amazed the population put up with the 1% increase in NI after the promise not to raise income tax.
If Brown and his team were in charge of a plc they'd have been fired years ago for poor stewardship and lack of accurate reporting.
Gordon
We now pay record levels of tax and live in an environment of shocking spin and lies. (e.g. this week again we saw spurious claims about reducing unemployment when in reality it's got worse - they just re-labelled them as disability claimants etc - they don't actually know how many people are coming into the country, so how can they so stridently make claims on levels of unemployment?). They lost it for me with the latest manifesto commitment broken (referendum on Europe). I'm sill amazed the population put up with the 1% increase in NI after the promise not to raise income tax.
If Brown and his team were in charge of a plc they'd have been fired years ago for poor stewardship and lack of accurate reporting.
Gordon
One thing I think you got wrong, our economy HAS been strong and it HAS done so through a global show down, we have for 10 years ourperformed most industrialised nations.
06 January 2008, 12:13 PM
#34
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To say that the Tories created a strong economy in the mid 90's mindbogglingly inaccurate.
No positve differences? Really? Come off it!
06 January 2008, 12:59 PM
#35
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Martin 2005,
It is indeed true that NL inherited a well ordered and strong economy. Flash however and your hero between them have created what appeared to be a strong economy because people were encouraged to buy buy buy with cheap money on their credit cards running up some enormous debts. At the same time the parlous pair and their backside kissing cronies were chucking our money away on useless projects and beaurocratic organisations which have hindered our public services and wasted their money on their own obscene salaries.
At the same Time, Flash has been borrowing money at an unforeseen rate such that they have been exceeding this country's borrowing limits and throughout the whole period of their governrment they have put nothing aside towards a "rainy day". How they can guarantee Northern Rock for up to £57 billion of our money is betond comprehension. If the world goes into recession after all we will be well and truly in the "dwang" We can expect to be in for yet another wave of swingeing tax increases in every possible direction!
History shows that a Labour administration has always screwed the economy as well as created increased taxes whereas in spite of the ERM debacle the Conservatives have always run the economy considerably better and with reduced taxes overall. I know who I would prefer to trust!
Les
It is indeed true that NL inherited a well ordered and strong economy. Flash however and your hero between them have created what appeared to be a strong economy because people were encouraged to buy buy buy with cheap money on their credit cards running up some enormous debts. At the same time the parlous pair and their backside kissing cronies were chucking our money away on useless projects and beaurocratic organisations which have hindered our public services and wasted their money on their own obscene salaries.
At the same Time, Flash has been borrowing money at an unforeseen rate such that they have been exceeding this country's borrowing limits and throughout the whole period of their governrment they have put nothing aside towards a "rainy day". How they can guarantee Northern Rock for up to £57 billion of our money is betond comprehension. If the world goes into recession after all we will be well and truly in the "dwang" We can expect to be in for yet another wave of swingeing tax increases in every possible direction!
History shows that a Labour administration has always screwed the economy as well as created increased taxes whereas in spite of the ERM debacle the Conservatives have always run the economy considerably better and with reduced taxes overall. I know who I would prefer to trust!
Les
06 January 2008, 01:05 PM
#36
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Martin 2005,
It is indeed true that NL inherited a well ordered and strong economy. Flash however and your hero between them have created what appeared to be a strong economy because people were encouraged to buy buy buy with cheap money on their credit cards running up some enormous debts. At the same time the parlous pair and their backside kissing cronies were chucking our money away on useless projects and beaurocratic organisations which have hindered our public services and wasted their money on their own obscene salaries.
At the same Time, Flash has been borrowing money at an unforeseen rate such that they have been exceeding this country's borrowing limits and throughout the whole period of their governrment they have put nothing aside towards a "rainy day". How they can guarantee Northern Rock for up to £57 billion of our money is betond comprehension. If the world goes into recession after all we will be well and truly in the "dwang" We can expect to be in for yet another wave of swingeing tax increases in every possible direction!
History shows that a Labour administration has always screwed the economy as well as created increased taxes whereas in spite of the ERM debacle the Conservatives have always run the economy considerably better and with reduced taxes overall. I know who I would prefer to trust!
Les
It is indeed true that NL inherited a well ordered and strong economy. Flash however and your hero between them have created what appeared to be a strong economy because people were encouraged to buy buy buy with cheap money on their credit cards running up some enormous debts. At the same time the parlous pair and their backside kissing cronies were chucking our money away on useless projects and beaurocratic organisations which have hindered our public services and wasted their money on their own obscene salaries.
At the same Time, Flash has been borrowing money at an unforeseen rate such that they have been exceeding this country's borrowing limits and throughout the whole period of their governrment they have put nothing aside towards a "rainy day". How they can guarantee Northern Rock for up to £57 billion of our money is betond comprehension. If the world goes into recession after all we will be well and truly in the "dwang" We can expect to be in for yet another wave of swingeing tax increases in every possible direction!
History shows that a Labour administration has always screwed the economy as well as created increased taxes whereas in spite of the ERM debacle the Conservatives have always run the economy considerably better and with reduced taxes overall. I know who I would prefer to trust!
Les
We aren't going to agree on this are we?
06 January 2008, 01:16 PM
#38
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Minimum wage
Millions of new jobs
Economic stablity
Millions of children lifted out of poverty
Low inflation and interest rates
Thousands of new Doctors, Nurses and Teachers
Hospital waiting list dramatically reduced
New hospitals
Winter payments to pensioners
Peace in Northern Ireland
I know it not all be great and there's loads of things that could/should have been done better. But you'd have to be fairly blinded by your own hyperbole not to be able to think of anything positive.
Where is the balance in this place?
06 January 2008, 05:32 PM
#39
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Epsom
Posts: 5,832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Martin - why dont you move to Cuba? You'd love it there.
As for your points made with an infantile understanding...
1) Minimum wage reduces employment ( hence more people on benefits hence BAD for the country)
2) Jobs are created by companies not Governments - unless you are referring to the non productive civil servants who are a DRAIN on the economy
3) Economic stability - how does rising tax take, and ballooning public debt = stability or have you just redefined the word NuLabia stylee?
4) Millions more were lifted out of "true" poverty in China, in fact more than in any other time in history thanks to capitalism NOT government statist initiatives
5) Interest rates are down to the Bank of England
6) New doctors and nurses and teachers delivering a worse and worse service - Yep thats progress the Labour way! Poor exam results, hospital infections and incompetence rife throughout
7) Waiting lists reduced by taking wheels of a trolley and putting a curtain up - Now they arent in casulty anymore - target met comrade! People on waiting lists to go on waiting lists - the absolute worst type of propoganda as people die unnecessarily
8) New hospitals paid for with PFI racking up HUGE liabilities for the next 50 years - jam today and stuff the cost
9) Maybe if they werent taxed as much and there was more incentive to save and be self supporting this wouldnt be necessary hmmm?
10) Peace brokered by John Major
You socialist apologists make me fvcking puke with your distortion of reality as people suffer and die through this bullsh1t propoganda. As I said before sod off to Cuba or Venezula - socialist paradises both!
As for your points made with an infantile understanding...
1) Minimum wage reduces employment ( hence more people on benefits hence BAD for the country)
2) Jobs are created by companies not Governments - unless you are referring to the non productive civil servants who are a DRAIN on the economy
3) Economic stability - how does rising tax take, and ballooning public debt = stability or have you just redefined the word NuLabia stylee?
4) Millions more were lifted out of "true" poverty in China, in fact more than in any other time in history thanks to capitalism NOT government statist initiatives
5) Interest rates are down to the Bank of England
6) New doctors and nurses and teachers delivering a worse and worse service - Yep thats progress the Labour way! Poor exam results, hospital infections and incompetence rife throughout
7) Waiting lists reduced by taking wheels of a trolley and putting a curtain up - Now they arent in casulty anymore - target met comrade! People on waiting lists to go on waiting lists - the absolute worst type of propoganda as people die unnecessarily
8) New hospitals paid for with PFI racking up HUGE liabilities for the next 50 years - jam today and stuff the cost
9) Maybe if they werent taxed as much and there was more incentive to save and be self supporting this wouldnt be necessary hmmm?
10) Peace brokered by John Major
You socialist apologists make me fvcking puke with your distortion of reality as people suffer and die through this bullsh1t propoganda. As I said before sod off to Cuba or Venezula - socialist paradises both!
06 January 2008, 07:55 PM
#40
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Martin - why dont you move to Cuba? You'd love it there.
As for your points made with an infantile understanding...
1) Minimum wage reduces employment ( hence more people on benefits hence BAD for the country)
2) Jobs are created by companies not Governments - unless you are referring to the non productive civil servants who are a DRAIN on the economy
3) Economic stability - how does rising tax take, and ballooning public debt = stability or have you just redefined the word NuLabia stylee?
4) Millions more were lifted out of "true" poverty in China, in fact more than in any other time in history thanks to capitalism NOT government statist initiatives
5) Interest rates are down to the Bank of England
6) New doctors and nurses and teachers delivering a worse and worse service - Yep thats progress the Labour way! Poor exam results, hospital infections and incompetence rife throughout
7) Waiting lists reduced by taking wheels of a trolley and putting a curtain up - Now they arent in casulty anymore - target met comrade! People on waiting lists to go on waiting lists - the absolute worst type of propoganda as people die unnecessarily
8) New hospitals paid for with PFI racking up HUGE liabilities for the next 50 years - jam today and stuff the cost
9) Maybe if they werent taxed as much and there was more incentive to save and be self supporting this wouldnt be necessary hmmm?
10) Peace brokered by John Major
You socialist apologists make me fvcking puke with your distortion of reality as people suffer and die through this bullsh1t propoganda. As I said before sod off to Cuba or Venezula - socialist paradises both!
As for your points made with an infantile understanding...
1) Minimum wage reduces employment ( hence more people on benefits hence BAD for the country)
2) Jobs are created by companies not Governments - unless you are referring to the non productive civil servants who are a DRAIN on the economy
3) Economic stability - how does rising tax take, and ballooning public debt = stability or have you just redefined the word NuLabia stylee?
4) Millions more were lifted out of "true" poverty in China, in fact more than in any other time in history thanks to capitalism NOT government statist initiatives
5) Interest rates are down to the Bank of England
6) New doctors and nurses and teachers delivering a worse and worse service - Yep thats progress the Labour way! Poor exam results, hospital infections and incompetence rife throughout
7) Waiting lists reduced by taking wheels of a trolley and putting a curtain up - Now they arent in casulty anymore - target met comrade! People on waiting lists to go on waiting lists - the absolute worst type of propoganda as people die unnecessarily
8) New hospitals paid for with PFI racking up HUGE liabilities for the next 50 years - jam today and stuff the cost
9) Maybe if they werent taxed as much and there was more incentive to save and be self supporting this wouldnt be necessary hmmm?
10) Peace brokered by John Major
You socialist apologists make me fvcking puke with your distortion of reality as people suffer and die through this bullsh1t propoganda. As I said before sod off to Cuba or Venezula - socialist paradises both!
The above is the biggest distortion of facts I have every read.
PS I'm no sodding socialist, which is just proof you haven't read any of my post properly
06 January 2008, 08:00 PM
#41
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Disco, Disco!
Posts: 21,825
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
martin, how/what makes this the biggest distortion of facts you have ever read, please explain, warren has taken the time to write this and it does not look far off of the mark so where is he so wrong then?
Last edited by The Zohan; 06 January 2008 at 08:06 PM.
06 January 2008, 08:10 PM
#42
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just wanted some balance in this thread, basically I was challenging the view that the current government has doing nothing of value, which obviously can't be true.
I'm a bit miffed that if you put across a balanced political view on here you get labelled a socialist, this I think says more about the mentality of people on here than anything.
But if I have to do the point by point rebuttle of then here goes....
06 January 2008, 08:34 PM
#43
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Martin - why dont you move to Cuba? You'd love it there.
As for your points made with an infantile understanding...
1) Minimum wage reduces employment ( hence more people on benefits hence BAD for the country)
2) Jobs are created by companies not Governments - unless you are referring to the non productive civil servants who are a DRAIN on the economy
3) Economic stability - how does rising tax take, and ballooning public debt = stability or have you just redefined the word NuLabia stylee?
4) Millions more were lifted out of "true" poverty in China, in fact more than in any other time in history thanks to capitalism NOT government statist initiatives
5) Interest rates are down to the Bank of England
6) New doctors and nurses and teachers delivering a worse and worse service - Yep thats progress the Labour way! Poor exam results, hospital infections and incompetence rife throughout
7) Waiting lists reduced by taking wheels of a trolley and putting a curtain up - Now they arent in casulty anymore - target met comrade! People on waiting lists to go on waiting lists - the absolute worst type of propoganda as people die unnecessarily
8) New hospitals paid for with PFI racking up HUGE liabilities for the next 50 years - jam today and stuff the cost
9) Maybe if they werent taxed as much and there was more incentive to save and be self supporting this wouldnt be necessary hmmm?
10) Peace brokered by John Major
You socialist apologists make me fvcking puke with your distortion of reality as people suffer and die through this bullsh1t propoganda. As I said before sod off to Cuba or Venezula - socialist paradises both!
As for your points made with an infantile understanding...
1) Minimum wage reduces employment ( hence more people on benefits hence BAD for the country)
2) Jobs are created by companies not Governments - unless you are referring to the non productive civil servants who are a DRAIN on the economy
3) Economic stability - how does rising tax take, and ballooning public debt = stability or have you just redefined the word NuLabia stylee?
4) Millions more were lifted out of "true" poverty in China, in fact more than in any other time in history thanks to capitalism NOT government statist initiatives
5) Interest rates are down to the Bank of England
6) New doctors and nurses and teachers delivering a worse and worse service - Yep thats progress the Labour way! Poor exam results, hospital infections and incompetence rife throughout
7) Waiting lists reduced by taking wheels of a trolley and putting a curtain up - Now they arent in casulty anymore - target met comrade! People on waiting lists to go on waiting lists - the absolute worst type of propoganda as people die unnecessarily
8) New hospitals paid for with PFI racking up HUGE liabilities for the next 50 years - jam today and stuff the cost
9) Maybe if they werent taxed as much and there was more incentive to save and be self supporting this wouldnt be necessary hmmm?
10) Peace brokered by John Major
You socialist apologists make me fvcking puke with your distortion of reality as people suffer and die through this bullsh1t propoganda. As I said before sod off to Cuba or Venezula - socialist paradises both!
, I'll just deal with facts whilst you deal in tabloid headlines1. Nonsense and proved to be nonsense, I remember this was the Tory big arguement against it (now it's their policy too). Employment rates have gone up significantly since it was introduce.
2. Indeed jobs are created by companies, but government creates the conditions, if economy is booming then people spend money and create jobs, if the government screw the economy (like during our menbership of ERM) then people stop spending and lots of people lose their jobs.
3. Again your are just wrong, it is absolutely unpresedented for the UK economy to have had some many years of uninterupted growth, and low inflation, just check the stats they dont lie.
4. Err I assume that this comment was entirely based upon your incorrect view that I'm some sort of Marxist. Actually whilst we're on the subject the current government can hardly be described as left wing. People have been lifted out of poverty it's just a fact. It's also true that the redistribution of wealth has largely been responsible for this.
5. Yes interest rates are down to the BOE, so I guess we've found something about this government you like then, as it was their decision to do this.
6. Well thats just Daily Mail headlines you've quoted there. I share lots of peoples frustration at the lack of efficiency in our public services, but everytime someone tries to reform one some union or other vested interest starts screaming. But there has been a significant improvement. As for exam results, again results have been steadily improving in most if not all areas so not sure why you wrote that.
7. Again thats just Daily Mail hyperbole, waiting lists are down, it's just a fact.
8. I want more private money ion our public services, competition drives improved results (something I'm sure you must agree with)
9. So are you saying the payment aren't being made?
10. This is frankly laughable, yes John Major was a key figure in the early days of the process, but come on; peace was finally achieved 10 years later, thanks to the HUGE efforts of Blair, dont take my word for it, the participants have all been lavish in their thanks and praise for his tireless efforts.
Finally just because someone doesn't share the same political outlook as you doesn't make them a socialist. I have always been a fierce critic of the politics of envy, socialism doesn't work, never has and never will. I am and will remain very much a social democrat and as I have said before will vote Tory at the next GE (assuming they dont lurch back to the right).
Last edited by Martin2005; 06 January 2008 at 08:48 PM.
06 January 2008, 08:53 PM
#44
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Epsom
Posts: 5,832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you are as clueless as you are outraged
Loving your inference in point 3 for example. You assume that because the global economy has been good, this is down to Labour? In fact over the last ten years the UK competiveness rating has fallen from 7th to 14th ie we've done WORSE than everyone else in this period and our competiveness has fallen - wait ! whats this? productivity is down too! The one thing Brown said he should be judged on in 1997. That is not a stable and good economy, it is a failing one, the global economy has masked Labours incompetence
Point 6 improving exam results - again you are clueless, results are better because they are easier. Just blatent manipulation to achieve the five year tractor production, sorry, education target
Point 7 waiting lists down - this really goes to show you have no understanding of how the comrades meet their targets - I explained before how simply pulling a curtain across a casualty department means they have met their target
You clearly are unable to separate fact from progaganda
Loving your inference in point 3 for example. You assume that because the global economy has been good, this is down to Labour? In fact over the last ten years the UK competiveness rating has fallen from 7th to 14th ie we've done WORSE than everyone else in this period and our competiveness has fallen - wait ! whats this? productivity is down too! The one thing Brown said he should be judged on in 1997. That is not a stable and good economy, it is a failing one, the global economy has masked Labours incompetence
Point 6 improving exam results - again you are clueless, results are better because they are easier. Just blatent manipulation to achieve the five year tractor production, sorry, education target
Point 7 waiting lists down - this really goes to show you have no understanding of how the comrades meet their targets - I explained before how simply pulling a curtain across a casualty department means they have met their target
You clearly are unable to separate fact from progaganda
06 January 2008, 09:05 PM
#46
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you are as clueless as you are outraged
Loving your inference in point 3 for example. You assume that because the global economy has been good, this is down to Labour? In fact over the last ten years the UK competiveness rating has fallen from 7th to 14th ie we've done WORSE than everyone else in this period and our competiveness has fallen - wait ! whats this? productivity is down too! The one thing Brown said he should be judged on in 1997. That is not a stable and good economy, it is a failing one, the global economy has masked Labours incompetence
Point 6 improving exam results - again you are clueless, results are better because they are easier. Just blatent manipulation to achieve the five year tractor production, sorry, education target
Point 7 waiting lists down - this really goes to show you have no understanding of how the comrades meet their targets - I explained before how simply pulling a curtain across a casualty department means they have met their target
You clearly are unable to separate fact from progaganda
Loving your inference in point 3 for example. You assume that because the global economy has been good, this is down to Labour? In fact over the last ten years the UK competiveness rating has fallen from 7th to 14th ie we've done WORSE than everyone else in this period and our competiveness has fallen - wait ! whats this? productivity is down too! The one thing Brown said he should be judged on in 1997. That is not a stable and good economy, it is a failing one, the global economy has masked Labours incompetence
Point 6 improving exam results - again you are clueless, results are better because they are easier. Just blatent manipulation to achieve the five year tractor production, sorry, education target
Point 7 waiting lists down - this really goes to show you have no understanding of how the comrades meet their targets - I explained before how simply pulling a curtain across a casualty department means they have met their target
You clearly are unable to separate fact from progaganda
So in a nutshell, any thing good that has happened is down to outside influence, anything bad is the governments fault, and any facts that dont support your view are some sort of marxist plot.
06 January 2008, 09:20 PM
#47
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Epsom
Posts: 5,832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Independence of BoE was good even if GB did it to meet EMU regulations, and the licencing laws were a good change but cant think of anything else they did that was good for the country.
As for facts, your post consisted of points of spin and was absent of any facts
As for socialism, the sooner it dies a death the better for everyone
As for facts, your post consisted of points of spin and was absent of any facts
As for socialism, the sooner it dies a death the better for everyone
06 January 2008, 10:50 PM
#49
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
07 January 2008, 12:10 AM
#50
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 6,806
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Martin whatever version of spin you put on Flash & El Presidente they have screwed us all quite royally.
Unfortunately world events have masked the effects very well and only now are the cracks starting to split wide enough open for all to see.
We have no borders, we cannot even begin to count the immigrants and the drain on our economy and the burden on our community infrastructure.
Minimum wage has caused more headaches than it solved. In fact it has caused a lot of businesses to go under.
Education is an absolute joke. As a Father I see only too well how rediculous our system has become. Then unless you are very well off you virtually need a second mortgage for them to go to Uni.
Health well plenty has been mentioned above and last year we lost an Aunt through the incompetance and bad hygene now practised in our hospitals. Now whatever spin you want to add our Aunt will not be coming back. More importantly the hospital concerned even admitted it's culpability but money from the Trust isnt going to help her Partner or her son.
Law & Order
As I recall El Presidente wanted to take the Tory line and be tough on crime. Well that just plain hasnt happened. The headlines in any local paper show just how tough (NOT) Labour is on crime. In fact Labour has the audacity to pay crims compensation to let them out early FFS.
As for the big give away in Europe and the supposedly guaranteed referendum that never happened. Flash as stupid as he is, knows he will be voted out at the first opportunity and the referendum would only have made that a damn site quicker.
Whilst I and millions of others will glad you're not voting Labour please please do not make out these idiots have done us any great favours because the reality is they have not
Unfortunately world events have masked the effects very well and only now are the cracks starting to split wide enough open for all to see.
We have no borders, we cannot even begin to count the immigrants and the drain on our economy and the burden on our community infrastructure.
Minimum wage has caused more headaches than it solved. In fact it has caused a lot of businesses to go under.
Education is an absolute joke. As a Father I see only too well how rediculous our system has become. Then unless you are very well off you virtually need a second mortgage for them to go to Uni.
Health well plenty has been mentioned above and last year we lost an Aunt through the incompetance and bad hygene now practised in our hospitals. Now whatever spin you want to add our Aunt will not be coming back. More importantly the hospital concerned even admitted it's culpability but money from the Trust isnt going to help her Partner or her son.
Law & Order
As I recall El Presidente wanted to take the Tory line and be tough on crime. Well that just plain hasnt happened. The headlines in any local paper show just how tough (NOT) Labour is on crime. In fact Labour has the audacity to pay crims compensation to let them out early FFS.
As for the big give away in Europe and the supposedly guaranteed referendum that never happened. Flash as stupid as he is, knows he will be voted out at the first opportunity and the referendum would only have made that a damn site quicker.
Whilst I and millions of others will glad you're not voting Labour please please do not make out these idiots have done us any great favours because the reality is they have not
07 January 2008, 08:49 AM
#52
Pontificating
10. This is frankly laughable, yes John Major was a key figure in the early days of the process, but come on; peace was finally achieved 10 years later, thanks to the HUGE efforts of Blair, dont take my word for it, the participants have all been lavish in their thanks and praise for his tireless efforts.
I rather think they would thank Clinton for his HUGE efforts, spose Blair invited him so he can take some of the credit....
07 January 2008, 09:15 AM
#53
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Disco, Disco!
Posts: 21,825
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
07 January 2008, 09:41 AM
#54
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Zed Ess Won Hay Tee
Posts: 21,611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the min wage argument is flawed
its one of the reasons you are now paying more for things!
every time the min wage creeps up, the costs get passed back to the consumer.
its one of the reasons you are now paying more for things!
every time the min wage creeps up, the costs get passed back to the consumer.
07 January 2008, 08:16 PM
#56
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I seem to be the sole voice of balance and reasonableness in a sea of right wing, daily Mail Reading, nutters. This thread demonstrates what I've long believed, this country is becomming ungovernable. Too many people think that who ever shouts their opinion the loudest is right, the truth? well that does really matter anymore.
Last edited by Martin2005; 07 January 2008 at 08:35 PM.
07 January 2008, 08:34 PM
#57
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So you thank Clinton others on here Major nobody on here thanks Blair, well that just sums this thread up. Astonoshing lack of balance, and a great insight into what is motivating a lot of the comments on this thread.
07 January 2008, 08:43 PM
#58
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
07 January 2008, 10:10 PM
#59
Guest
Posts: n/a
I seem to be the sole voice of balance and reasonableness in a sea of right wing, daily Mail Reading, nutters. This thread demonstrates what I've long believed, this country is becomming ungovernable. Too many people think that who ever shouts their opinion the loudest is right, the truth? well that does really matter anymore.
Dave
07 January 2008, 10:40 PM
#60
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I for one like to think we have a democratic country and have read with interest all of this thread I will say that Tony Blair is not stupid he left as the going got tough and at the right time to fill his own pockets with speaches and trips galore around the world. On the subject of democracy why are we being led by "Flash" no one I know voted for him indeed a lot of labour supportors I know would not have voted for him in a million years and sure as eggs is eggs will vote him out ASAP, all arguments in this thread are valid it just depends what "SPIN" you put on them (another Labour favorite) the fact of the matter is we have ben robbed blind by "stealth" taxes which have caused lots of suffering especially in the older generations who struggle to survive on miserly pensions, in my opinion the only time government works is when its a hung parliament. It has always been true absolute power corrupts whether its by illegal or legal means (robbery or massive pay/pension rises) and lets not forget the nice extra sumer holidays they have now given themselves. I could go on and on and on but whats the point all parties are as bad as each other once in government.