Iain Young

Ordinary dvd is fine for me too, (and that's on a 42" HD plasma) especially when put through my upscaling dvd player. There really is not a vast difference between upscaled dvd and a hd-dvd/blu-ray disc. Certainly not enough to persuade me to upgrade at the moment...

bob269

I think MS should utilize the 17mil customer base and give them all free HD drives, then they could include it in future models without upsetting existing customers, those who already own the HD drive they could give some credit towards hardware/software, let's face it they can afford it from Halo sales alone

This would also solve the limited game capacity problem of the standard dvd

I think i'll email my mate Gatesey and suggest it

PeteBrant

See, people fail to understand a basic principle of marketing, especially in Home Electronics.

It is not *you* that decides what you buy - it is the manufacturers

The CRT television is all but dead. Very few manufactureres are making them any more because the return just isnt there. If your telly blows up tomorrow, there is every likelyhood you will buy eithe r aplasma or an LCD HD TV because thats pretty much all that Currys and Comet are stocking.

The same applies to BluRay/DVD players. We are still in the early adopter phase. BluRay players are around £2-300 now - The same as DVD players were in thier early adopter phase.

In a few years time, if your DVD player fails, you will be forced to buy a BluRay Player - Why? Because that's all that will be available. Economies of scale will mean that software and hardware prices will drop.

When you have bought your DVD player, what software are you going to buy? DVD or BluRay, when they are the same price?


It's happened lots of times before Black &White Vs Colour Tvs/ VHS vs DVD/ CRT vs LCD - Everytime the old technology os phased out whether yo ulike it or not.

Manufacturers have put too much money into BluRay for it to fail, and they will ensure it doesn't but not offering an alternative.

RoadrunnerV2

Another twist - MS not ruling out Blue-Ray add for the 360. Good bye HD-DVD!

MS: Blu-ray on Xbox 360 'possible' | Reg Hardware

Dracoro

I see what you are saying Pete, however DVD players (and CRT tvs) tend to last a long time so, unlike say cars, people are less "forced" into buying replacements unless they offer real benefits. PCD/Plasmas do this (larger screens, smaller depth, better pic quality etc.) and that's why people buy them. There are still LOADS of people (the vast majority) using CRT TVs and will only replace if either a) their TV breaks (unlikely) or b) the replacement offers significant benefits. The same goes for DVD/HD/BR players. Unlike LCD/Plasma vs CRT, the new HD/BR players don't offer significant benefits.

Are these HD/BR players backward compatible? i.e. do they play normal DVDs? This could make a real difference to whether they are successful.

and they also put too much money into betamax, video CD (those 12inch size things), minidisc and so on, for it to fail.

Anyway, I'm not saying it will fail, just that it will take a long time for people to buy them en masse and they have to be cheap. While players are over £100 for a player and discs are over £15 there will be a market for DVDs and there are loads of companies that will cash in on that. Once under £100 and discs under £10/15 then they can start phasing out DVDs.

Neanderthal

iTrader: (6)

They've probably been thinking that anyway, hence why the 360 has only ever had a DVD drive. Least if the HD DVD does go the way of the Betamax we're still left with a console that works and can be upgraded to the current standard.

PeteBrant

Yup, not only that - they upscale too.

bob269

Yes the players do play dvd, and most upscale the pic quality so in theory should be better than a standard dvd player.

it will be a few years yet until it's in the masses, a lot of people still own crt's, I know quite a few people both 360 and ps3 who use them with crt, it's one thing paying £2-300 for a console but not everybody can pay an additional £800+ for a decent HDTV.

A % of the ps3 owning guys the statatitions count as owning a bluray player still own crts so won't be able to benefit for now.

MS have always had the option of providing a plugin bluray drive, clever move by them which everway the format swings.

Another factor is unfortuanately piracy, this usually determines how well/quickly the formats become popular, after all those chinese dvd factories don't produce 100million dvds a month purely for data back up .

Initially bluray blanks were expensive (£15+) and HDDVD (£7), however afaik there still isnt a viable hddvd pc writer available, yet there are several manufacturers selling bluray writers, blanks are now approx bluray £7, and HDDVD £5, so the pc market could swing to bluray because of this also.

PS. The 12inch discs were Laser Discs

Geezer

But, everyone will have to have a digital ready TV by 2011. So, lots of people are gonna have to replace their tellies, and all that is available is panels of various flavours. Once you connect your non-upscaling DVD player to a HD panel, you soon see the limitations of DVD at those sizes, so your alternative? Buy a new upscaler, or by a Blu-Ray, which will have come down in price. It still holds true, people will have to adopt this technology.

Geezer

Iain Young

Not true. You can make your standard crt "digital ready" simply by buying an external freeview box for about £30. Most people when faced with paying £30 for an addon box or £800 for a new tv will choose the cheaper option. Also, what about all those people with Sky. They don't need to upgrade at all.

HD will become more common, but it'll be a few years yet before it is mainstream, (especially when the benefits really aren't that huge over dvd).

Dracoro

No they're not. CRT will work with digital tv (as it always has, just need a freeview box of somesort).

PeteBrant

This is my point - It's not that much anymore - You can get a decent Samsung 37" for £500 - and that is goinn to continue to drop - You will not have the option of buying a CRT at all before long.

Exactly the same is going to apply to BluRay. And its partially going to be driven by people wanting to ge tthe most out of thier shiny new TV's.

Anyhoo - you luddites can slum it with your standard def set ups for all I care, my Sky HD, PS3, 360 set up ensures that the majority of my viewing is HD

messiah

I think anyone using a 360 or PS3 without an HDTV is really missing out - the draw distance on games now reinforces the need for clear graphics for distant objects - I was really suffering on COD2 for while because the snipers were too far away for me see them properly in SD, I was having to wait for a muzzle flash before I got any indication where they were.

I think most people's inital perception of HD is that its not a great leap over SD - its only when you go back to SD after HD that you realise how bad it is and you'll watch anything on telly simply because its in HD, hell - I even watched Speed 2 over Christmas just cos it was in HD

I live close to Whitehaven, which is the first place in the UK to have its analogue transmitter switched off - there hasn't been a huge uproar about set top boxes not being compatible with their TV's, but HD set top boxes aren't expected for another 12 months yet IIRC.

bob269

I think the points are similar, yup you wont be able to buy a new crt soon, however crt's tend to last awhile and some people will wait until it blows up before spending anything on a new HDTV.

I'm also HD enabled

StickyMicky

40" sony lcd in asda today and i could have sworn the price said 595quid

probably only 720p mind, but still a nice price for a sony tv

bob269

Yeah, they are dropping nicely now, still need to keep an eye on the spec tho, stuff like 1080, high contrast ratio, number of hdmi ports, PC resolution, etc.

Borat_Drives_A_Scooby

Prices usually drop like that when a new range is about to be launched, Panasonics will be hitting the shop floor around march.

Looie

That point is only valid if you are a person who wants to play console games on your TV. I accept that lots of people do want that and are happy to pay through the nose for them, but I personally don't give a monkey's about console games and how they would look on my telly... I stopped playing with them when I found out about girls... Much more fun....

Until HD is freely available on the digital channel receivers (i.e. on freeview, not the set ups that require monthly fees to view them) then the vast majority of people won't give two hoots about it, or the kind of DVD players available, until their machine breaks down. Even then the cheapest price item will be what most buy as a replacement. As I'm typing this I'm trying to decide who of all my friends actually has a HD DVD player and TV and I can't think of anyone..........

I have a flat screen HD ready TV, but if HD is never shown on freeview - HD is an item that I will never use.... and I don't believe I am the only on who would say that either....

messiah

I fail to see what your argument against my statement is.

I was talking about games consoles and you go off on one about freeview

the 360 & PS3 are both HD sources and to experience the best from them requires a HDTV.

I agree with one point though - none of my friends have a HD DVD player either, they've all got PS3's... and a HDTV.

PeteBrant

WHy would you buy a HDTV and its perpensity for substandard SD pictures if you never intend to feed it a HD source?

But like buying an aeroplane and using it to drive on the pavement down to the shops every day.

bob269

Perhaps his CRT blew up, can't find one anywhere so had to buy an HDTV instead

I'm currently on virgin and they offer just 1 channel (BBC HD) for an extra £5 a month, Sky's HD isnt much better as most channels are just upscaled. It'll be another few years before HD TV is worth considering.

PeteBrant

I have a 42" SD plasma for sale!

Sky HD is great - especially if you like your football/documentaries. BBC HD is pretty good, most new shows are on it in HD, and next year they are going to put thier entire schedule out in HD. Plus of course Channel4HD has just started, plus the movie channels..

I love it - Is it worth the extra tenner a month? Possibly not at the moment. Does an extra tenner break the bank? Nope.

messiah

I think whether £10 a month is worth it for Sky HD is borderline at the moment, I've had it since may and have been impressed with some channels - History channel is quite good and I never used to watch it before I caught a couple of things from Anytime. Films are bit hit & miss, Pirates of the Carribean has pretty impressive PQ but other films like Armageddon which should be great in HD aren't any different from their SD counterparts.

BBC HD has by far the best PQ, and I hate to say it but the best thing I've seen in HD so far has been Eurovision...

Havent seen much sport as I dont have the package, but the football thats been on BBC has been impressive.

Geezer

Can you back that claim up? Most of the HD stuff on Sky is proper HD, (BBC, Sports, History, NG etc.). Maybe Sky One HD is, I don't know. The movies are a bit hit and miss, but I think that's more to do with the movie itself than how Sky are broadcasting, otherwise all the movies would be lacklustre, and some of them are stunning in HD.

The difference is quite clear, especially when you can flick between the SD equivalent to see.

Still, I agree £10 a month is a bit steep, but it has to start somewhere, and as Pete said, it hardly breaks the bank.

Neanderthal

iTrader: (6)

baring in mind Sky have now dropped the £10 extra for Sky+. upgrading to Sky HD isn't too bad.

Iain Young

Where did you hear that? On their website it still says that it's an extra £10 a month...

Sky HDTV - Order Online & Find Out How Much Sky High Definition TV costs

PeteBrant

If you upgrade to Sky HD, you get Sky+ for Free effectviely.

Neanderthal

iTrader: (6)

They dropped the Sky+ charge last year? i.e. you no longer have to subscribe to 2 premium channels. If you were paying the £10 extra for Sky+ then you should have had a letter about it?

Iain Young

Ok, so in effect they are still charging £10 for HD then (seeing as Sky+ is free), and my bill will go up by £10. Not worth it imo looking at the rubbish on those channels...

PeteBrant

That's exactly what we said from the start you nutter

It all depends what sort of things you are into - Is it worth it if you are into sports? Yes - Into Documentaries and nature programes? Yes - Into the odd film? Yes.

It isn't worth it if you are a Bravo/Ukgold/Terrestrial type of guy.