PeteBrant

As has already been pointed out - these decisions are based on need. - Besdies which, the reason she was on dialysis os because she did not qualify for a transplant.

People keep coming up with hypothetical situations that are never going to arise.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Pete yes I did, like I said, why is she here ? if her Visa ran out a year ago then she is here illegally, like the poor sod that got shot on the tube train who was here illegally as well, I suspect that there are more than two here.

She was granted a Visa for 5 years and was educated in this country and then decided not to go back, so you grant the concession, provide the education and then she kind of forgets to go home, then it becomes the National Health Services responsibility to treat her as otherwise we all look like a bunch of heartless *****, cant win really can we ?

jods

She went cattle class.

David Lock

Not very nice........

scoobynutta555

Yes they are based on need, as well as supply and demand. More illegals in the queue would I assume means it's more difficult for the legal population to access this equipment, as in all public facilities. Not-with-standing the fact that she is using resources that may be used elsewhere, or on other people.

From what I read on the case she was in need of a transplant, and assuming she stayed here would be on a list to receive a liver.

As someone said previously the NHS was formed to take care of UK residents, not The World's residents.

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

while I do not agree with the fact that someone who has contributed little or nothing to the economy should benefit from health care paid for by taxes, you have to think there are millions of feckless worthless Brits who do the same.
Maybe they should have a machine at the entrance where you swipe your NI card and depending on how much you have paid they calculate whether you are entitled to free treatment or subsidised treatment if you have not paid enough contributions. And if you have contributed nothing they take you out back and harvest you organs

scoobynutta555

I do have sympathy for that view to an extent. I've said before on here, free healthcare should be provided for those between 0-18 and 65+. Those able to work (and not in education) and between these ages should be made to pay top-up insurance.

jods

Exactly, cattle class is ****e - I always fly Premium and will upgrade to Upper class when I have accrued enough points.

Ho hum...

Klaatu

Well, we don't have all the facts however what facts we do have appears she had not dealt properly with immigration for the 6 years she was in the UK. Ignorance or inactivity is not an excuse.

If you are found to be fraudulent, or in breach of the various immigration laws and criteria, your visa is revoked and you are deported or removed, or given a period of time to vacate the country. I am a migrant myself, I have dealt with immigration services in Belgium, New Zealand and Australia, the criteria for visas is well documented and quite stringent. If immigration services find you have in anyway been dishonest, fraudulent, supplied wrong information etc etc, they apply the law. In her case, as sad as it may be, immigration determined she was no longer permitted, from an immigration perspective, to stay.

Morally, it's a different matter. In the article it does not mention the fact she developed the cancer while in the UK, although it appears to have manifest itself after she returned from a holiday to Africa. Even as a visitor (And there are certain criteria immigration imposes on visitors, such as medical insurance, given the fact she if from Africa, and funds to support herself), we have to assume she provided this information to immigration before the visa was granted. She would have been paying taxes, not income taxes, but VAT etc. If she was receiving any benefits, as a student, she may also have been paying taxes. So NSH healthcare should be, and was, available to her. Immigration services do not move on people without a just reason, not a moral one, and sometimes takes many many months, even years to do so. So as I stated before, if immigration acted within the law, then she has to leave. It's one of the risks migrants are exposed to until they prove they are worthy of a more permanent resident status. Trust me, I know from experience.

WR 1mposter

iTrader: (1)

Not a bad idea, but what about all the useless dhss dossers between 18 and 65 who have never worked or contributed to anything, should they be allowed free health treatment. I'd rather see the Ghanian woman receive free treatment, at least she would more grateful.

Martin2005

This whole 'tax payers only' arguement is just an excuse for doing nothing.
If someones life is danger and you have the ability to help, then you help first and ask questions later. Choosing not to help makes us responsible for this persons life and death.

Klaatu

Based on my own immigration experiences, I feel the illness is being used as a smokescreen to mask other issues as she is being removed and not deported. Immigration services, usually, don't act without just cause.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

An II is an II, send em all home pls.

TX.

r32

This would seem logical, until you consider that life saving or at least life extending treatments are available to patients based on where you live, there is even a greater divide between England and Scotland.

Life is hard, and in an ideal world the NHS should treat all people in the UK, sadly its not all the people in the UK who pay towards this wonderful organisation. So its struggles to meet its commitments. You dont get free treatment if you go elsewhere.

Leslie

Pete Brant has adequately described the reasons why she was here and was receiving treatment for her cancer while she was still here legally.

I think it is disgraceful to send her home knowing full well that she would not get the treatment in Ghana and that she was being sent away to her death. It was stated on the News yesterday that the Ghanaian authorities have refused her the treatment to save her life. The authorities here already say that they will not repatriate someone if they are likely to face torture or the death penalty in their country of origin despite their criminality. Where is the difference in this case then?

I very much regret seeing some of the reasons given on this thread why she and anyone else in her position should be sent back to their deaths regardless. Like Pete Brant, I doubt very much that she was causing anyone else in this country to suffer.

I am sorry to see how some are so quick to slam someone in such a position between the eyes. Wonder what they would say if they were in a similar state with a terminal disease.

Les

OllyK

If you're so worried, I am sure she'd be happy for you to personally pay for her treatment.

DCI Gene Hunt

My opinion, like Pete & Les, is that she should get the treatment needed here in the UK.... deporting her IS wrong.

Leslie

I honestly thought you could do better than that Olly!

Les

stilover

You pay for her treatment then. Why should the rest of us.

She shouldn't be here in the first place.

Like said before, the NHS was set up to pay for British health care, and not the worlds health care.

OllyK

Do better than what, you seem to feel some kind of moral obligation to her, so feel free to act upon it. The whole tax paying British public contribute to the NHS and the general concensus (from this thread at least), in cash strapped and failing NHS, is that we shouldn't be supporting illegal free loaders.

As I recall the last best guess estimate was that there are 750,000 illegals in this country, all could have access to the NHS. By not sending illegals back when even when they need treatment, we send the clear message that the UK is the place to come to get free treatment that you can't get (AFAIK) anywhere else in the world. Unless we tighten up or abolish our current NHS, the situtation is only likely to get worse. Sometimes you have to be tough on the few for the benefit of society as a whole.

stilover

Taxes are going up. One of the reasons for this is to pay for the ever stretched NHS.
If we kicked out all illegal immigrants who obviously take full advantage of our free health care, then this country wouldn't be in quite the sh*t state that it so obviously is.

Free houses aren't free. Tax payers pay for them. You then have to work your socks off to buy your own house.

Free health care isn't free. Tax payers pay for it. Why should I pay for someone from Africa to arrive here and get free health care.

Benefits are free money. Tax payers pay for immigrants to have money to buy food, clothes, etc.

Martin2005

If this country is in the '****e state' that you describe, then why do we have an imigration issue?

I listened to a debate on this woman case on the radio, I was relieved that the conceus I heard is very different to the nasty self-centred, views aired on here. This once again shows, that there's the real world, and then there's SN.

lordlucan

Bloody heath tourists !!!

DCI Gene Hunt

OK where do I send the cheque?

stilover

The people who plead her case to stay will be the same people who moan when they have to pay yet more tax.

It cost money to treat her. Quite a lot of money actually. Where does the money come from? Tax.

Lets send a few planes over to Africa every day to collect Aids victims and house and clothe them, and start them on an expensive Aids drugs treatment plan. Screw the hundreds of Millions of pounds it will cost. We'll all be happy to pay lots of Tax to help them. Right?

Martin2005

[QUOTE]
[quote=stilover;7551336]The people who plead her case to stay will be the same people who moan when they have to pay yet more tax.

It cost money to treat her. Quite a lot of money actually. Where does the money come from? Tax.

Lets send a few planes over to Africa every day to collect Aids victims and house and clothe them, and start them on an expensive Aids drugs treatment plan. Screw the hundreds of Millions of pounds it will cost. We'll all be happy to pay lots of Tax to help them. Right?

As I said before Tax is just being used by people as an excuse for doing nothing.

Incidentally we do spend Millions each year in helping African Nations with Aid/Famine/Development, should this be stopped to save the 'good old British taxpayer' as few quid?
Your view seem to be 'it's not our problem, let them suffer and die', this is a truly tragic point of view to hold.

OllyK

So as a country we are doing our bit then?

Where do you draw the line though? Just her? Any illegal that can get in to the country and start treatment before they get detected should be able to continue getting treatment? Where?

stilover

Tax isn't an excuse, it's reality

God forbid anything happens to you or your family, but lets say you turn ill this weekend. Rushed to hospital the doctors find something tragically wrong with you. They inform you that you need a transplant urgently.

The next day the come to your bedside stating that unfortunately the one organ that is available is going to Abu Zagabum in the next bed, as he arrived ill 2 days ago off a plane from Africa. He knew he was ill, and decided to come to England to get free healthcare.

Sorry to inform you sir, but if you have anyother reletives you'd like to contact you'd better do it quick.

Wonder if you'd still think the same way as you do know?

Martin2005

Well that's the real kicker isn't it. Don't get me wrong we need to have rules on this, but when you are actually face to face with a real human life at risk it suddenly becomes more difficult.


As for doing more for Africa and other developing nations, we could do so much more. Getting rid of agricultural subsidies, would make a huge difference to Africa, but Europe (especially the French) wont do it, this is an immoral position

Martin2005

[quote=stilover;7551428][quote=Martin2005;7551352]Why do you need to resort to ridiculous hypothetical situation to justify the unjustifiable?

The odds of the scenario you describe are millions to one.

Why do I have to pay a truly horrendous amount of tax to support people in poorer parts of the UK?
Why do I have to pay tax to cure anyone apart from myself?
Why do I have to pay to educate everyone elses children?
And so on....

We pay tax because it's the price of living in a well ordered civil society, civil society's stop being civil when they refuse to help someone who needs it.