View Poll Results: Terminally ill illegal sent home to Ghana
More of this please
119
76.77%
Fund healthcare for whoever needs it
5
3.23%
Charge costs to home government
30
19.35%
Abolish Welfare State for anyone
12
7.74%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 155. You may not vote on this poll
Terminally ill illegal sent home to Ghana
12 January 2008, 09:01 PM
#122
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In fact my main concern over the issue is the fact she was allowed a year before being deported.
13 January 2008, 11:50 AM
#125
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Are you arguing just for the sake of it now?
From the link posted by Paul in post#111...
The doctor accompanying her said he could not disclose the ailment she was suffering from but added that it had been certified that Ms Sumani could continue with treatment in Ghana.
When asked whether she was being deported, one of the immigration officers accompanying Ms Sumani said, ''this is more of a removal.'' Sources at the airport said Ms Sumani would continue with treatment at the Korle Bu Teaching Hospital in Accra.
If we are to make an exception for this woman, why just her? Why not the millions in Ghana suffering fom other terminal illnesses?
Her treatment was being provided by the NHS when she was here legally in this nation, that is the National Health service, not the International Health Service.
From the link posted by Paul in post#111...
The doctor accompanying her said he could not disclose the ailment she was suffering from but added that it had been certified that Ms Sumani could continue with treatment in Ghana.
When asked whether she was being deported, one of the immigration officers accompanying Ms Sumani said, ''this is more of a removal.'' Sources at the airport said Ms Sumani would continue with treatment at the Korle Bu Teaching Hospital in Accra.
If we are to make an exception for this woman, why just her? Why not the millions in Ghana suffering fom other terminal illnesses?
Her treatment was being provided by the NHS when she was here legally in this nation, that is the National Health service, not the International Health Service.
The real point is that although the treatment is available in Ghana, she would have to find $3,000 a week to pay for it and there was no doubt that she was unable to do that. She has been told officially in Ghana, as was fully expected before she left here, that if she could not pay-she would not be treated.
If that lies easy on your conscience, as it also appears to with others here, then that is your affair, but I personally would not feel very proud about that.
Les
13 January 2008, 01:05 PM
#126
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From what I understand it was £1,000 a month and not $3k a week for her treatment in Ghana.After returning to Ghana, Sumani learned medical treatment would cost her $6,000 for three months, a price she cannot afford.
"Her attorney, Sara Changer, said that while British officials offered to pay for her client's first three months, their offer and Syman's deportation was unacceptable."
Perhaps you would like to set up an appeal for her continued treatment in Ghana if this upsets you so much?
"Her attorney, Sara Changer, said that while British officials offered to pay for her client's first three months, their offer and Syman's deportation was unacceptable."
Perhaps you would like to set up an appeal for her continued treatment in Ghana if this upsets you so much?
13 January 2008, 04:36 PM
#127
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I don't argue just for the sake of it, I have a right to put my point on this forum just as you do too.
The real point is that although the treatment is available in Ghana, she would have to find $3,000 a week to pay for it and there was no doubt that she was unable to do that. She has been told officially in Ghana, as was fully expected before she left here, that if she could not pay-she would not be treated.
If that lies easy on your conscience, as it also appears to with others here, then that is your affair, but I personally would not feel very proud about that.
Les
The real point is that although the treatment is available in Ghana, she would have to find $3,000 a week to pay for it and there was no doubt that she was unable to do that. She has been told officially in Ghana, as was fully expected before she left here, that if she could not pay-she would not be treated.
If that lies easy on your conscience, as it also appears to with others here, then that is your affair, but I personally would not feel very proud about that.
Les
I have no qualms about it at all.
The real point IMO is where do you draw the line if you start to make exceptions?
Treat any illegals residents who are ill until they recover/die?
Treat any cancer sufferers who turn up at immigration?
Treat any citizen of Ghana?
Treat any citizen of a country in Africa?
Seriously, I would really like to know where you set the threshold Leslie.
Why is this person more deserving than any other cancer sufferer from Ghana, or any Aids sufferer?
If people feel so strongly about healthcare for citizens from other countries then do what I do and donate money/time to an appropriate charity. The NHS is paid for by the taxpayer to treat British citizens and citizens of countries with which we have reciprocal arrangements, and those are the only people who should be receiving anything other than emergency treatment to allow foreign national to return home.
To make exceptions sets precedents which ultimately tie the system in knots and makes the administration even more complex and expensive as you have to go through appeals processes and legal challenges. Every exception complicates that more.
Anything else should be funded not by general taxation but by private donation as a matter of personal choice, so don't start blethering on about conscience because mine is clear thank you very much.
One of the first things you learn in volunteer work/charity involvement is thatyou cannot, and never will be able to, cure everyone.
I'm sure you already subscribe to this so I'm intrigued as to why you see this woman as an exception.
13 January 2008, 06:14 PM
#128
Of course, what we could do is change the NHS so that all of us rich first world people have to pay for our own health care, and we can fly the entire continent of Africa here business class in order to have medical treatment because they have far less money than us.
Frankly? Bollocks to that. I'm not a great fan of the bureaucratic, wasteful NHS anyhow.. the last thing we need to do is turn it into some MSF-but-in-the-UK clone where anyone with any type of visiting visa can claim how ill they are and stay here indefinitely with the British taxpayer picking up the tab. If the individuals nation/insurance wants to pay for that healthcare, then fine - if not - Your stuffed. Not my problem.
If I hurt myself on holiday I have to have health insurance to cover most of it.... me getting seriously injured skiing isn't the problem of a French or Italian tax payer; I don't see where her having kidney failure is mine.
Frankly? Bollocks to that. I'm not a great fan of the bureaucratic, wasteful NHS anyhow.. the last thing we need to do is turn it into some MSF-but-in-the-UK clone where anyone with any type of visiting visa can claim how ill they are and stay here indefinitely with the British taxpayer picking up the tab. If the individuals nation/insurance wants to pay for that healthcare, then fine - if not - Your stuffed. Not my problem.
If I hurt myself on holiday I have to have health insurance to cover most of it.... me getting seriously injured skiing isn't the problem of a French or Italian tax payer; I don't see where her having kidney failure is mine.
13 January 2008, 07:47 PM
#129
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I have no qualms about it at all.
The real point IMO is where do you draw the line if you start to make exceptions?
Treat any illegals residents who are ill until they recover/die?
Treat any cancer sufferers who turn up at immigration?
Treat any citizen of Ghana?
Treat any citizen of a country in Africa?
Seriously, I would really like to know where you set the threshold Leslie.
Why is this person more deserving than any other cancer sufferer from Ghana, or any Aids sufferer?
If people feel so strongly about healthcare for citizens from other countries then do what I do and donate money/time to an appropriate charity. The NHS is paid for by the taxpayer to treat British citizens and citizens of countries with which we have reciprocal arrangements, and those are the only people who should be receiving anything other than emergency treatment to allow foreign national to return home.
To make exceptions sets precedents which ultimately tie the system in knots and makes the administration even more complex and expensive as you have to go through appeals processes and legal challenges. Every exception complicates that more.
Anything else should be funded not by general taxation but by private donation as a matter of personal choice, so don't start blethering on about conscience because mine is clear thank you very much.
One of the first things you learn in volunteer work/charity involvement is thatyou cannot, and never will be able to, cure everyone.
I'm sure you already subscribe to this so I'm intrigued as to why you see this woman as an exception.
The real point IMO is where do you draw the line if you start to make exceptions?
Treat any illegals residents who are ill until they recover/die?
Treat any cancer sufferers who turn up at immigration?
Treat any citizen of Ghana?
Treat any citizen of a country in Africa?
Seriously, I would really like to know where you set the threshold Leslie.
Why is this person more deserving than any other cancer sufferer from Ghana, or any Aids sufferer?
If people feel so strongly about healthcare for citizens from other countries then do what I do and donate money/time to an appropriate charity. The NHS is paid for by the taxpayer to treat British citizens and citizens of countries with which we have reciprocal arrangements, and those are the only people who should be receiving anything other than emergency treatment to allow foreign national to return home.
To make exceptions sets precedents which ultimately tie the system in knots and makes the administration even more complex and expensive as you have to go through appeals processes and legal challenges. Every exception complicates that more.
Anything else should be funded not by general taxation but by private donation as a matter of personal choice, so don't start blethering on about conscience because mine is clear thank you very much.
One of the first things you learn in volunteer work/charity involvement is thatyou cannot, and never will be able to, cure everyone.
I'm sure you already subscribe to this so I'm intrigued as to why you see this woman as an exception.
Children should obviously go to the bottom of the list because they're just state spongers!
If a whale got washed up on our shores there'd be a public outcry to save it, this country sometimes....
The ONLY reason this poor woman was returned was because our spineless government is running scared of Daily Mail headlines, due to the mess it's made of imigration, it's a bloody scandal!
Last edited by Martin2005; 13 January 2008 at 07:56 PM.
13 January 2008, 07:53 PM
#130
Of course, what we could do is change the NHS so that all of us rich first world people have to pay for our own health care, and we can fly the entire continent of Africa here business class in order to have medical treatment because they have far less money than us.
Frankly? Bollocks to that. I'm not a great fan of the bureaucratic, wasteful NHS anyhow.. the last thing we need to do is turn it into some MSF-but-in-the-UK clone where anyone with any type of visiting visa can claim how ill they are and stay here indefinitely with the British taxpayer picking up the tab. If the individuals nation/insurance wants to pay for that healthcare, then fine - if not - Your stuffed. Not my problem.
If I hurt myself on holiday I have to have health insurance to cover most of it.... me getting seriously injured skiing isn't the problem of a French or Italian tax payer; I don't see where her having kidney failure is mine.
Frankly? Bollocks to that. I'm not a great fan of the bureaucratic, wasteful NHS anyhow.. the last thing we need to do is turn it into some MSF-but-in-the-UK clone where anyone with any type of visiting visa can claim how ill they are and stay here indefinitely with the British taxpayer picking up the tab. If the individuals nation/insurance wants to pay for that healthcare, then fine - if not - Your stuffed. Not my problem.
If I hurt myself on holiday I have to have health insurance to cover most of it.... me getting seriously injured skiing isn't the problem of a French or Italian tax payer; I don't see where her having kidney failure is mine.
13 January 2008, 08:16 PM
#131
Maybe higher rate tax payers should get priority over the rest as well, afterall we pay more tax than most!
Children should obviously go to the bottom of the list because they're just state spongers!
If a whale got washed up on our shores there'd be a public outcry to save it, this country sometimes....
The ONLY reason this poor woman was returned was because our spineless government is running scared of Daily Mail headlines, due to the mess it's made of imigration, it's a bloody scandal!
Children should obviously go to the bottom of the list because they're just state spongers!
If a whale got washed up on our shores there'd be a public outcry to save it, this country sometimes....
The ONLY reason this poor woman was returned was because our spineless government is running scared of Daily Mail headlines, due to the mess it's made of imigration, it's a bloody scandal!
Try heading to Ghana and demand free healthcare and you will end up dead for being an evil imperealist who raped and pillaged the gold coast, they hate the British with a passion yet are happy to take £100's of millions in aid from us and p1ss £20 million at a time away on independence parties.
13 January 2008, 08:35 PM
#132
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If that whale washed up demanding free healthcare I would be the first down on the beach with the dynamite.
Try heading to Ghana and demand free healthcare and you will end up dead for being an evil imperealist who raped and pillaged the gold coast, they hate the British with a passion yet are happy to take £100's of millions in aid from us and p1ss £20 million at a time away on independence parties.
Try heading to Ghana and demand free healthcare and you will end up dead for being an evil imperealist who raped and pillaged the gold coast, they hate the British with a passion yet are happy to take £100's of millions in aid from us and p1ss £20 million at a time away on independence parties.
14 January 2008, 01:43 PM
#134
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Well I see a great deal of talk about regulations to cover everything about kicking her out to an unpleasant death as well as example s of what other non caring authorities will do or not do, but I see very little quoted about showing a bit of mercy to someone who is poorly placed to the ultimate degree. The quality of mercy has nothing to do with laws etc.
It really grieves me to see how what one day would have been quoted as "christian thinking" has deteriorated to such a selfish degree.
Les
It really grieves me to see how what one day would have been quoted as "christian thinking" has deteriorated to such a selfish degree.
Les
14 January 2008, 01:53 PM
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I have never understood the "well you try going to Ghana and getting free healthcare" argument. It is complete nonsense. Britain is the 6th largest economy in the world, Ghana is one of the smallest. We are in position to help people less fortunate than ourselves, and we have a moral obligation to do so.
14 January 2008, 02:16 PM
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I don't even think its Chrisitian thinking, Les. It's basic empathy for another human being. Some people have it, some people don't.
I have never understood the "well you try going to Ghana and getting free healthcare" argument. It is complete nonsense. Britain is the 6th largest economy in the world, Ghana is one of the smallest. We are in position to help people less fortunate than ourselves, and we have a moral obligation to do so.
I have never understood the "well you try going to Ghana and getting free healthcare" argument. It is complete nonsense. Britain is the 6th largest economy in the world, Ghana is one of the smallest. We are in position to help people less fortunate than ourselves, and we have a moral obligation to do so.
Les
14 January 2008, 03:31 PM
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Petebrant, im sorry mate, but its people like you who ruin this country with your p.c mumblings! Give it a rest!
This country is not a free place for treatment if your own country cant treat you !
The nhs is screwed and doesnt need freeloaders being a further drain on resources!
Like i posted before, there are pensioners in sunderland who cant get proper cancer treatment cos they live 2 miles from a certain postcode, you can tell them that their money is being spent on an illegal from ghana and see what they say!
England should put english first. END OF!
This country is not a free place for treatment if your own country cant treat you !
The nhs is screwed and doesnt need freeloaders being a further drain on resources!
Like i posted before, there are pensioners in sunderland who cant get proper cancer treatment cos they live 2 miles from a certain postcode, you can tell them that their money is being spent on an illegal from ghana and see what they say!
England should put english first. END OF!
14 January 2008, 04:08 PM
#138
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Petebrant, im sorry mate, but its people like you who ruin this country with your p.c mumblings! Give it a rest!
This country is not a free place for treatment if your own country cant treat you !
The nhs is screwed and doesnt need freeloaders being a further drain on resources!
Like i posted before, there are pensioners in sunderland who cant get proper cancer treatment cos they live 2 miles from a certain postcode, you can tell them that their money is being spent on an illegal from ghana and see what they say!
England should put english first. END OF!
This country is not a free place for treatment if your own country cant treat you !
The nhs is screwed and doesnt need freeloaders being a further drain on resources!
Like i posted before, there are pensioners in sunderland who cant get proper cancer treatment cos they live 2 miles from a certain postcode, you can tell them that their money is being spent on an illegal from ghana and see what they say!
England should put english first. END OF!
I do wish people would stop putting political dogma ahead of compassion. Plus the NHS isn't in half as bad a state as the Daily Mail would have you believe!
14 January 2008, 04:15 PM
#140
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As I've said a few times already. If you feel so strongly about it whip out your cheque book and help pay for her treatment. The pair of you are heavy on the sympathy and happily ignore the points raised in this debate which don't tally with your musings. I've still not heard where you'd draw the line?
14 January 2008, 04:18 PM
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As I've said a few times already. If you feel so strongly about it whip out your cheque book and help pay for her treatment. The pair of you are heavy on the sympathy and happily ignore the points raised in this debate which don't tally with your musings. I've still not heard where you'd draw the line?
14 January 2008, 04:18 PM
#142
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Petebrant, im sorry mate, but its people like you who ruin this country with your p.c mumblings! Give it a rest!
This country is not a free place for treatment if your own country cant treat you !
The nhs is screwed and doesnt need freeloaders being a further drain on resources!
Like i posted before, there are pensioners in sunderland who cant get proper cancer treatment cos they live 2 miles from a certain postcode, you can tell them that their money is being spent on an illegal from ghana and see what they say!
England should put english first. END OF!
This country is not a free place for treatment if your own country cant treat you !
The nhs is screwed and doesnt need freeloaders being a further drain on resources!
Like i posted before, there are pensioners in sunderland who cant get proper cancer treatment cos they live 2 miles from a certain postcode, you can tell them that their money is being spent on an illegal from ghana and see what they say!
England should put english first. END OF!
14 January 2008, 04:28 PM
#144
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And you know this how?
Martin. Are you happy that our Government raise Tax?
We may well be one of the richest countries in the world, but that doesn't mean we can afford to pay for everyones healthcare that just happens to come to Britains shores.
The NHS cost money. Where do you think it comes from? Tax.
More people need treatment, the more Tax is needed to pay for it all.
Go put on your Micheal Jackson "Heal the World" song and dream a happy dream
Bye bye, should of made her pay for the ticket also
14 January 2008, 04:36 PM
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By Law, you do not automatically receive NHS treatment if you are an illegal immigrant unless it is of an emergency nature, or immediatly necessary.
So it is a complete fallacy that illegal immigrants cause a massive drain on the NHS.
Still, this place never lets the facts get into the way of hysterical "The Sun Says" rantings, so why start now?
IT DOES!
14 January 2008, 04:39 PM
#148
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:Sigh: Good job we don't then.
Christ do people ever actually research things or do they always base their politics on heresay, supposition and The Sun?
organ shortage and the illegals get free treatment. sure they wont miss a few non essential organs like skin,eyes and kidneys