[Davey]

Its the same as everything in life, you introduce something that is supposed to help and it gets abused by idiots.. Its much like the welfare state.

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

Davey, if you haven't already have a look over in policy The system is being looked at and tweaking is taking place, I think I can speak for most people here when I say that we want this system to work effectively and without abuse, and we ALL certainly want this forum to be a nice place to come for a chat, a laugh, a bit of banter, some helpful advice or just a refuge from a boring day at work

Cheers

Sal

Supercue

iTrader: (1)

Surely the beauty of any forum is that within reason we can all have a great debate. Yes there has been a spate of threads closed/vaped some of which IMHO didnt need doing so but thats life.

I agree that Webby's high handed approach isnt the best but he isnt going anywhere soon now is he?

I do not agree with the rediculous amount of Scoobyslaps being dished out but tbh we all know as its at the top of the Forum it isnt going to be changed so we either move on or make the most of what little we have here at the moment. Unless of course we have a better forum to go to we all have to make do here dont we?

DCI you've been studying Flash on how to implement wonderous U-Turns havnt you Fella?

eClaire

BRING BACK THE CURRENT WORLD EVENTS FORUM!!!!!!!

(Maybe then NSR would be left in peace )

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Here, here!

DCI- PMSL at the faux Sn advert.

To be fair, DCi has been having a rather extensive one-o-one with Webby about his views on the infraction system in the policy section, so any change in views is probably the result of a sensible and intelligent debate between adults! I think before people cry Judas, they shoulod have a look at that thread.

Ns04 Back to the 'post a pic of something that sucked you off in 2008' thread!

The Chief

I think its good that we and DCI have had this debate with Simon, some have aired their grievances and got stuff off their chest, The debate by the most part was sensible and adult and i feel will be beneficial to Scoobynet in the long term.

Which lets face it can only be a good thing.

ex-webby

OK

Fisrtly, the cocky, insulting comments aren't necessary. I'm here to help you guys.

Secondly. The infraction system can only be abused by the same person for a very brief period of time before they're banned. It is the responsibility of everyone who wants to make this place better, to report unfair infractions, so they can be reversed, and the abuser dealt with.

I'll be completely honest, and say that VERY FEW cases of actual abuse of the system occur. But over the last week or so, its gone crazy and we have more abuse than ever before. Why? Because you're all letting them get away with it. Please don't.

Follow the procedure (which takes a whole lot less time, and stress, than going through all this all the time) and the morons will be banned. It really is that simple.

The Chief

Cheers

[Davey]

How is that possible if you dont know WHY a post was infracted? Someone may have infracted a post because its on a subject that they find insulting, but does that give them a right to infract it? Of course it doesnt! They have to accept that not everyone has the same mind set (as much as the PC brigade would like that to be the case).

Yes infracting spam and baltent un-provoked insults is fair game, but infracting someone for a joke in a thread called sick jokes is just ****ing pathetic! Or infracting someone for being racist when they are clearly not!

That depends on the stance you take, if you are liberal and feather minded and the word poo insults you then no there is no abuse of the system.. But if you agree that a forum needs to have DIFFERING opinions and debate then 99.9% of infractions are unfair.

ex-webby

Davey, with respect, its no wonder you're so up in arms about this, as you've clearly totally misunderstood the concept of infractions.

Please read all the sticky threads in the policy forum regarding infractions and you'll understand better.

An infraction cannot be given just because one individual finds it offensive. In the VAST majority of cases, the actual individual giving out the infraction (in the case of "offensive post" infractions) is not even remotely personally offended by what has been posted. Like I say, you've just misunderstood, and if I thought that was what infractions were for I'd be thinking the person who put it in place was an idiot as well. So please, do me a favour, and read up and understand what justifies and infraction and then reconsider all the abuse you're throwing around. Please.

OK, so you're answer's in your question! If its ****ing pathetic... report it! Job done!

Really? Davey, if you're an intelligent man, and you seem to be, surely you can understand that this kind of thing is what puts me off discussing this with you. You state that 99.9% of infractions are unfair.

OK. 1) That simply IS NOT TRUE. There is absolutely no question about this. I can 100% definitely, categorically assure you, you are absolutely totally and utterly wrong. So. These kind of sweeping statements just get my back up.

2) You simply don't know (as I do) what infractions have been given out. So please don't start making cast iron statments that only 1 out of a thousand infractions are valid. Its ridiculous. Even if it were true there would be absolutely no way for you to know this, so it just makes it more difficult to have a reasoned discussion about it.

-

Bottom line. You've misunderstood what the infraciton system is for, how it works, and what is justified and unjustified (I'm not trying to argumentative, nasty, insulting, offensive or anything else.. its just honestly true) and you've badly misunderstood what is being infracted, what isn't, and why.

Really, please. If you're willing to get this excited about it, and this opinionated, at least do me the favour of reading up and understand what system is actually in place before we carry on.

[Davey]

Its an anonymous system behind which the spineless can hide and where the minority over-rides the majority.. it will always fail..

Its just another example of political correctness and liberal brown nosing gone mad! I assume we are all adults and we can accept that not everyone has the same opinion? And if this is the case the infraction system doesn't even have a purpose surely?

Now I'm totally for reporting spam and blatent un-provoked insults but people seem to be using the system out of spite and mere single-mindedness.

As you say we dont know whats been given out and why.. Can you not agree this is the root of the problem?? If it was public knowledge people would be a lot more careful about what they complain about.. If they are under any impression that they might be 'miss-using' the system hopefully the fact that everyone will know they are responsible for the banning of a user or the deletion of a post should help them decide if its a good idea or not.

[Davey]

And I've just received an Infraction for calling you an 'Agressive Nobber'... After you were an Agressive Nobber.. Brilliant

ex-webby

Incorrect.

Incorrect.

Yes, and always have done, in the eight years of running one of the worlds largest automotive forums.

Incorrect, you've simply misunderstood its purpose.

Correct. That's what the unjustified infraction reporting procedure is for.

You only need to know what's been given to YOU, and WHY. And you know both of those.

As you can see by my reply, no.. the fact that you don't have a list of all infractions given to all people and what each one was for, is not the root of "the problem".

You say that, yet you're complaining ***** nilly about this and have clearly not read the public knowledge sticky threads in the policy forum.

Just about everything you're saying clearly shows anyone who knows exactly how the system works, that you simply don't understand it. I promise you.

To save time, please go and read them, as otherwise you're bound to come out with a load more things that you think are REALLY sensible comments, but just aren't.

To be really clear. If the infraction system was what you seem to think it is, then without question I would agree with everything you're saying. But it isn't.

mart360

but they keep cooming back and getting rebanned ad infinitum.

Bans & infractions are turning into the SN version of an ASBO, everyone seems to get them, yet from this side, they dont seem to be making much differance.

To be honest, i recall you had a dolly moment declaring open season on one infractee, yet within minutes of the first of many bans, they were back on under an "alternate account"

interestingly:

/bæn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ban] 1.to prohibit, forbid, or bar. –noun 3.the act of prohibiting by law; interdiction. 4.informal denunciation or prohibition, as by public opinion: society's ban on racial discrimination.
7.a malediction; curse.


To me, how can a ban be effective if they can get round it?

if you tried driving a car whilst banned, the defence of " its my alternate / licence / account" wouldnt hold much ground.

No one is saying the system is perfect, but prehaps a bit of enforcement, would open peoples eyes, and with an enforced exclusion would remove the fuel from the fire so to speak

mart

[Davey]

I can see PERFECTLY well how the system should work and in a perfect world its a good idea.. But the system is abused.. Simple as.

ex-webby

mart.

Please name one.

I promise they've made a massive improvement to the forums over the last 12 months. Of course there are always some negatives to any positives, but there's no way you can say its made no difference.

Secondly "everyone"? Out of approx 20K members who regularly use scoobynet, approx 140 have infractions, and that includes those who have had infractions reversed.

This issue has been dealt with a number of times. Please read the stickies to understand why that is absolutely no problem whatsoever.

a) they can't get around it. We ban the account, not a human being.
b) there is absolutely no way on earth, at all, that you can ban an individual from a website. So if that's the case, please tell me a solution to this.

And, as I keep saying. All you have to do is report unjust infractions, and they will be dealt with.

[Davey]

Its the same as a driving ban... There is nothing to actually stop you from driving in the same way there is nothing to stop you from signing up with a different email address, its down to weather or not you adhere to the ban as a person..

ex-webby

Davey

Trust me. Even this statement proves you don't understand it. So its not "Simple as".

Either be respectful and man enough to go and actually understand this, or stop trying to tell me (who has to shoulder the responsibility of the decision on here, and lives with it day in day out) what's wrong with it.

[Davey]

Switch it off then.. Easy solution

Can I ask, are you actually concerned about legal action due to comments users make on this forum?

ex-webby

You can ask all you like, but it will be ignored on this thread a) because you're not willing to do me that one common courtessy of learning what it is that you're slagging me off for, and b) that's not what this thread is about.

I give up, and for the record for anyone else reading this, it is this attitude that puts me off going into lengthy and reasoned debates with people. I truly apologise that I come across as short and rude from time to time, but often I've had 5 conversations like this one in the previous hour, then someone pipes up with exactly the same tone. Trust me, I'm only human like you, you'd hit the bloody roof as well!

[Davey]

Can I have a link to the thread you are talking about.. I've been reading the 'Policy' threads but I've not learned anything new yet.

fast bloke

Davey - you should wander into policy to seek enlightenment..... and give constructive input where necessary. There has been a three day discussion about this very thing. If you read every thread in policy, it may not give you all the answers, but at least you wont have to ask the same questions

ex-webby

Davey. Notice I'm not telling anyone else in this thread that they've just totally misunderstood the system.

Please just read the sticky threads, then feel free to come back. But if you're going to make a sweeping statement based on no evidence only your gut feeling, please be prepared to have the truth pointed out to you by someone who has all the evidence to hand.

[Davey]

A Link? Thats all I ask.

ex-webby

Oh my god!

How hard is it to work this out? They are Sticky Threads. They're at the top section of the ScoobyNet Policy forum, and they talk about infractions.

Do you really need me to go to the policy section and get a link for each thread and post it for you?

Look, I'm just being straight with you here, I'm honestly starting to worry whether reading those threads is going to change whether you understand it or not now.

[Davey]

It would stop people from issuing them *****-nilly because they will THINK first and no just make spur of the moment decisions as they will be named and shamed if it was the wrong choice

ex-webby

Davey

In all seriousness. Please stop this now, as you're basically just trolling.

If ANYONE thinks I'm being unreasonable here, please rate this post negatively. If you think I've been as patient as I possibly can be, please rate this post positively.

Davey, if you carry on you'll just recieve infractions for trolling. Which you won't understand because you still haven't read the sticky threads.

We are all intersted in actually making things better round here, not just having an argument. You may have nothing better to do, but I'm an incredibly busy man, so would appreciate you not ruining everyone's chances of making some ground here.

ex-webby

I think this seems to have run out of steam now everyone's started to realise the reality of the situation. If there are any more points surrounding this, please feel free to make them, otherwise I'll get on with other things.

Supercue

iTrader: (1)

Forgive me but am I having a senior moment?
I do not understand how this post deserves to be infracted. Please enlighten me.

By the way this is not sarcasm I genuinely do not see why