ex-webby

No sweat. And also not sarcasm (I promise), just please read the sticky threads which explain what to do if you think an infraction is unjustified.

[Davey]

OH FFS! I am NOT Trolling I am expressing my opinions and trying to make a logical debate.. You obvioulsy have your mind made and to be fair I am just wasting my time.

Devildog

With respect Simon/Ryan or whoever you are today, an infraction can be given if one individual finds the post offensive if that individual is able to infract and decides to do so.

Of course, that infraction is unjustified and should be reversed, but to a greater or lessor extent, for want of a better phrase, the damage has been done.

You've stated that in the vast majority of cases the actual individual giving out the infraction (in the case of "offensive post" infractions) is not even remotely personally offended by what has been posted. Again, with respect, unless you have contacted each non moderating infractor individually to establish th reasons for the infraction you cannot possibly make such a definative statement.

Even assuming your statement was factually correct, sadly, as is often the case in the real world, all it takes is an active minority to have a disproportionally negative effect on the the largely inactive majority.

I'm sure you would agree that its a fact of human nature that those with a grievance tend to be more vocal than those who are quite happy. The same happens on boards such as this. The same often applies to polls - inevitably only a very small minority (and often the same group of people) ever respond, rendering the result statistically irrelevant

Like the old cat food advert - 9/10 owners who expressed a preference said there cats preferred it. In reality, its x% of people who could be bothered to respond.

I wonder if the same applies to infractions? - If it is the case that only a small percentage of people who can infract, actually do so, in which case, inevitably it is human nature that more of those will be members who feel the need to get involved, to be "busy bodies" or to be on some form of crusade.

In other words, not necessarily a representative cross section of he Scoobynet community?

I sincerely hope this is not the case - and I wonder if you have the stats to show the actual position? ie, out of the total active membership, what percentage of members with the infraction ability actually use it?

I'm in favour of the system generally, although I voted otherwise on your poll because as it stands it is clearly causing a great deal of derision amongst a number of active members. All of the recent threads, and the time you have required to take dealing with the issue, it would appear to demonstrate that.

Any BBS where the webmaster has posted on so many occasions that long standing members should, effectively, get a life or sod off is surely not the place it should be.

Perhaps it is not the infraction system itself that is the issue, but rather simply the nature of the membership who are attracted to scoobynet in the first place?

Its not unusual in many walks of life for those who have by the nature of their involvement brought success to an enterprise to ultimately have an opposite effect.

These are simply observations, discussion points of you will. They are not criticisms and certainly not a personal attack. Simon knows me well enough to appreciate my directness.

Irrespective of personal views, the ultimate goal should be to the benefitial promotion of Scoobynet, and that is what I believe your protagonists are looking to do here.

Davey may have been rather blunt above, but his sentiment was not incorrect. Of course its your board, but there is no reason to be impolite.

ChrisGrant

First thread states "Please also, lets keep posts VERY SHORT, and to a SINGLE point, and not move on until we've established that point."

Very short

Why has he got an infraction thingy? cus he called you a troll?

DCI Gene Hunt

This is a flaw in the system.... I'm being slagged off by trolls, I haven't infracted anybody and I'm getting rather fcuked off with it all....

I deleted the post so it didn't start a slag fest.... I now know who ajm is/was and think that you need to have a word with yourselves.

[Davey]

DITTO!!

ChrisGrant

I didn't mean to imply you gave the infraction....... to be honest i would expect your more like to lay into them via a thread with all us "others" cheering you on

DCI Gene Hunt

You sure you aren't Shaggy's trolling account .... are why should I or for that matter ANYBODY reveal this information on a public forum. You really are showing your true colours now...

davegtt

Rubbish, not that Im telling you what I already know but I know what DCI does for a living, I know where he works, I know which area he resides, I know what car he drives (Dont worry Gene, Im not stalking you ) All from whats been posted on SN in the last year or so.

DCI Gene Hunt

Apologies Chris, I'm being hounded by someone (we all know who) who seems to think I'm 'ajm or Alex'.... and it's starting to do my nut in

I say what I think, so I'll only ever agree with someone if I believe they're right..

Cheers, DCI

ex-webby

Devildog

What damage? Some bits are entered into a database, some text appears on an internet page? How do you class that as damage? And on top of this.. this happens very rarely, and would happen even less if people followed the guidelines. How could it possibly NOT?

OK. Unless we have a very large population of cambodians, an abnormally strong gay community, loads of women who have male usernames, a lot of very famous people that often get mentioned on here, people who represent entire nations, groups, religions, and sects. Then, you're right, I've just taken a massive leap of faith. Be aware, I actually HAVE the information. You're just guessing.

Agreed. So we put measures in place to counter this. Let's go absolutely wild and say that 50 people are doing this. If they really were just crazy, infracting everyone all the time, we'd have LOADS more infractions, which indicates that they don't. Let's now assume that each one infracts someone unjustly once a day. It would take a little over 6 weeks before every one of them was banned. IF THE GUIDELINES WERE FOLLOWED. How hard could this be? The fact is this isn't the case, and I have only seen a very small handful of cases where people really are just abusing the system. (way less than 10 people). How do you explain that?

Nothing's perfect. We have to do the best with what we have, and we have all sorts of skills in place to a) counter that, b) recognise it, c) deal with it and finally d) account for it with judgement and experience. If we've got it wrong for nearly a decade, and our judgement is so bad, then I really don't understand why the forum is so popular.

Correct, and as I have said numerous times, the VAST majority simply don't care either way, they're just happy with the forums. This is quite a different situation to 2 years ago where we received continual slating for not dealing with the massive overpowering force of all the trolls. It was impossible to have a decent conversation on here without the thread being totally spoilt by idiots. Well, guess what, we did something about it, but some people are still not happy.

It isn't creating a great deal of derision at all. Its a very small number of people who actually care about this that much. Most people just come to scoobynet to (shock horror) talk about cars, or whatever else they fancy. Not "scoobynet is the devil and trying to take away our humanity".

Again, please be clear. It's a MINUTE MINORITY. Not "the membership". "The membership" are quite happy as can be clearly seen.

You've personally been telling me for about 5 years how I'm destroying scoobynet, and cockily chortling to me about how it will all be down around my ankles within 12 months. Quite the oposite keeps happening though, so even you have to sooner or later think "hold on.. maybe its me that's wrong after all?".

I also know you well enoguh to know your stubornnes and arrogance. You've posted things like this for years, and yet your absolutely cast iron confident statements of prediction NEVER come true. Yet you have the confidence to keep coming back and telling me the same thing over and over. At what point will you say "hmm.. hats's off. You were actualyl right all along?".. or would it not matter WHAT actually happened, you'd still think you were right?

I really hope you've taken at least some of this onboard, as you never seem to. Yet I'm giving it one good go here in the hope I'll be proven wrong.

DCI Gene Hunt

In fact you know me better than I do dave

ChrisGrant

only 8100 odd post to go though then

DCI Gene Hunt

And you know it'll be in the last flaming post you look in

Supercue

iTrader: (1)

Is it me or do I see circles lol

ex-webby

Davey - OK

-

j4mou

I despise people who shield their own account so they can troll freely. This account has been banned, and your main account has received a singificant, long standing infraction.

I'm going to start coming down a lot harder on this.

Will

Spot on, couldnt said it better my self Sal .

And for those trolls slagging DCI off needs to grow up and get some brain cells. At least he was man enough to step up to the stage in policy with Simon, good on you old chap

ex-webby

guys. please can we stay on topic?

Jamo

iTrader: (23)

good, now lets see you do it to everyone elses

ChrisGrant

WTF! why have I got an infraction? cus i read something and Laughed?

please explain........

ex-webby

Chris

Please use the correct procedure regarding infractions.

ChrisGrant

Just had to go back to the first post to find out what the topic was


then read on to find out at what point it when off topic the answer........







#7

Supercue

iTrader: (1)

LMAO

Oh do keep up old boy

ex-webby

OK.. I think we're done here.

As I think everyone can now see. If we all actually take responsibility for this, it will work perfectly.

Let's just work together. There can be no hidden agenda from this side. All we want is a good working forum, and until you actually use the infraction system how its intended (including the complaints procedure) we can't really slag it off.

It really does work very well. You just actually have to use it

Thanks to those that have been reasonable and balanced.

Supercue

iTrader: (1)

Dont lock another thread please

[Davey]

Ok, how about this then... Can the complaints system be automated, i.e. a link on the post to complain (and obviously give a reason)? Because I for one cant be bothered to go digging around in the policy forum.

I'm sure if this was the case you'ed see how many were considered unfair by the populous.

ex-webby

watchit supercue!!

Davey

This is weird.

AGAIN.. you just don't understand!!! LOL This is like some kind of comedy sketch. You've TOTALLY AND UTTERLY misunderstood.

You don't need to go digging round in anything to complain.

In addition, the "automated complaint" thing has been done before also.

-

If you can't be bothered to understand the system two things are going to happen :

1) I won't spend time discussing it with you.
2) You'll continue to get infracted for things you don't understand, and / or will continue to think the system is crap.

Its like me saying "the whole space shuttle thing was so crap! I mean they didn't even reach the bottom of the sea once in all those years!!".

You've totally and utterly misunderstood it. Go and read, or just to save yourself some stress, accept the fact that you just don't understand it because you're too idle to look into it - and therefore CAN'T POSSIBLY have a valid opinion. Its not rocket science - How could you?

Tidgy

no idea what this thread is about but i saw this paragraph and now need to clean my screen of coffee .

rafpmsl