The Zohan

Thats all fine and dandy d i am sure you knew what you where getting into talking to other teachers and professionals.

I work some 50 hours a week on average. I often work at home in the evening or at weekends if required to. I am not alone in this and others work harder/longer. I get some 20-25 days off a year, several i have to take during school hol's or to cover teacher traning days or shell out some 40-50.00 to cover child minders which do not like to do as i would rather spend time with my children or take leave, not unnecessarily when i would choose to or convenient to me. I am not moaning, just pointing out the other side of the coin.

a1oku

There are some really ignorant barstewards out there.What a load of brown pooey stuff from some of them.As has been said many times,PARENTS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR KIDS AT HOME. They are responsible for what they say,see or do at home...not the school.No electricity is infinitely more important than some kids talking about what they have seen at home. Teachers are not child minders.If you have kids and can't afford them without both of you going out to work,that's your fault. Not the State.The State enforced training days..and took the days out of teachers' annual leave originally.They were called Baker Days.If you still think teachers work from 9 to 3.30 and have dynamic holidays then your intellect is a sad indictment of your own education,or lack of it...

The Zohan

Rather than being so damn rude and arrogant then why not the explanation without insulting people who do not agree.

That would be a more adult and intellectual way of behaving since you brought up education - or a lack of it.

I hope you have more understanding and are better tempered at school (if indeed you are) as you are a role model to our children.

As pointed out a few times the bringing up of children is everybody's responsibility, it begins with the parents and continues at school, we entrust our children to the schools and education system - that is the law of the land.

I think you will find most responsible parents stand shoulder to shoulder with teachers and have respect for them.

Julz1983

I think most of that from a1oku was fired at me Paul, after my posts must come across as 'chav', I can afford to bring up a child without needing to work, my husband works 12 hour shifts 5 days a week and a 5 hour morning every saturday, I am a stay at home mum and deal with everything to do with my little one, I see no problem in that, I also know people who do teach and I know damn well that they don't work 9am - 3:30pm, I understand that they work through holidays, after school etc. Yes it's parents responsibility for what their kids are saying or doing if they are picking it up from HOME and taking it to SCHOOL, but when it's the other way around and my daughter used to be fine, but recently it's been a case of her bringing it back from school and back in to the house, I can see other people's points, maybe's I'm just blind to the fact, but I'm definately no Gail Platt or Vicky Pollard for that matter

The Zohan

^^Agree with the above^^

A lot of the comments from teachers (if they are indeed, i am taking them at face value) seem very defensive and a bit us and them which saddens me.

teachers and parents should be working together!

Parents like yourself point out an issue, something important to them and the replies appear arrogant and condescending.

Some constructive and useful comments would go down a lot better and be a lot me helpful.

As for getting 'drawn' as mentioned earlier, how about some positive discussion

I seem lucky with our eldests' education and school. The teachers and head i deal with are proactive positive, understanding and conscientious in their approach and seem to love their work. I think this is party down to great leadership and attitude.

Julz1983

Thank You! Someone with a brain that functions!

That is my point, I or any other parent can go to the school with a problem that has started to affect our child and it seems to get thrown back in your face, I think it is common knowledge that a child is the parents responsibility but the normal system is that children are looked after at school in the care of teachers just as they are at home in the care of a parent, I would like to think that when I drop my daughter off at school in the morning she is geting educated not being taught how to swear or picking up tips from the unruly kids who decide to inflict harm on others.

I'm not slagging teachers off but it is just my personal experience, for example in January I was rushed to hospital and ended up having quite a major operation, which I am still recovering from, I had to have my Mum here to take my daughter to school, do the house for me, go and pay bills for me, pick my daugter up from school, bath her, basically everything as I couldn't even lift the kettle! Not once did the headteacher ask how I was neither did she introduce herself to my Mum plus she never even knew who was taking my daughter to and from school, she only knew who it was as my daughter told her it was her gran and because of me phoning up, I thought schools were supposed to be secure but in my case anyone could have been walking in their to collect my daughter and just taking her word for it as to who that person was!

Flaps

iTrader: (1)

Julz, sorry to hear about your operation and I hope you get better, but do you honestly expect a headteacher to know whats going on with every parent for the students at their school? I wish we could find out more about the individual pupils and their background but the job is just far too demanding to have the time to find out. Admittedly i'm not a headteacher and I work at a school probably ten times the size of the one your kids go to but I don't even get time to know the students I teach let alone find out about their parents! It's not easy when you see 480 different kids every week for just one lesson!

Flaps

iTrader: (1)

It's a very thankless job and more often than not we get criticised for one thing or another from one person or another.

Anyway, best dash, the bell's just gone.

Julz1983

Thanks

Erm......... this school has less than 60 pupils altogether between the ages of 4 and 8, not much to get to grips with I would say, maybe's it's just the area we live goes against us, you know a bit like postcode lottery!

It's not the fact of knowing what is going on with each parent, it's more the showing concern side of it, more like lack of concern I should say, it was a long story but I had been ill for quite a while before going into hospital, if I had been 12 hours later I wouldn't have been sitting her being able to have a rant lol, but the point being she knew what was going on from the start and just nagged all the time if my daughter hadn't been able to get in to school or had been late because of my problem, I couldn't help it but there was no concern there just plain as day cold heartedness that came across in every converstion. I ended up I could barely walk and she was still on the phone having a go, the f word had to be held back on a few occassions lol.

Anyways, thats just what it's like here, I know it's not the same everywhere.

Dream Weaver

So what your essentially saying Julz, is that the head should show some interest in your life and why you haven't turned up at school and your mum has, and the head should be enquiring about how you are?

The teachers and staff should show concern and care towards the children, but it's quite frankly ridiculous for you to expect any concern towards parents, it would take them all day to find out what was happening to parents, even just with 60 kids in school.

She was right to be on at you to make sure your child was in school, that was a duty of care towards your kid to make sure she has the right education.

You are also saying that the behaviour of other children that they have picked up from THEIR home/bad parents should somehow be managed by the school and the head so that your child doesn't come into contact with such behaviour/language?

That's an awful lot to ask of somebody that has to manage a school, whether it has 10, 60 or 600 pupils.

You would be amazed what the head/deputy is NOT allowed to do. Exclusion from school is very difficult to dish out now thanks to the PC brigade.

Julz1983

Some of the parents are as bad as the kids tbh

All I'm saying is that whether the kids are picking things up at school or from home then their should be a line somewhere, I think parents should be pulled up about how their child is coming to school with a load of swear words and repulsive language that is coming from home via parents or siblings, I would have thought it wouldn't have been tolerated in school no matter where it was originating from as it affects other kids who go there to learn. As I said before that goes in one ear and out the other but the head is quick on the defensive that my own child shouted out in class instead of waiting

^Qwerty^

I became a parent governor last year, and it has opened my eyes somewhat. The school is run as a business, and has to be. End.

Two things you may or may not know:

1) If a teacher goes off on maternity leave, the school has to fund a replacement, they get no extra help from the LEA. So if you imagine a primary school, which may well have a high % of female teachers, it can become a real problem.

2) The LEA makes no provision for the age of the school buildings, and thus a run down, 50+ year old school building will get exactly the same funding as the same school would in a new state of the art building.

The school is given a budget by the LEA at the beginning of the FY year, and they have to make it last no matter what happens. Even worse, if they go over budget, they get financially penalized, which removes even more money which could be used to educate children. It's a sad state of affairs.

As for teaching, it's not a job I could do, well not unless I could start sometime after 10:30 and with a few cups of coffee down my neck.

The Zohan

Its a good point Julz, if the problems are coming from home to the school then surly it would be the right thing to do to tackle the problem at home, no i do not mean teachers are the parents social workers but perhaps they involve social services and let them know there may be a problem or issues that need dealing with.

This would help all, kids, parents, teachers alike. It may well be that this is already the case, seems a sensible and logical approach.

Apart from the parents/close family and teachers i do doubt if the kids have much contact with other adults so it would be difficult for others to spot.

Ultimately it is the children who should be considered first and foremost. If the parents are at fault/negligent or creating a monster who is a threat to themselves or others by their behavior then something needs doing.

No, it is not all down to teachers by any means, that is not what i am saying but the spend time with the kids and should be able to form an opinion and see if there is trouble and if necessary take steps such as contacting social services (anonymously), etc.

It might be that time and effort put in at an early stage will save a lot more time and effort if not a serious problem later on.

Not wishing to harp on about my eldests' primary school but they dealt with her bullying in flash and it has stopped and i was very impressed.

P.S i hope this does not come across as pompous or patronizing, it is not meant that way, without writing a novel it is just the points really. I do fully support my local schools as do a lot of parents and long may it continue. I would like to get on the governors board to see what it is really like and to see if i can be of service. I certainly do not believe i have the answers or solutions or can know all the ****, politics and constraints teachers have to deal with.

Teachers: keep it up and keep doing good work.

Julz1983

I think we could be here all day debating about this, and yes each and everyone of us has or has had different experiences and will air different views, it's good when people can see each others views and it can carry on as a general conversation, it doesn't help when people come along and have a good gob off before finding out the facts or peoples reason as to what they are talking about!

I'm only 24 so it hasn't been a lifetime since I left school but god do you see a different side to things once you have your own kids going to school!

Anyways' I'll have a look on here again later as housework is calling ......oh the enthusiasm lol

Dream Weaver

People please, you can't start contacting social services because a kid comes into school talking about their mum and dad having sex.

Bearing in mind social services act first and ask questions later there could be all sorts of problems, and the language in this case may not even be coming from home, it could be from other peers.

Paul, how would you feel if you were suddenly being investigated by social services because they had been told that your child had been talking about you and the mrs having sex, and someone had "anonymously" told them it was you at fault?

Teachers should teach the curriculum and give a basic level of care towards the children, but they are in no way responsible for how that child behaves or for spotting potential problems in children, they are school teachers NOT Psychologists!!!!!

Parents need to take responsibility for their childs actions, and in 75% of cases they simply dont do that, it is always someone else that is to blame because their child swears a lot, or bully's others, or is disruptive, or steals from others - it is never their fault.

Julz1983

Can I just say, it wasn't just talking about it, the child in question has been doing all the actions aswell as 'poking' around down below, and no it was in no way just being inquisitive, it was quite graphic, at age 5 I don't think that is normal, I mean my daughter has still to ask about the 'birds and the bees' lol nevermind going round doing all that.

The Zohan

You sight this example which is not the one and only instance, however, if on closer examination the parents where found to be 'doing it' deliberately in front of the child and traumatising the child or involving the child then that is a BIG problem and maybe if they spot it they are in a position to help stop this. I am pretty sure any right minded person would want to. Even so, how about of the child is being violent or abusing other children, maybe trying to stab another child in the neck or any one of many similar issues.

All hypothetical i know.

I see teaching a bit like nursing and maybe this is outdated, it is a vocation and people go into it because they want to help/educate/mold kids for the better.

surely a teacher can contact the SS if it warrants the circumstances warrant it.

Sonic'

Our headmaster contacts SS if your child is late more than a few times a term, he also told us that we should contact SS about the young lads behaviour, and if we didnt then he would (this he claimed was to try and get help, as the head refuses to accept anything is wrong with him)

Julz1983

Our head did actually contact SS on someone because even with a doctors letter she didn't believe the child had a medical problem that kept her off school, so she got SS to investigate, obviously that wasn't right, or I don't think so anyways. The way society is today you don't know what to do for the best.