Martin2005

Thats hardly the point Dave was making though, I don't think green taxes have anything to do with allowances.

And no I don't think most of them are worth it.

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

On the subject of the taxation of 'gas guzzlers', from discussions with people, watching some discussions on the tele, and alot of the points raised on here, it would seem, generally that people are simply going to stump up the extra, to carry on in their vehicles. They are willing, if not happy to pay the extra, so with that in mind it would seem, that by in large, this extra tax, is not in fact going to make much difference in terms of making people change their habits, thus making it yet another money maker for the government.

Obviously, there will be people out there who can't afford to do this, but it would seem, alot can, and therefore I can't see what is really being achieved.

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

It's all just money making, if the government (or in fact any alternative government) really wanted to tackle problems, they would go to the route of the problem and address them from there, not just treat the symptoms so to speak, by throwing taxes at them.

PeteBrant

Surely the root of the problem is that too many people are driving too many cars that emit too much CO2, isn't it? (the perceived root of the problem)

I mean short of actually making them illegal surely the only way to stop people buying them/using them is to disincentivise them, isn't it?

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

If this is in fact such a big problem, then I'm far more in favour of offering incentives and alternatives, rather than just throwing a tax hike at the problem to force people into a corner, either stump up or get rid/don't buy. Not to mention that, as I've said, it doesn't seem to be having the desired effect, as many people seem to be willing just to stump up, so therefore, problem not solved.

PeteBrant

Ah I see where you are coming from now - I posted something similar at some point, somewhere, I.e too much stick not enough carrot.

Martin2005

Why is it that you keep making unjustifiable sweeping statements, then say if I don't agree then I don't understand, this is as usual arrant nonesense!

To say all politicians are corrupt is demonstrably untrue, to say 'green taxes' are designed to line politicians pockets, is an insane suggestion.

If you had said that some politicians (a very small minority) are corrupt then I'd agree, but you never deal detail only absolutes. Therefore I can only conclude that YOU don't understand the issues, and just make sweeping statements based upon dogma and/or what you WANT to believe.

PeteBrant

But Dave, Green taxes do not necessarily raise more revenue which is where the old conspiracy theory falls down. For example, car tax. It used to be a flat rate. It is now a sliding scale. How much extra is raised due to the new band G etc, gioven that you are raising far less in bands A-D?

I bet that overall the difference betwen the flat rate system and the new incentivised system is as near to bugger as makes no odds. The same applies to all manner of green taxes.


And why is it only green taxes that are used to keep the Government in power? Why is it not Alcohol and tobacco taxes - Which absolutely do raise more revenue every year due to absolute rises.

Or any other tax for that matter.

Why is the "sinister keep the men in power tax" only the green one?

Martin2005

I agree with you on the civil service, too many people not doing enough good, and therefore incredibly inefficient. This is the biggest challenge (economic and social) we face. This is why I'll vote Tory next time, because this is Labour's biggest failing.

But this statement is very different from the one you made earlier, though isn't it.

Martin2005

Blimey you are trying to disagree with me, even when we agree

PS I am VERY aware of all current affairs, and have a deep (and unbiased) interest and understanding of politics, so please stop patronising me like I'm some sort of naive teenager.

Remember I'm not the one making the unsubstantiated sweeping statements here - you are!

PeteBrant

I think large norks is something we can all enjoy.

warrenm2

Then stop posting comments with the intellectual rigour of one

markGT

I haven't seen the above mentioned film, however I do have a problem that it was made by the ex vice president of the most bent righteous nation on earth. Since when have politicians told truth? I’m all for recycling etc but I just don’t buy in to it.

Governments must be rubbing their hands at how much they can get out of the motorist under the lie that the car is killing the planet.

Well I won't be getting rid of my three cars.

Martin2005

Well fella thats easy to say hidden behind a PC screen.

Most post I see from you starts with an insult to the person you disagree with, and then works through a series of rhetic ridden points, that are so one sided in nature that I doubt you'd see the truth if you fell over it.

warrenm2

I'd be happy to say it to you personally as well!

Suresh

No the old conspiracy theory doesn't fall down Pete. Green taxes are often 'tax the rich' policies dressed in eco suits



Is it all being done for the good of the environment?
There is a financial implication.
Changes to vehicle excise duty, extracting more from owners of gas-guzzlers, is forecast to raise £465m in 2009-10 and £735m in 2010-11.
CBI director-general Richard Lambert said that the amount of money which the policy would generate would "not build confidence in the government's green measures".


"We need carrots as well as sticks to change behaviour," he said.


BBC NEWS | Business | Q&A: Showroom tax

PeteBrant

But, am I am sure we will differ - I don't think there is anything wrong with taxing the rich to a greater extent than you tax the poor.
I can agree with that.

Klaatu

You are so very wrong. Everything, consumables that is (Unless you grow/make it yourself) will have a carbon levy applied.

Klaatu

Alcohol consumption on the rise in the UK. Tax a deterant? You will soon see "cabon footprint" labelling on products in the UK, and that will achieve diddly squat.

Klaatu

Guilt edge pension funds, available to MP's before retirement age, free travel for MP's and spouses, free medical cover, the list goes on. So, yes, they are "pocketing" your taxes.

Klaatu

It's the thin edge of the wedge. The tax will continue to climb, year on year, in an attempt to change behaviour. We know already taxation does not always work as people still smoke and drink alcohol, the tax keeps going up, but people still keep buying.

But there are so many people who believe (Meaning have blind faith in Govn't policy) tax is the way to go.

Klaatu

It's not perceived anymore, it's proven. Didn't you read the Stern report? However, these "policies" are truely all about (Eventual) control.

Klaatu

What you can't get in your mouth is wasted.

Martin2005

Right so that's why they've made all this GW stuff up, makes sense now.

I think you may have watched one too many episodes of the X-files when you were younger

Klaatu

"Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo555
I'm not a big global warming "doom & gloom" fan, but in all seriousness, spend an hour and a half of your life watching Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth".....

Good film that explains an awful lot, without the usual preachy "it's all YOUR fault" stuff.

Has it changed my outlook on life - well, slightly.

I use it as a teaching tool and get (older) teenagers to comment on it - they come up with their own conclusions. Very informative and entertaining.

There is a fine line between conscientious care for the planet, and then these stupid lentil-wearing tree-hugging yogurt munchers. Personally, I use it as my own yardstick as to what I should do compared to what I can do.

Dan"

It's complete rubbish. What does his polictial career and the death of his son (Albeit sad) have to do with showing the facts regarding climate change? Politics and emotion have little respect for scientific fact. Incidentally, his "documentary" contains no less than 36 blatant errors and unthruths.