Leslie

It makes one think alright.

Les

Klaatu

Sorry for the delay in responding, I have been on a business trip, involving air travel.

I don't need to "Google" for "hits" on this subject, clearly you did. There is a very good reason why I do not "Google" for links to support my PoV. I don't need it!

I had read through ALL of your "Googled research" links and I cannot find the one and the most important single fact that differs Earth from Venus regarding Co2 and surface temperatures. I suggest if you want to continue to "debate" with me, you should find out what that difference is. Also lookup what "runaway warming" actually means in regards to Venus. You will note that, although high, temperatures on Venus are normal for Venus.

I ask again what concentrations of Co2 are in the atmosphere of Earth, and how much of that is due to humans, bear in mind that Co2 has been at 1500-1800ppm in the past.

When you understand the "difference" you will soon understand that Co2, on Earth, isn't a problem.

Happy reading.

Klaatu

You are questioning the very scientists who reported their findings, and, the process in which the IPCC "delivers" those findings to Govn't advisers. These scientists have provable and very "worrying concerns" as to how the "facts" are determined.

Clealy you don't understand the implications of misinformation. WW1, WW2, Fauklands, Gulf War, Iraq invasion, war on "terrorism" etc...how the "public" are, continually, misinformed.

finalzero

Here is one for you, the global warming scare mongerers can stick this up their ****:

You ask, I provide. November 2nd, 1922. Arctic Ocean Getting Warm; Seals Vanish and Icebergs Melt. « Watts Up With That?

finalzero

And another: Global Warming Hoax: News

I put this one in my "year 2000 hoax" box

Martin2005

The reason I posted those links up (and I too rarely do this btw), is because you either deliberately or accidentally mis-read my post to HuttonD. He was claiming Co2 isn't greenhouse gas, when it just is. I used Venus as an extreme example.

Man-made Co2 is a tiny percentage of all the Co2 in our atmosphere, why do you ask?

Despite your rather annoying and patronising comments, I am becomming far alligned to your way of thinking on this. If temps haven't increased in recent years, then for me that's a massive hole in the 'rapid GW' arguement.

Leslie

The way I see it, they say that there has been no increase in global temperatures yet this century although there was at the end of the last one. Also it has been reported that water vapour is far more effective at causing global warming anyway.

Like Martin, I was concerned initially about it all, but now am also beginning to feel that there is a hole in the GW argument and that it is being used cynically as an excuse to screw all that money out of us in taxes etc. The climate change is looking more like a cyclic event I think.

Les

Paul3446

I don't understand why so many people are so completely convinced by this "science".

Don't forget in the 70's, scientists were certain we were heading for another ice age, and when one scientist said that he thought that temperatures were going up, he was treated like some sort of deranged lunatic.

The only thing that is certain for me, is that no-one knows for sure!

Klaatu

You still have not indentified the one and only significant difference between Earth and Venus and the main reason why surface temperatures on Venus are higher than Earth. It's, conveniently, left out of reports about the two planets.

No-one has disputed Co2 as a GHG, along with water vapour and methane (Only when it's burnt. Know what swamp gas is? You won't find it where Co2 is, until it's burnt) and those nasty rain forrests produce more methane than all of human activity and human agricultural production put together.

Klaatu

The baseline temperature used to determine "variance" by "climatologists" is the gobal average between 1961 and 1990. It's been warmer than that before and in human history too. But we won't let those little "facts" interrupt the gravy train that is the IPCC.

Klaatu

C'mon Mr Martin...answer...

markr1963

Not read most of this thread but thought I'd chuck this in just for the hell of it

'Forget global warming, prepare for Ice Age' | NEWS.com.au

Martin2005

I see this thread refuses to die!

OK to your point I guess what you are talking about here is the proximity to the sun?

Klaatu

It needs to be kept alive in order for people to challenge political consensus.

Proximity is a factor, along with Co2 @ 95% concentrations, but they are not the main driver of the temperature. It's always left out of discussions about the two planets.

finalzero

I wonder if the problems are related to those HAARP devices firing high wattage waves at the upper atmosphere?

Klaatu

And we've just had the coldest period in April in 19 years I think it was (Only heard it on the news in passing the other night).

PeteBrant

And we've just had the warmest winter in the Northern Hemisphere on record

I win!

Suresh

Link please - and no IPCC-funded sources either please!

PeteBrant

Whats wrong with IPCC sources, as compared to climate change skeptic sources, then?

Also, how come Klaatu can say "i heard on the news the other night" and you don't bat an eyelied, but I say something to support climate change and you want proof

You're bleeding see through pal

Still here's some nice independant ones for you. Amazingly what I did, right, was type "2007 warmest winter" into google

NCDC: Climate of 2007- February Global analysis
BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Winter 'second warmest on record'
FOXNews.com - U.S. Government: This Winter Was Warmest on Record Worldwide - Science News | Science & Technology | Technology News (Fox, you know those left wing looneys )
The Prague Post Online: News: 2007 warmest year on record

And so on....

Leslie

There is no doubt that we are going through climate change, but no positive evidence I reckon as to whether it is due to global warming because of Man's influence or whether it is cyclical and we can do nothing to change it. I am becoming more of the opinion that it is cyclical.

Les

Suresh

Type "2008 warmest winter" into Google and somehow I think you won't find anything as it doesn't fit the hype!

PeteBrant

There's a very good reason for that. We haven't had 2008's winter yet.

Suresh

2008 Winter/ski season is over.
Check the dates of your articles about 2007, they're dated March 2007

PeteBrant

results, Suresh, results.

Just to be clear, anyway - To say we have had the coldest April for 19 years is just further proof that global warming is a lie. But when we have the warmest winter on record (one that will be shown to have been beaten in 2008) it proves nothing.

This thread is a ****ing joke

Suresh

It really is a religion with you Pete . Nothing can shake the belief that the sky is falling!
Per your 'news' links from March 2007 where the 2006/2007 winter was being hailed as the warmest in 120 years (which proves nothing given the age of the earth) - if 2007/2008 was warmer still, then victory would have been declared in March 2008. It wasn't, so given the lack of hype, the 2007/2008 winter was almost certainly colder

Coolest Winter Since 2001 For U.S., Globe, According To NOAA Data

You lose

swiss scooby

Yes, I do strongly believe that there is something wrong with our climate. Yes I saw Al Gore's movie and I was very impressed and shocked while watching it. No matter if everything is true or not, it made sense to me. I am trying to make a change wherever and whenever I can. There is no need to let the water run while brushing my teeth or while soaping my body under the shower. It makes perfectly sense to me to use energy saving lamps. I don't need to turn on the lights in the staircase when it is only a little darker to use them. I don't need to heat as much as I used to during wintertime. Please, don't tell me that it is not important what I do as an individual, simply because China and India don't give a damn. When I see the glaciers melting much faster during the last 20 years then they did in the last 100 years, I don't think that everything is absolutely normal. I don't mind changing my personal life and behaviours towards a more energy saving lifestyle. But, it really is up to the individual. The climate and nature is something we all depend on and I strongly believe that it is important to protect it as much as possible in our short life and to pass it on to the next generation. I know that this topic is probably difficult to discuss in a car forum, but if you really are true to yourself........ why do we actually have to discuss it. Now go on and call me a hippie guy. Oh, and have I already mentioned that I am vegetarian?

warrenm2

Does it still make sense if I told you the energy used in their manufacture is more than the saving over a conventional bulb (due to the rare earth materials that go into them)? That the saving you get is based on continuous 24 hour usage? Does it still make sense to get them? Or do you think your decisions are based on incomplete evidence and having more evidence could change your view completely?

swiss scooby

The current energy bulbs i am using are lasting me already over 7 years so far. Before them, I had to change the regular bulbs like every 5 months or so, because they always broke (almost as often as the headlight bulbs in my Impreza MY00). Therefore yes, I believe that I have saved quite some energy with them. But maybe you can still change my mind back and I will have to drive again to the hardware store every 5 months and buy regular replacement bulbs.

Klaatu

Inter-glacial periods ARE warmer. We are in between iceages, in fact overdue for one. And please, can you define what "normal" is?

The "documentary" which contains no less than 36 unthruths. Now that is inconvenient.

Klaatu

Based on the global average temperature between 1961 and 1999.