swiss scooby

Of course I know that we are between iceages and that the next one is already overdue. With normal I meant the speed. In-between iceage periods are approximately 10,000 years long. We are currently in the approximately 10,500th year and therefore about 500 year overdue. BUT, why should the glaciers melt so fast within the last 20 years compared to the last 100 years? I don't know what the normal melting speed of glaciers should be, but I also don't need to be a scientist to see that 20 years seem extremely short for such a fast melting we are facing i.e. in the alps. That's what scares me quite a bit.

Do you have an internet link to these 36 untruths of Al Gore's movie? I am very interested to read them.

Klaatu

You have just repeated most of the IPCC unscience, scaremongering and propaganda. Can't you do any research yourself? With regards to climate, climate shouldn't be anything we humans consider as "normal" in only 150 years. To think we can infleuence or change it is rediculous.

I won't prvide a "link" to "back up my post", which is what you are after. I've done my research for me, I am not a "gofer" for someone who appears not to have an ounce of independent thought. But I will indentify one for you. Look up "hockey stick temperature graph". Then look up The Medievil Warm Period, The LIttle Ice Age, The Carboniferous Period...and have agood read there.

Can you guess what industry Al's family made their multimillions? It's ain't about saving the planet BTW.

Klaatu

Atmospheric pressure is the main driver of surface temperature on Venus, at about 90 times Earth's.

PeteBrant

Cobblers. As I have said, reapeatedly - I hae an open mind on the subject. I am not convinced one whay or the other.

I am willing to accept that there are people that have devoted thier life to studying this sort of thing that know a lot more than I do.

Something that a few people here could do with accepting.

Martin2005

Go on then professor, enlighten me, why is atmospheric pressure so much higher on Venus?

Martin2005

Swiss, welcome to a debate with professor Klaatu, just wind him up and off he goes!

Klaatu

It's vastly thicker, possibly 100 times thicker. Do some research for yourself for once.

Leslie

If I remember correctly, the atmosphere on Venus is far more dense than here so the atmospheric pressure is consequentially higher. I remember being told in school that it is a mixture of CO2 and Sulphuric acid and fluorocarbons. Great little mix!

Les

Klaatu

Cheers. But to debate with me you would need to have studied this for 30 years, rather than just "waking up to it" thanks to the IPCC and Gore.

PeteBrant

Atmospheric pressure - Which leads to runaway greenhouse effect is the main driver, yes.

Martin2005

Exactly - but hey what do we know?

Martin2005

So you don't know then?

Martin2005

Guess what professor, I've never read an IPCC report, and I haven't seen Al Gores movie - so once again you are making rather arrogant and presumptive statements!

I'm just another member of Joe public trying to make sense of it all.

Leslie

How does atmospheric pressure itself increase the greenhouse gas effect please?

Les

Suresh

Whereas earlier -- -

Of course you're undecided . . Oh and I accept your apology for being wrong about winter 2007/2008 which is the coolest in 7 years....



Baaa!
Learn to think for yourself a little FFS man rather than accepting everything you are told! Climate change theory is based upon computer modeling and extrapolation of data. It is not a fact. Are you really suggesting we should just accept a guess from a scientists model as being the ultimate truth, because the person doing the guessing has been at it for ages and has some letters after their name? Meteorologists use models to predict the weather every day and look how reliable they are! Climate and weather are somewhat stochastic processes which is why predictions of both usually end in tears. Global cooling anyone??

Paul3446

I see that they have announced today that thearth is entering a 10 year period of "natural Cooling", so temperatures may not rise for 10 years, but Global Warming is still happening.

Now call me an old cynic, but this seems like a very handy way of saying, "Oh, we've noticed that temperatures aren't rising at all, but we still want to say they are and tax your ***** off, so if there's no temperature rise for 10 years, this is why"!

PeteBrant

Is English your first language? Because I can only assume it isn't seeing as you have clearly not understood a single word I have said.

I'll say it again.


I have an open mind on the subject. I am not convinced one way or the other.

I am willing to accept that there are people that have devoted thier life to studying this sort of thing that know a lot more than I do.


Which bit of that are you struggling with. I am more than happy to rephrase it into something which maybe a little easier to understand.

Lemme know, 'k?

Klaatu

Wrong!!!! There is no "runaway greehouse" effect on Venus. The high surface temperatures are "normal" for Venus given the conditions. To compare Earth with Venus is futile.

You don't win! Try again!

Klaatu

No, I know you haven't, but you have been "exposed" to Govn't and IPCC propaganda, through the media. That is why you hold the views you do. You have not, presonally, researched the subject yourself outside internet based material. When you do, you might learn a few things.

PeteBrant

Venus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A Runaway Greenhouse Effect?

NASA - TROPICAL ‘RUNAWAY GREENHOUSE’ PROVIDES INSIGHT TO VENUS

Runaway greenhouse effect turned Venus into oven, scientists say

Planetary Science


Are you absolutely sure you don't want to retract your previous statement?

Klaatu

What I know is we actually do know how to measure atmosphere thickness, even remotely, through proven science.

PeteBrant

What, like there being no greenhouse effect on Venus?

Klaatu

Yes. There is no "runaway greehouse" effect as temperature isn't "running away".....or did yo forget that little fact?

PeteBrant

So just to be clear, you're right, and NASA are wrong - Does that about cover it?

Klaatu

I didn't say that, you did. There is no "runway greehouse" effect. Please look at estimated temperaturs for Venus. They vary within the "normal" variance for Venus. Stop comparing Earth to Venus, you are on a loser!

Klaatu

NASA don't mention atmospheric pressure in their findings. Look up what "runaway" means.

PeteBrant

From NASA

A region in the western tropical Pacific Ocean may help scientists understand how Venus lost all of its water and became a 900-degree inferno. The study of this local phenomenonby NASA scientists also should help researchers understand what conditions on Earth might lead to a similar fate here.

The phenomenon, called the ‘runaway greenhouse’ effect, occurs when a planet absorbs more energy from the sun than it can radiate back to space. Under these circumstances, the hotter the surface temperature gets, the faster it warms up. Scientists detect the signature of a runaway greenhouse when planetary heat loss begins to drop as surface temperature rises.Only one area on Earth – the western Pacific ‘warm pool’ just northeast of Australia – exhibits this signature. Because the warm pool covers only a small fraction of the Earth’s surface, the Earth as a whole never actually ‘runs away.’ However, scientists believe Venus did experience a global runaway greenhouse effect about 3 billion to 4 billion years ago.



Just to clarify, which bit are NASA wrong on, Prof?

Klaatu

About 3 - 4 billion years ago?? And in 3 - 5 billion years, our Earth will be no more, burnt to vapour! You are comparing geological events, in human timeframes. 150 years, on a scale of 3 - 4 billion!!! Get real!

If Earth reaches concentrations of 95 Co2, it may happen. Problem with that Peter, is that there is a clear record of Co2 at 1500-1800 PMM WITHOUT that feared "runway greenhouse effect".

PeteBrant

I'm not comparing anything. I didn't say anything about venus until you mentioned the atmosphere.

You said "Temp on Venus is down to atmospheric pressure"

I said "Temp on Venus is down to atmospheric temp which caused an runaway greenhouse effect"

You said "Wrong!!!! There is no "runaway greehouse" effect on Venus"

I said "yes there is," and backed it up with various reports, including one from NASA

You continued to squirm until you realised there was no way out.


That's about it - I havent mentioned anything about geological comparisons.