Anyone sick of the 'green'/Global warming stuff yet?
07 March 2008, 02:33 PM
#211
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This whole Al 'I invented the internet' Gore thing is of course just another right wing piece of propoganda that was regularly trotted out by Fox, Rush Limpbar, Sean Hanity and the rest of the neo-con nutcase estabilment during the 2000 election. I'm surprised you fell for it.
I smell a rotten egg. Nothing to do with "right wing", it's fact, unlike his mocunetary!
07 March 2008, 02:35 PM
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I want/expect nothing from you, persoanlly. What I expect every individual to do is examine the real data, not what the IPCC, Govn't and Al "I invented the internet" Gore tells you what is fact. It isn't fact.
Climate changes, always has, always will. And eventually, the Earth will be burnt to dust!
Climate changes, always has, always will. And eventually, the Earth will be burnt to dust!
07 March 2008, 02:37 PM
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The fact he has provided false infromation about "cliamte change". The fact is his wealth originated in the oil industry (Just ask the natives). The fact is he is now "involved" in one of the major "carbon trading" companies in Europe.
I smell a rotten egg. Nothing to do with "right wing", it's fact, unlike his mocunetary!
I smell a rotten egg. Nothing to do with "right wing", it's fact, unlike his mocunetary!
So we're back to conspiracy theories again
07 March 2008, 02:43 PM
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07 March 2008, 02:44 PM
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07 March 2008, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
"Its quite simple if the global average temperature goes up then the planet is warmer.
On the whole, taken as an average, temps are going up. "
Not in the last 10 years they're not! Why is that? Given all the CO2 we have released in that period and temperatures haven't gone up.
No-one can explain this it appears?
"Its quite simple if the global average temperature goes up then the planet is warmer.
On the whole, taken as an average, temps are going up. "
Not in the last 10 years they're not! Why is that? Given all the CO2 we have released in that period and temperatures haven't gone up.
No-one can explain this it appears?
07 March 2008, 02:46 PM
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07 March 2008, 03:12 PM
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07 March 2008, 03:17 PM
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No they can't, I've been banging on about that for the last day.
All they can do is trot out the government line, Global Warming is happening and there's no point even questioning it, because we believe everything we're told!
All they can do is trot out the government line, Global Warming is happening and there's no point even questioning it, because we believe everything we're told!
07 March 2008, 03:29 PM
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07 March 2008, 03:31 PM
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They are not 'my scientist' I have absolutely no axe to grind here. As I've said dozens of times of this and other GW threads, I keep my mind open to both sides of this debate, to rule out one or the other out would be a folly.
Last edited by Martin2005; 07 March 2008 at 10:34 PM.
07 March 2008, 03:53 PM
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So you agree that, given that the last 10 years have been perhaps the worst ever for CO2 emmissions and that temperatures in that time haven't risen, it appears unlikely that the two are linked?
07 March 2008, 04:01 PM
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No I don't agree (or disagree for that matter), I don't know, and I very much doubt that you do either
07 March 2008, 09:27 PM
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Lots of graphs
NCDC: Climate of 2005 - Annual Review
Keyword here is TREND.
Please, someone find me a downward trend - or at least a levelling off.
If not, then please back up some of you assertions that the planet isn't actually getting warmer without resorting to posting links to "IDONTBELEIVEINGLOBALWAMRING.com"
NCDC: Climate of 2005 - Annual Review
Keyword here is TREND.
Please, someone find me a downward trend - or at least a levelling off.
If not, then please back up some of you assertions that the planet isn't actually getting warmer without resorting to posting links to "IDONTBELEIVEINGLOBALWAMRING.com"
07 March 2008, 10:33 PM
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07 March 2008, 10:38 PM
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Lots of graphs
NCDC: Climate of 2005 - Annual Review
Keyword here is TREND.
Please, someone find me a downward trend - or at least a levelling off.
If not, then please back up some of you assertions that the planet isn't actually getting warmer without resorting to posting links to "IDONTBELEIVEINGLOBALWAMRING.com"
NCDC: Climate of 2005 - Annual Review
Keyword here is TREND.
Please, someone find me a downward trend - or at least a levelling off.
If not, then please back up some of you assertions that the planet isn't actually getting warmer without resorting to posting links to "IDONTBELEIVEINGLOBALWAMRING.com"
08 March 2008, 11:06 AM
#229
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I want/expect nothing from you, persoanlly. What I expect every individual to do is examine the real data, not what the IPCC, Govn't and Al "I invented the internet" Gore tells you what is fact. It isn't fact.
Climate changes, always has, always will. And eventually, the Earth will be burnt to dust!
Climate changes, always has, always will. And eventually, the Earth will be burnt to dust!
Did you actually read my posts before you quoted them or was that too difficult?
Les
08 March 2008, 11:26 AM
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08 March 2008, 12:36 PM
#231
If Global warming is happening and if it is man-made, then the only way to stop it getting worse is to curb population growth and fully switch to nuclear power. No amount of panicing green lefties is going to achieve this. Given your choice of words about the subject in this thread (which contradict your stated position to be on the fence), you are clearly a paid up member of the panicing club
08 March 2008, 02:59 PM
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If Global warming is happening and if it is man-made, then the only way to stop it getting worse is to curb population growth and fully switch to nuclear power. No amount of panicing green lefties is going to achieve this. Given your choice of words about the subject in this thread (which contradict your stated position to be on the fence), you are clearly a paid up member of the panicing club
No I'm not, because I challenge some of the conspiracy theorists, doesn't make me a greeny or a doom-monger, just a concerned citizen
08 March 2008, 03:01 PM
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08 March 2008, 03:15 PM
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Just because you have a concern about climate change does not make you some form of seal hugging peace-crisp lunatic.
The skeptical view is that it is a revenue rasing exercise. Which sort of completely falls down when you have a choice not to pay the extra taxes. If you live a greener lifestyle you don't pay the tax - that is the whole idea of duty - to dissaude people from doing things - It's the reason cigarettes and alcohol are so expensive. I don't see anyone calling "conspiracy" because **** cost £5.70 a packet. If you smoke, you pay for it, if you don;t you don't. If you drive 5 litre gussling car , you pay for it, if you don't you don't - You aren't forced to pay the duty, you have a choice.
Cutting CO2 emissions and other pollutants has got to be a positive thing, surely. Even if climate change is not down to man, it is still a positive thing.
08 March 2008, 03:15 PM
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08 March 2008, 03:21 PM
#236
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I think this is the point.
Just because you have a concern about climate change does not make you some form of seal hugging peace-crisp lunatic.
The skeptical view is that it is a revenue rasing exercise. Which sort of completely falls down when you have a choice not to pay the extra taxes. If you live a greener lifestyle you don't pay the tax - that is the whole idea of duty - to dissaude people from doing things - It's the reason cigarettes and alcohol are so expensive. I don't see anyone calling "conspiracy" because **** cost £5.70 a packet. If you smoke, you pay for it, if you don;t you don't. If you drive 5 litre gussling car , you pay for it, if you don't you don't - You aren't forced to pay the duty, you have a choice.
Cutting CO2 emissions and other pollutants has got to be a positive thing, surely. Even if climate change is not down to man, it is still a positive thing.
Just because you have a concern about climate change does not make you some form of seal hugging peace-crisp lunatic.
The skeptical view is that it is a revenue rasing exercise. Which sort of completely falls down when you have a choice not to pay the extra taxes. If you live a greener lifestyle you don't pay the tax - that is the whole idea of duty - to dissaude people from doing things - It's the reason cigarettes and alcohol are so expensive. I don't see anyone calling "conspiracy" because **** cost £5.70 a packet. If you smoke, you pay for it, if you don;t you don't. If you drive 5 litre gussling car , you pay for it, if you don't you don't - You aren't forced to pay the duty, you have a choice.
Cutting CO2 emissions and other pollutants has got to be a positive thing, surely. Even if climate change is not down to man, it is still a positive thing.
Are you expecting people to stop travelling? Must everyone now live within walking or cycling distance from their place of work?
Fuel is going up in price, so ALL transport is becoming more expensive. You really have no alternative.
As for cutting CO2 emissions, why is that a good thing? The earth is at one of it's lowest ever levels of CO2. It has had concentrations far in excess of what we have now for much of it's history, without any problem.
As for other pollutants, fair enough, but even then the earth would recover in a short time if we wiped ourselves and loads of other species out.
Once again, man arrogance makes him think he can harm something which has endured much worse than our paltry efforts.
Even if we do cause it all and cause a mass extinction, evolution needs it now and again. Don't forget, we are the result of a previous one......
Geezer
Last edited by Geezer; 08 March 2008 at 03:24 PM.
08 March 2008, 03:58 PM
#238
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But you don't have a choice for fuel duty.
Are you expecting people to stop travelling? Must everyone now live within walking or cycling distance from their place of work?
Fuel is going up in price, so ALL transport is becoming more expensive. You really have no alternative.
As for cutting CO2 emissions, why is that a good thing? The earth is at one of it's lowest ever levels of CO2. It has had concentrations far in excess of what we have now for much of it's history, without any problem.
As for other pollutants, fair enough, but even then the earth would recover in a short time if we wiped ourselves and loads of other species out.
Once again, man arrogance makes him think he can harm something which has endured much worse than our paltry efforts.
Even if we do cause it all and cause a mass extinction, evolution needs it now and again. Don't forget, we are the result of a previous one......
Geezer
Are you expecting people to stop travelling? Must everyone now live within walking or cycling distance from their place of work?
Fuel is going up in price, so ALL transport is becoming more expensive. You really have no alternative.
As for cutting CO2 emissions, why is that a good thing? The earth is at one of it's lowest ever levels of CO2. It has had concentrations far in excess of what we have now for much of it's history, without any problem.
As for other pollutants, fair enough, but even then the earth would recover in a short time if we wiped ourselves and loads of other species out.
Once again, man arrogance makes him think he can harm something which has endured much worse than our paltry efforts.
Even if we do cause it all and cause a mass extinction, evolution needs it now and again. Don't forget, we are the result of a previous one......
Geezer
This whole debate has never been about whether the Earth will endure, of course it bloody well will! It's about what impact GW may/or may not have upon mankind, and the social-economic and humanitarian effects
Last edited by Martin2005; 08 March 2008 at 04:01 PM.
08 March 2008, 04:14 PM
#239
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NASA
World Climate Report
Science Daily
As for my last point, yes, I was being rather flippant
But still I don't think mankind will be seriously dented, we will just adapt, (ok, maybe a few economic crashes and wars, othing too serious.......)but as IMO it's nothing to do with us, why worry?
Geezer
World Climate Report
Science Daily
As for my last point, yes, I was being rather flippant
But still I don't think mankind will be seriously dented, we will just adapt, (ok, maybe a few economic crashes and wars, othing too serious.......)but as IMO it's nothing to do with us, why worry?
Geezer
08 March 2008, 04:29 PM
#240
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It's also occuring at the other pole, Zwally et al 2005 found increases in Arctic ice mass of 11Bn (+/-3) tonnes /year over a whole decade! (1992-2002) j05j071 509..527
The only area where ice is disappearing is where it is in contact with warming ocean currents. Land ice is increasing as it has been for decades.
This was at a time when the IPCC and their acolytes were bleating on about vanishing ice caps.
BTW ice caps are not a normal state for this planet. Historically the majority of the time they have not been present.
Last edited by DocJock; 08 March 2008 at 04:31 PM. Reason: added Zwally link