PeteBrant

The percentage hasnt gone up though - the fuel escalator was stopped some years ago
Go to LA, or Athens or any other part of the world that suffers from Smog as a direct result of traffic and other emissions.

Air quality is pretty valueable.

PeteBrant

BBC NEWS | UK | Antarctic's ice 'melting faster'

Melting ice cap, melting glaciers (disappearing rivers and lakes)

Arctic Melting Fast; May Swamp U.S. Coasts by 2099

NOAA Scientists Say Arctic Ice Is Melting Faster Than Expected - washingtonpost.com

Scientists fear ice caps melting faster than predicted | World news | guardian.co.uk

DocJock

None of those contradict the Zwally study.
The surface area of the ice sheet is decreasing but it is thickening.
The overall effect is more ice, billions of tons more ice. (hence more calving)It is disingenuous to show pictures of less area covered and imply there is less ice overall.

In fact there are still vast areas of sea ice which were open water (and navigated) up until the middle of the last millenium.

As I said, the norm is for no sea ice at all and very little on land.

Glaciers? Advancing more than contracting overall RECENT GLACIER ADVANCES IN NORWAY AND NEW ZEALAND: A COMPARISON

Anyway, glaciers are daynamic and cyclical in nature. They are never constant, they are either advancing or retreating.


As an aside, don't you feel that the language in most of those links you have posted is deliberately vague so as to make them more dramatic? Lots of 'could', 'may' and 'possibly' fudging makes for good soundbites but there is no science there, particularly as the computer models used for these 'predictions' still rely on the algorithms which assume the atmosphere is infinitely thick with no boundary layer effects as described by Zágoni and Miskolczi (whose equations actually produce results which are a close fit to the observed data without "adjustments", unlike the IPCC ones)

Anyhow, nice to discuss... will read those links in more detail later, ta.

PeteBrant

Just to clarify, I wasn't posting those links to be a contrary git, just to show the spin put on depending on the side of the debate.

I certainly think that the pro-climate change lobby do not do themselves any favours with the associsation of everything with global warming. Nor do the media help issues by doing the same thing - I saw a BBC article the other day about synthetic life, you know, creating bacteria and such like - And the BBC Have your say on the story was "what will the effect of this be on the environment?"

It's no wonder people get turned off by it.

Barmyclown

In fact this year the BAS recorded the highest levels of sea ice in the antarctic for over ten years. NASA has just reported that over ten years of increasing average tempuratures, have been wiped out in the last 12 months. And finally some eastern Bloc scientist is worried about a mini cold snap happenning, due to zero sun spot activity on the Sun at the beginning of this years season. The last time this happened, the thames froze. And mr dickens got everyone thinking that white christmases were the norm.

Jase

warrenm2

Actually I think there is something in this Global Warming after all - I have noticed its warmer than it was only a few months ago.....

warrenm2

oh and theres NO evidence that the earth is warming/changing any faster than any other time as accurate historical records are only about 100 years old

Geezer

Now you're moving the goal posts. Smog has nothing to do with Co2, just look at London in the early parts of the 20th Century. That is a very localised effect.

Geezer

MrJim

Yes it gets on my ****,lets fill up with petrol and go for a blast sod the enviroment.

warrenm2

From todays Sunday Telegraph.....


Last week, virtually unreported in Britain, the extraordinary winter weather of 2008 elsewhere in the world continued. In the USA, there were blizzards as far south as Texas and Arkansas, while in northern states and Canada what they are calling "the winter from hell" has continued to break records going back in some cases to 1873. Meanwhile in Asia more details emerged of the catastrophe caused by the northern hemisphere's greatest snow cover since 1966.

In Afghanistan, where they have lost 300,000 cattle, the human death toll has risen above 1,500. In China, the havoc created by what its media call "the Winter Snow Disaster" has continued, not least in Tibet, where six months of snow and record low temperatures have killed 500,000 animals, leaving 3 million people on the edge of starvation.
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It might have seemed timely that in New York an array of leading climatologists and other experts should have gathered for the most high-powered international conference yet to question the "consensus" on global warming. After three days of what the chairman called "the kind of free-spirited debate that is virtually absent from the global warming alarmist camp", the 500 delegates issued the Manhattan Declaration, stating that attempts by governments to reduce CO2 emissions would "markedly diminish further prosperity" while having "no appreciable impact" on the Earth's warming.

This inevitably attracted the kind of hysterical abuse that has become so familiar from warmist fanatics, tellingly contrasting with the measured arguments put forward by the scientists present. One was Anthony Watts, the meteorologist who last year famously forced Nasa's Goddard Institute to correct a fundamental error in its data on US surface temperatures, to show that the hottest decade of the 20th century was not the 1990s but the 1930s.

On his website, Watts Up With That, he is currently posting a corrected version of the global temperature graph, combining satellite and surface data from all four main official sources. A measure of his scrupulous reporting is that although this shows a recent dramatic dip in temperatures, he cautiously explains that it is not yet conclusive evidence that the world has entered a new cooling phase (as he points out, there was temporarily an even sharper drop after the "peak" El Niño year 1998).

But can we doubt that, if the data showed the opposite, the media would be rushing to report this as yet further "proof" that the planet is heating out of control? The fact is that, for all their caveats that this drop in temperatures can be explained by the cooling effect of La Niña, the official orthodoxy that "more CO2 means more warming" is facing its most serious challenge yet. In light of the colossal price we are all in so many ways being asked to pay for it, the data in coming years will be more than interesting.

warrenm2

another interesting link..
DailyTech - Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

By the time anyone gets near doing anything worthwhile, we will be all dead!

Klaatu

A C&P from another site, found no link to it so far....

"There's an upside to the extreme cold temperatures northern Canadians have endured in the last few weeks: scientists say it's been helping winter sea ice grow across the Arctic, where the ice shrank to record-low levels last year. Temperatures have stayed well in the -30s C and -40s C range since late January throughout the North, with the mercury dipping past -50 C in some areas. Satellite images are showing that the cold spell is helping the sea ice expand in coverage by about 2 million square kilometres, compared to the average winter coverage in the previous three years.
"It's nice to know that the ice is recovering," Josefino Comiso, a senior research scientist with the Cryospheric Sciences Branch of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Centre in Maryland, told CBC News on Thursday. "That means that maybe the perennial ice would not go down as low as last year." Canadian scientists are also noticing growing ice coverage in most areas of the Arctic, including the southern Davis Strait and the Beaufort Sea."

Geezer

After the initial momentum of the IPCC, it does seem now that some very reputable sources are starting to question it and come up with hard scientific fact that CO2 is not the problem everyone thinks.

Hopefully, the world will see sense. Sadly, even if it does, you can bet the taxes won't come down

Geezer

PeteBrant

I don't follow.

Why would the US sign up to Bali, and the subsequently agree to legallly enforceable emmisions limits if it wasn't utterly convinced by the science? I mean economically it does it no favours whatsoever to agree to enforce emissions limits.

Klaatu

Data from four independent sources suggest Co2 concentration is not related to tempearture rise.

It is fact that Enron first muted a "carbon trading" system, for what benefit?

Why would the US sign up? To sway voters and keep thos in power now, after the election. Or allow "strong believers" to vote for an alternative, K Rudd in favour of J Howard, an alection campaign sold to fools, and the fools came and voted.

PeteBrant

You think that an Evironmental ticket will get you elected in the states?

Paul3446

Gotta love this link.

DailyTech - Solar Activity Diminishes; Researchers Predict Another Ice Age

What's the betting that in 10 years time we'll be desparately trying to produce more CO2 to keep temperatures up!

Leslie

I wonder if anyone can explain why in spite of all this extra sea ice etc. that the British winter is so much warmer with considerably less snow than it used to be not all that many years ago.

Les

PeteBrant

So don't buy one...

Paul3446

Quote:
"I wonder if anyone can explain why in spite of all this extra sea ice etc. that the British winter is so much warmer with considerably less snow than it used to be not all that many years ago."


What on earth has the amount of sea ice got to do with how much snow we get in England?

Klaatu

It's worked in many recent elections, Australia for instance. Those wanting to stay in power will say anything to remain in power. Fortunately, in the US, presidents are limited to 3 terms I believe, unlike Australia, NZ and the UK etc.

Klaatu

A "carbon levy" will be applied to all products, food, clothing etc etc, so it's not just a simple issue of not purchasing a product. I believe there are plans to lable products with a Co2 rating, similar to nutritional labeling.

Klaatu

If ice in the Arctic melts and flows into the Atlantic, cooling on it's way, typically leads to a very cold North America/Europe. Western Europe's weather is largely controlled by the currents in the Atlantic (Atlantic Conveyor/Gulf Stream).

In the Pacific there is the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO) effect which is causing the cooler, wet weather oon the east cost of Australia currently.

Klaatu

This is eactly what Russian scientists, those not on the IPCC payrole, have been saying.

No-one can hear people scream in space.

Klaatu

As we say down here, Yeah right!

Quote...March 1999.

"....

But it will emerge from my dialogue with the American people. I've traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system.

...."