Attacks on firecrews - disgusting!
12 February 2008, 09:05 AM
#61
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,490
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anyone see The Choir? Showed a photo of pupils from the 50's or 60's.
Every one of the kids looked smart ,decent, tidy.Yes I do think it impacts on behaviour.Obviously concerned about how school should be treated.With respect
Then seeing the lovely children of 2007/8.Rag tag bunch of scruffy,mouthy,grungy,gobby,smart****,answer back disgusting products of our 'express yourself' age.
Bring back National Service,the cane,free handed policeman not worried about how he deals with them and you WILL have a better country than one that analyses these brats rather than sorts them on the spot
There is another 'infringing kids Human Rights' furore going on at the moment if you check the news.Ridiculous
Every one of the kids looked smart ,decent, tidy.Yes I do think it impacts on behaviour.Obviously concerned about how school should be treated.With respect
Then seeing the lovely children of 2007/8.Rag tag bunch of scruffy,mouthy,grungy,gobby,smart****,answer back disgusting products of our 'express yourself' age.
Bring back National Service,the cane,free handed policeman not worried about how he deals with them and you WILL have a better country than one that analyses these brats rather than sorts them on the spot
There is another 'infringing kids Human Rights' furore going on at the moment if you check the news.Ridiculous
12 February 2008, 09:23 AM
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
Another thing that has changed for the worse is school rules. When I was at school there was a strict dress code, hair had to be smart etc. If you didn't meet the standards of the school you were sent home. I took it up with my eldests school not so long ago about the fact my eldest has longish scruffy hair encouraged by his mother and shouldn't the school be telling her to smarten him up and tell her his hair style/length is not acceptable for school attendance. The schools reply was they can't take that approach any more due to human rights legislation and walking a very fine line with what they can and can not control!
Now whilst these are only minor things they all add to the ever growing list of things contributing to kids knowing they can do what the hell the like with no come back because of 'human rights' legislation and no one can tell them what to do because they are kids
Now whilst these are only minor things they all add to the ever growing list of things contributing to kids knowing they can do what the hell the like with no come back because of 'human rights' legislation and no one can tell them what to do because they are kids
12 February 2008, 09:27 AM
#63
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Worthing..
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another thing that has changed for the worse is school rules. When I was at school there was a strict dress code, hair had to be smart etc. If you didn't meet the standards of the school you were sent home. I took it up with my eldests school not so long ago about the fact my eldest has longish scruffy hair encouraged by his mother and shouldn't the school be telling her to smarten him up and tell her his hair style/length is not acceptable for school attendance. The schools reply was they can't take that approach any more due to human rights legislation and walking a very fine line with what they can and can not control!
If you don't like it - Isn't it your job to control your child rather than the schools?
Now whilst these are only minor things they all add to the ever growing list of things contributing to kids knowing they can do what the hell the like with no come back because of 'human rights' legislation and no one can tell them what to do because they are kids
I am almost positve there is no proven link between bad behaviour and scruffy hair.
12 February 2008, 09:51 AM
#64
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Disco, Disco!
Posts: 21,825
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
we nearly all rebelled at school, part of growing up, i do not ever remember backchatting a teacher or stabbing someone because they 'dissed' me.
Respect for all!
12 February 2008, 09:56 AM
#65
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Worthing..
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Really? What ever?
Were you victorian?
Thankfully this doesn't happen 99.99999999999% of the time, which is evident by peole not getting stabbed 37 times a day.
Ever thought of writing for the Mail?
12 February 2008, 10:08 AM
#66
12 February 2008, 10:10 AM
#67
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Disco, Disco!
Posts: 21,825
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I left school in 1980, i do not have a criminal record either so no, not victorian just have respect for others, treat them as i expect to be treated myself and do my best to bring up two kids thanks!
do not read the mail peter, suggest you go write to the guardian about the right wing vigilates on SN who need jailing.
12 February 2008, 10:12 AM
#68
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Worthing..
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12 February 2008, 10:13 AM
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
He doesn't live with me and believe it or not if I was to have his hair cut she would stop me from seeing him. Yes i'd be able to go to court but she knows damn well that would cost me loads and take a long time. So not that easy.
Of course there isn't any relation between scruffy hair and trouble makers, and you're just being stupid by suggesting thats what I am saying. What I am getting at it doesn't help by schools no longer having the control over kids they used to have, they don't seem to be able to do anything anymore to control pupils as discipline is just no longer allowed.
Kids should be disciplined at school as well as at home.
Of course there isn't any relation between scruffy hair and trouble makers, and you're just being stupid by suggesting thats what I am saying. What I am getting at it doesn't help by schools no longer having the control over kids they used to have, they don't seem to be able to do anything anymore to control pupils as discipline is just no longer allowed.
Kids should be disciplined at school as well as at home.
12 February 2008, 10:14 AM
#70
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Worthing..
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Juvenile crime is not a new phenomenom. It's Juvenile on Juvenile violence that needs to be looked at.
12 February 2008, 10:17 AM
#71
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Worthing..
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
However far be it from me to say anything, but I'm not sure going via the school to encourage your son to have a hair cut is the best move ever.
Of course there isn't any relation between scruffy hair and trouble makers, and you're just being stupid by suggesting thats what I am saying. What I am getting at it doesn't help by schools no longer having the control over kids they used to have, they don't seem to be able to do anything anymore to control pupils as discipline is just no longer allowed.
Kids should be disciplined at school as well as at home.
Kids should be disciplined at school as well as at home.
They are - in the form of detentions etc - I don't agree with corporal punishment at all, so I'm not sure what else they can do.
As for sending kids home for dress code, as long as its not completely taking the **** (in which case, they usually do get sent home) then I don't see the problem really.
12 February 2008, 10:21 AM
#72
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We all have our own views and are entitled to put them here on this forum because that is what it is for as much as anything else. I have seen no signs of trolling so far on this thread.
I will just add to my earlier post that too often these days, those senior in command of any of the services etc. are very conscious of their own careers and are more likely to come down on the side of what their political bosses want to hear. That of course will influence them in the actions they are likely to take especially when there is a bit of "human rights" concerned.
Les
I will just add to my earlier post that too often these days, those senior in command of any of the services etc. are very conscious of their own careers and are more likely to come down on the side of what their political bosses want to hear. That of course will influence them in the actions they are likely to take especially when there is a bit of "human rights" concerned.
Les
12 February 2008, 10:26 AM
#73
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Disco, Disco!
Posts: 21,825
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the kids who do not chose to commit crime, have a criminal record and respect thier parents are not the problem and not who is being disgussed, only a complete idiot would think that they are!
Newsflash - antisocial behaviour is a big problem that needs to be tackled and delt with. It is not getting better, more widespread and some people are being sewriouslty injured and in some cases dying!
Now then people have died over the years for all sorts of reasons, even in victorian times people died, whilst i was not there myself I do understand this is the case - from anectodal evidence although this might as well be dismissed as unrelaible.
I know one of your favorite cop-outs is to say that there is not a problem so no need to fix it,
Antiscocial behaviour as a whole
Do you feel that there is/is not a problem?
Do you feel that everything is being done to combat it
Do you feel that anything else could be done
Last edited by The Zohan; 12 February 2008 at 10:28 AM.
12 February 2008, 10:36 AM
#74
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Worthing..
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Newsflash -
the kids who do not chose to commit crime, have a criminal record and respect thier parents are not the problem and not who is being disgussed, only a complete idiot would think that they are!
Newsflash - antisocial behaviour is a big problem that needs to be tackled and delt with. It is not getting better, more widespread and some people are being sewriouslty injured and in some cases dying!
Now then people have died over the years for all sorts of reasons, even in victorian times people died, whilst i was not there myself I do understand this is the case - from anectodal evidence although this might as well be dismissed as unrelaible.
I know one of your favorite cop-outs is to say that there is not a problem so no need to fix it,
Antiscocial behaviour as a whole
Do you feel that there is/is not a problem?
Do you feel that everything is being done to combat it
Do you feel that anything else could be done
the kids who do not chose to commit crime, have a criminal record and respect thier parents are not the problem and not who is being disgussed, only a complete idiot would think that they are!
Newsflash - antisocial behaviour is a big problem that needs to be tackled and delt with. It is not getting better, more widespread and some people are being sewriouslty injured and in some cases dying!
Now then people have died over the years for all sorts of reasons, even in victorian times people died, whilst i was not there myself I do understand this is the case - from anectodal evidence although this might as well be dismissed as unrelaible.
I know one of your favorite cop-outs is to say that there is not a problem so no need to fix it,
Antiscocial behaviour as a whole
Do you feel that there is/is not a problem?
Do you feel that everything is being done to combat it
Do you feel that anything else could be done
It's obviously a problem, although perhaps not quite to the epidemic levels that some seem to think. I think there there are measures being taken to combat it, and as for what else could be done - I don't know, I would need to sit and think about it - But it would be along the lines of curfews and tags as is the case.
As a father of a teenager I know that the biggest thing you can take away from them is the freedom to go out and about.
If you tag them and tell them if they leave the house after a certain time (and I am talking about repeat offenders) they will be picked up and put into cells, then perhaps something will happen.
It has to be a two pronged thing though - Some carrot as well as some stick.
Glad to see you accept anecdotal evidence as being unreliable.
12 February 2008, 10:48 AM
#75
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Disco, Disco!
Posts: 21,825
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not saying that there isn't a problem, I'm saying it's not a new one.
It's obviously a problem, although perhaps not quite to the epidemic levels that some seem to think. I think there there are measures being taken to combat it, and as for what else could be done - I don't know, I would need to sit and think about it - But it would be along the lines of curfews and tags as is the case.
As a father of a teenager I know that the biggest thing you can take away from them is the freedom to go out and about.
If you tag them and tell them if they leave the house after a certain time (and I am talking about repeat offenders) they will be picked up and put into cells, then perhaps something will happen.
It has to be a two pronged thing though - Some carrot as well as some stick.
Glad to see you accept anecdotal evidence as being unreliable.
It's obviously a problem, although perhaps not quite to the epidemic levels that some seem to think. I think there there are measures being taken to combat it, and as for what else could be done - I don't know, I would need to sit and think about it - But it would be along the lines of curfews and tags as is the case.
As a father of a teenager I know that the biggest thing you can take away from them is the freedom to go out and about.
If you tag them and tell them if they leave the house after a certain time (and I am talking about repeat offenders) they will be picked up and put into cells, then perhaps something will happen.
It has to be a two pronged thing though - Some carrot as well as some stick.
Glad to see you accept anecdotal evidence as being unreliable.
agree about the freedom, however you and i may well restrict our kids freedom, how many other parents would do or enforce a punishment like this i wonder.
Tags, easy to remove and breahes not always enforced.
I do believe a zero tollerance approach should be tried, some proper boundraries and rules laid out for all, and those who choose to break them are then punished severely.
those that do choose to behave have facilities or access to other, more constructive things to do.
I do not feel that we are that far apart and i do feel the carrot and stick it the right approach but the stick needs to carry enough weight as to deter, or really punish those who do choose to do wrong!
as for epidenic, not sure what epidemic is, Gary Newloves wife might feel it is in her case as do may others who live with the problems each and every day.
Life is hard, for some anyway and it is unfair to have it made worse or taken away by those who chose to do so for no other reasons than their own entertainment and because the believe they can!
12 February 2008, 10:57 AM
#76
Guest
Posts: n/a
That boils down to political correctness and human rights being exploited way too far in my book.
12 February 2008, 11:08 AM
#77
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Disco, Disco!
Posts: 21,825
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12 February 2008, 11:18 AM
#78
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Worthing..
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12 February 2008, 11:32 AM
#79
Guest
Posts: n/a
A child is legally under adult supervision until the age of 18 when it then has the legal right to make its own decisions. Until then being told by adults what is right and wrong and what they can and can not do is how it should be.
12 February 2008, 11:36 AM
#80
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Worthing..
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm afraid going to school isn't about making a fashion statement. School apart from learning subjects is about learning discipline and conforming to rules. Its about preparing you for working/adult life and how to succeed. Doing what you want when you want how you want at school is what is wrong with todays youth because thats then how they think they can act the rest of their lives and conforming to society doesn't apply to them.
Kids , on the whole, don't think they can do what they want, when they want.
Good luck with that.
It simply doesn't work that way - By the time a child is 13, 14, 15 all you can do is advise. And trust in the ground work you put in when they were growing up to tell right from work.
Are you seriously telling me you think you are right to tell a child of 17 how to dress? how to wear his hair?
12 February 2008, 11:43 AM
#81
Guest
Posts: n/a
Whilst he or she is at school then yes. Just the same as if they were employed and that employer said what was acceptable as dress/appearance code whist at work.
Going to uni is when they can get away with doing 'whatever' as no one gives a toss about students
Going to uni is when they can get away with doing 'whatever' as no one gives a toss about students
12 February 2008, 11:49 AM
#82
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Worthing..
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FWIW as one parent to another, and I don't mean this in a patronising way at all, I would say your efforts would be far better spent in connecting with your son as he is, rather than worrying about what his hair is like.
Honestly mate, you get to see your kids growing up once, and its reduced enough as it is when it's every other weekend or such like - Don't waste it.
12 February 2008, 12:35 PM
#83
Guest
Posts: n/a
He knows my views on his hair cut and I know he wont change it and has his mums backing which is where my wishes stop having any reality to them. My issue is more with his mum as she allows him to get away with murder where as I don't and believe he should do as I say being his parent.
However he knows that when he comes round to stay with me and my other half and his half brother and sister he has to behave differently to how he does at home with him mum. He is essentially having two upbringings, unfortunately he is spending most of his time in the house with the wrong upbringing being allowed to do what he wants at the age of 10 and goes against what I believe in - ie discipline and doing what your parents say.
However he knows that when he comes round to stay with me and my other half and his half brother and sister he has to behave differently to how he does at home with him mum. He is essentially having two upbringings, unfortunately he is spending most of his time in the house with the wrong upbringing being allowed to do what he wants at the age of 10 and goes against what I believe in - ie discipline and doing what your parents say.
13 February 2008, 08:20 AM
#84
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,490
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lets forget the hair thing now! (though I totally agree B2Z)
Bottom line is children's attitudes have changed hugely over the last few decades.They have pushed the boundaries and we have let them become sloppy messes.
I bet the stone throwing, firecrew baiting lot have all got '10 gcse's' as well.
PB ,you can champion the kids of today as much as you want.I just preferred smart,respectful kids.Respectful of parents and figures of authority.Never thought I'd be reading news that there are 40 attacks a week on fire crews.Did you?
Bottom line is children's attitudes have changed hugely over the last few decades.They have pushed the boundaries and we have let them become sloppy messes.
I bet the stone throwing, firecrew baiting lot have all got '10 gcse's' as well.
PB ,you can champion the kids of today as much as you want.I just preferred smart,respectful kids.Respectful of parents and figures of authority.Never thought I'd be reading news that there are 40 attacks a week on fire crews.Did you?
Last edited by lozgti; 13 February 2008 at 12:42 PM.
13 February 2008, 08:33 AM
#85
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Worthing..
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Was it more? Less? I have no idea.
I really don't know what era you lived in with these smart respectful kids - There has alwasy been fashion which "elders" dont agree with.
Mods and rockers of the 60's are respectible middle aged, and in some cases pensioners now.
13 February 2008, 11:42 AM
#86
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can remember when most children, regardless of their background, were generally smart, good mannered, respectful to adults, and were not prone to attacking firemen, ambulance crews, or anybody much for that matter.
What happened in this brave new world then? Is this the real meaning of the "third way"
Les
What happened in this brave new world then? Is this the real meaning of the "third way"
Les
13 February 2008, 07:15 PM
#87
BANNED
Me and my mates, we grew through our teenage years through the late 90s. We
were 17 when we first started drinking, in a field hiding from everyone and then
sneaking home about 9pm straight to bed. These days they get pissed at
about 13-14 years old and gloat about it in the street, thinking they are clever, vandelising, and
attacking fire crew etc etc. Times has changed, and i blame the lazy parents
were 17 when we first started drinking, in a field hiding from everyone and then
sneaking home about 9pm straight to bed. These days they get pissed at
about 13-14 years old and gloat about it in the street, thinking they are clever, vandelising, and
attacking fire crew etc etc. Times has changed, and i blame the lazy parents
Last edited by Will; 13 February 2008 at 07:18 PM.
13 February 2008, 08:06 PM
#88
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Worthing..
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I went through my teenage years in the mid 80's - My first drunken experience was at 13 - and I had several between that age an 18..... Well to date really.
My oldest at 17 has never come home drunk nor has my 13 year old.
Go figure...
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
jayallen
Was it you?
4
19 September 2015 07:42 PM