Fat People and Helping Them.
12 February 2008, 01:54 PM
#61
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I always remember seeing Jasper Carrot live and going on about about being 'ist', whether sexist, ageist, racist or, in this case , 'fattist' ... He said that fat people are fat because this hole (pointing at his mouth) is bigger than this hole (pointing at his ****) ..... Basically true, in the vast majority of cases, exceptions as pointed out above accepted!
If you've ever wondered why you (in most cases) put on weight as you get older but as kids there was no problem, consider the fact that once you leave school/uni/wotever, youy get a job that usually involves sitting at a desk most of the day. So you leave the house, sit in the car, sit at your desk all day, sit in the car on the way home, then sit in front of the box all night as your day in the office was so *exhausting* ..... then people wonder why they're getting fat!
And 'rushing' around all day looking after kids/cleaning the house is not exercise.......
Dave
If you've ever wondered why you (in most cases) put on weight as you get older but as kids there was no problem, consider the fact that once you leave school/uni/wotever, youy get a job that usually involves sitting at a desk most of the day. So you leave the house, sit in the car, sit at your desk all day, sit in the car on the way home, then sit in front of the box all night as your day in the office was so *exhausting* ..... then people wonder why they're getting fat!
And 'rushing' around all day looking after kids/cleaning the house is not exercise.......
Dave
12 February 2008, 02:00 PM
#62
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Through all of this you STILL don't put forward a solution: just shoot down those that do, and yet fail to comprehend that a 100% outright solution cannot be given in a 5 line post! 
Blindingly obvious that your differentiating an ACCIDENT from a prolonged addiction and self-abuse. People don't get accidentally fat (with the cases put by the over-analytical (
) where there are people out there who will point out exceptions such as the ones involved in a bike crash, suffer severe arthritus thereafter and get fat through severe immobility )
Anyway, vehicle insurance already cover damages 3rd party health, it should also cover the health of the policy holder too (as in after-care after emergency treatment).
Same with silly death-sports. One should get insurance cover for it, which would supplement the NHS to treat them after the initial emergecy A&E treatment (which if you note people of an excessive mass would still be entitled to).
What an odd point! Would you knowingly live on the edge of an erroding cliff? Environment is not an ailment. There are contributaries, such as every kid suffereing some form of alledged asthma. And from a global scale, it is something out of someone's personal control; there is no guarantee that any environmental location is 100% safe to one's health and is out the scope of reasonable control to anyone on a individual level. However, drinking to excess can be controlled on an individual level, as can modulation of one's excercise and intake to suit their own metobolic rate - instead of invasive surgery of having staples and bands put in their digestive tract to control it it for them - to phsyically limit what they can digest and make them "feel" full.
The idea of "lets cut open every fatty and fit gastric bands on the NHS will sort people's problem" ideolgy thats suggest that this the solution is alarming at best.
Don't you realise that YOU yourself are trolling by making that very statment and implying myself as being as such? If I was such inclined, I could infract you for it. But I at least can differentiate between opinion and trolling. Make note of that, please.
You've been on this board for equally as long I have. And thus far haven't seen anywhere that put you in charge of this board. So whilst the administrator hasn't seen the need or call for me to be removed, I will remain;
So at the very least try and respect that I am equally allowed to reside and post here as much as you are.
Besides the obvious trolling and personally aimed remark, don't you realise that the NHS is stretched beyond its limits; What was once a service to treat severe illness is now a all-for-one cure for every ailment under the sun, be it self inflicted or mental inability to control oneselve to a common cold. It is not sustainable in its current state, adding to the list of provided services is not helping.
And if you think looking at a 5 line post on a forum is going to the all-in one solution to the problem, thats very wishful thinking indeed.
Blindingly obvious that your differentiating an ACCIDENT from a prolonged addiction and self-abuse. People don't get accidentally fat (with the cases put by the over-analytical (
) where there are people out there who will point out exceptions such as the ones involved in a bike crash, suffer severe arthritus thereafter and get fat through severe immobility )Anyway, vehicle insurance already cover damages 3rd party health, it should also cover the health of the policy holder too (as in after-care after emergency treatment).
Same with silly death-sports. One should get insurance cover for it, which would supplement the NHS to treat them after the initial emergecy A&E treatment (which if you note people of an excessive mass would still be entitled to).
What an odd point! Would you knowingly live on the edge of an erroding cliff?
Environment is not an ailment. There are contributaries, such as every kid suffereing some form of alledged asthma. And from a global scale, it is something out of someone's personal control; there is no guarantee that any environmental location is 100% safe to one's health and is out the scope of reasonable control to anyone on a individual level. However, drinking to excess can be controlled on an individual level, as can modulation of one's excercise and intake to suit their own metobolic rate - instead of invasive surgery of having staples and bands put in their digestive tract to control it it for them - to phsyically limit what they can digest and make them "feel" full.The idea of "lets cut open every fatty and fit gastric bands on the NHS will sort people's problem" ideolgy thats suggest that this the solution is alarming at best.
Don't you realise that YOU yourself are trolling by making that very statment and implying myself as being as such? If I was such inclined, I could infract you for it. But I at least can differentiate between opinion and trolling. Make note of that, please.
You've been on this board for equally as long I have. And thus far haven't seen anywhere that put you in charge of this board. So whilst the administrator hasn't seen the need or call for me to be removed, I will remain;
So at the very least try and respect that I am equally allowed to reside and post here as much as you are.
Besides the obvious trolling and personally aimed remark, don't you realise that the NHS is stretched beyond its limits; What was once a service to treat severe illness is now a all-for-one cure for every ailment under the sun, be it self inflicted or mental inability to control oneselve to a common cold. It is not sustainable in its current state, adding to the list of provided services is not helping.
And if you think looking at a 5 line post on a forum is going to the all-in one solution to the problem, thats very wishful thinking indeed.
There is no solution to the "problem". I would imagine that more NHS money is wasted on people with common colds than very obese people having stomach staples fitted but the media like to pick up on these things and proceed to tell us that 50% of the population are having this treatment, and tax payers are covering the cost.
I don't agree that these operations should be done on a huge scale, but for a very small percentage of people that will die unless they have the surgery I think we can cope with it, or would everyone prefer that these people just die so long as it saves the NHS a few quid?
Yes they may have gotten themselves into that situation, but there may be mitigating circumstances, and just because someone isn't as strong or have as much willpower as the ultra strong folk on SN doesn't mean they should be cast aside.
12 February 2008, 02:56 PM
#63
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Right, so they eat more than me and worse food than me, and yet they are thin. I eat around an average of 700 calories a day, and the recommendation for a woman is 2000. Go figure, it would seem to me there is more to being larger than just what goes in. If I was putting away 5000 calories a day, then I would accept I was doing wrong, but that isn't the case.
As you'll see from my previous comment, I have very little time for people who go to the NHS asking for surgery when a sensible diet and excercise is all thats needed.
In your case you seem to consume 700 calories a day and live an active life. How do you manage this?
Purely from a chemical and physical point of veiw, breathing, heartbeat and movement require energy, that energy is pretty constant amongst all people (I've yet to meet a person who can cheat the laws of physics, if you walk up some stairs, you have to use at least the energy you gain in lifting your mass through a given distance).
I'm an absolute healthy eating nut myself and often find when people say they eat very little and are overwieght its because they make bad food choices, for example, eat lots of bread, low cocoa chocolate, fizzy drinks, refined carbohydrate rich foods and empty foods (foods with little or no nutritional content).
Its also been scientifically proven that people who are overweight do NOT have slower metabolisms per se (enough to make it a very special case if you do have a slow metabolism).
I can't find the exact study I have in mind but the BBC has a good article on it here:
BBC - Health - Healthy living - Myths about metabolism
the first line of which is
"There's a common belief that people who are overweight have a slow metabolism (burn energy slowly), while thin people have a fast metabolism (burn energy quickly). This is a myth."
As I said, I'd be very interested to know what your average daily food and drink intake is, as I'd consider 700 calories far too low for a healthy person, and for you to be overwieght on 700 a day and living an active life would be an extemely interesting case.
12 February 2008, 03:36 PM
#64
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Dave
PS: just out of interest last night I added up the calories in a banana, 3 apples and a Frusli bar. It came to about 500. Can't see you eating just more than that per day and putting on weight!
PPS: no, don't ask why ......
12 February 2008, 03:48 PM
#65
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Keep a foor diary Lisa and let us know what you eat in a normal day. And that DOES include the 1/2 lb bar of Galaxy before lunch and the half packet of Jaffa cakes just!
Dave
PS: just out of interest last night I added up the calories in a banana, 3 apples and a Frusli bar. It came to about 500. Can't see you eating just more than that per day and putting on weight!
PPS: no, don't ask why ......
Dave
PS: just out of interest last night I added up the calories in a banana, 3 apples and a Frusli bar. It came to about 500. Can't see you eating just more than that per day and putting on weight!
PPS: no, don't ask why ......
12 February 2008, 05:45 PM
#67
Scooby Regular
simple, ban em from burger king.
joking aside, there are very few people out there who have any medical reason for being obese, so y should i pay for them to be given it the easy way.
it sounds in lisa's case this may be a medical condition, or a problem caused by body history but with the correct diet control and advice she may be able to get over it.
joking aside, there are very few people out there who have any medical reason for being obese, so y should i pay for them to be given it the easy way.
it sounds in lisa's case this may be a medical condition, or a problem caused by body history but with the correct diet control and advice she may be able to get over it.
12 February 2008, 07:04 PM
#68
Admittedly I eat a fair amount of carbohydrates to 'fill up', so I only need one meal to do me for the day generally. By carbohydrates I mean pasta or bread. If I'm really hungry in the morning I'll have a couple of slices of toast, but that is rare. 700 calories may not be absolutely precise as I don't measure exactly, but it'll not be far off. For the meal I do have, it's usually something like either beans, scrambled egg or spaghetti on toast or some pasta with tuna/chicken or the odd time bacon.
I do not eat chocolates or biscuits etc. as I simply don't like that sort of food, I've never had a sweet tooth.
For the record I have always had a weight issue from being a small child, and I was active enough then. I have never been treated at the doctors for any weight related issue, with the exception of me mentioning it when I was there for something unrelated, and I was referred to a dietician. I did the food diary thing and she at the time had no real issue with what I ate at the time, but she had said to eat more often rather than just having one meal a day, and definately have breakfast. After trying that and it making no difference, I just went back to the one meal a day. I know my diet doesn't give me all I need, the only point I was trying to illustrate was that not all people are fat because they consume some ridiculous amout of food.
I do not eat chocolates or biscuits etc. as I simply don't like that sort of food, I've never had a sweet tooth.
For the record I have always had a weight issue from being a small child, and I was active enough then. I have never been treated at the doctors for any weight related issue, with the exception of me mentioning it when I was there for something unrelated, and I was referred to a dietician. I did the food diary thing and she at the time had no real issue with what I ate at the time, but she had said to eat more often rather than just having one meal a day, and definately have breakfast. After trying that and it making no difference, I just went back to the one meal a day. I know my diet doesn't give me all I need, the only point I was trying to illustrate was that not all people are fat because they consume some ridiculous amout of food.
12 February 2008, 07:30 PM
#69
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Probably not a good idea not to quote my post then refer to trolls
I agree that there is alot of NHS resources being wasted on what are mild ailments.
I feel there is a duty of care that people don't get morbidly obese (as in seriously obese), by both the individuals concerned and relevent health authorities, a hugely complex issue. However, there is limit as what can be done, the line has to be drawn somewhere.
I liken it to a drug addiction or alcoholism, you can only help them if they want to help themselves, no matter how hard you want them to try or how much effort you give to try and help them. In an ideal world one should not have to quantify how much help one gets. But in reality, when subjected to a resource strapped system, someone will always suffer.
12 February 2008, 08:07 PM
#70
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Don't eat after early evening. Make sure you get plenty of water and make sure you get enough sleep. The latter part can make a big difference.
Dave
12 February 2008, 08:21 PM
#71
I must admit I could do with more sleep. 
I spend alot of time feeling tired, but when it comes to the time to settle down, I can't seem to.
Like I said though, I tried to eat breakfast and then more regular meals throughout the day, but it made no difference, and it almost felt I was forcing myself to eat.
I spend alot of time feeling tired, but when it comes to the time to settle down, I can't seem to. Like I said though, I tried to eat breakfast and then more regular meals throughout the day, but it made no difference, and it almost felt I was forcing myself to eat.
12 February 2008, 09:59 PM
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Admittedly I eat a fair amount of carbohydrates to 'fill up', so I only need one meal to do me for the day generally. By carbohydrates I mean pasta or bread. If I'm really hungry in the morning I'll have a couple of slices of toast, but that is rare. 700 calories may not be absolutely precise as I don't measure exactly, but it'll not be far off. For the meal I do have, it's usually something like either beans, scrambled egg or spaghetti on toast or some pasta with tuna/chicken or the odd time bacon.
I do not eat chocolates or biscuits etc. as I simply don't like that sort of food, I've never had a sweet tooth.
I do not eat chocolates or biscuits etc. as I simply don't like that sort of food, I've never had a sweet tooth.
12 February 2008, 11:17 PM
#73
My diet may be bad, in the sense I do not eat all the variation of food that I should, but the only point I was trying to make, was that not all people who have excess weight, stuff their face with absolute crap all day long and do **** all.
As for my poo, it's fine thanks
To point 3, unless I'm missing something, I've been with my other half for almost 10 years, so hopefully all is well, in addition mind your own business
13 February 2008, 08:45 AM
#74
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Lisa
Try cutting out wheat and dairy ...
Admittedly that may not leave you much to eat
but your diet does need a radical re-think. Weight issues aside you are not getting nearly enough fibre, omega 3 and 6 (you really need oily fish at least 3 times a week and tuna from a tin doesn't count), zinc etc etc which could be causing many more serious problems....
I reckon your brain is probably suffering too, mood swings common?
Suggest you read this book or at least pay more attention to your diet
Amazon.co.uk: Patrick Holford's New Optimum Nutrition Bible: The Book You Have to Read If You Care About Your Health: Amazon.co.uk:: Patrick Holford
Try cutting out wheat and dairy ...
Admittedly that may not leave you much to eat
but your diet does need a radical re-think. Weight issues aside you are not getting nearly enough fibre, omega 3 and 6 (you really need oily fish at least 3 times a week and tuna from a tin doesn't count), zinc etc etc which could be causing many more serious problems....I reckon your brain is probably suffering too, mood swings common?
Suggest you read this book or at least pay more attention to your diet
Amazon.co.uk: Patrick Holford's New Optimum Nutrition Bible: The Book You Have to Read If You Care About Your Health: Amazon.co.uk:: Patrick Holford
13 February 2008, 12:16 PM
#75
There are certain foods such as veg, I really can't eat, mainly because I'm fussy, but that's another story.
My diet may be bad, in the sense I do not eat all the variation of food that I should, but the only point I was trying to make, was that not all people who have excess weight, stuff their face with absolute crap all day long and do **** all.
As for my poo, it's fine thanks
To point 3, unless I'm missing something, I've been with my other half for almost 10 years, so hopefully all is well, in addition mind your own business
My diet may be bad, in the sense I do not eat all the variation of food that I should, but the only point I was trying to make, was that not all people who have excess weight, stuff their face with absolute crap all day long and do **** all.
As for my poo, it's fine thanks
To point 3, unless I'm missing something, I've been with my other half for almost 10 years, so hopefully all is well, in addition mind your own business
1. Fussy eater.
2. Fill up too much and the body will store it, irrespective of your lifestyle or activity level.
3. Love is blind and sometimes we say what the other half wants to hear.
13 February 2008, 12:35 PM
#76
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I got to admit, since abstainance my attitude towards food has totally changed. Loving fruit and veg, which I had no time for before. No desires for lots of sweet stuff or fatty foods, and feel so much better inside.
Time of day you eat, i.e before sleep etc is also a serious factor
Time of day you eat, i.e before sleep etc is also a serious factor
13 February 2008, 05:24 PM
#77
Agree Snazy. I have always liked fruit and veg. Never been a full on veggy though, bacon sarney's or an egg banjo with crispy edges see to that. But as stated every thing in moderation is not bad for you, stay active and not stock up for the winter like bears................you'll get fat!
13 February 2008, 05:33 PM
#78
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Agree Snazy. I have always liked fruit and veg. Never been a full on veggy though, bacon sarney's or an egg banjo with crispy edges see to that. But as stated every thing in moderation is not bad for you, stay active and not stock up for the winter like bears................you'll get fat!
Plenty of walking when I get the chance, and eat based on what I have consumed in the past day, so if I have a heavy lunch, the next day I am more inclined to go lighter.
Not gained any weight in the past week, and thats eating sometimes twice a day. Plenty of fruit (eating a bowl of it now), and a good range of veg. Healthier options where possible etc.
No real desire for fried foods or heavily fatty foods. But when I get a craving, I answer it, as sensibly as possible.
The body demanding "chocolate" is usually just looking for sweet or sugar content food. Plenty of other options that answer it. Same as starchy foods etc.
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