Dr.No

Come October this year, it looks like it'd cost me £25 "congestion charge" to take my STI into the congestion zone!

BBC NEWS | England | London | Gas guzzlers C-charge up to £25

Anything over 225g CO2/km gets hit with £25 - and the STI is 265...

Great eh?

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

One of you who actually lives in London needs to stand up and run for office. Start saying the things people actually want to hear, and do them. I know its a novel concept of actually saying and doing what people want, but I think you may be successful.

Posting on here, and using only a puny vote to choose between Red Ken and a likable half wit is not really going to do you any good.

Spoon

Swiss, is Ken still coming over to your place for tea on Sunday?

Pay up you tightwads. £25 just to see London has to be worth every penny.

corradoboy

Given that apart from a few 16yo's on scooters and the 17yo's who've managed to get through their test before hitting 18, the vast majority of road users are of voting age. There is no viable alternative for us voters to choose though. Labour have embraced the green eco-mental bo11ox, Conservative are even worse with Camerloon cycling around London followed by his official car and 2 cars full of body-guards, and another 20 cars full of paparazzi The Liberals have never been an option for anyone whom doesn't eat tofu and recycle their own faeces, and all the other also-rans are a wasted vote anyway. The ordinary, hard-working, free-thinking, everyday British person is totally unrepresented in modern politics IMHO.

corradoboy

So, add to 'The White Flight' and leave London to Ken and his foreign friends. Let's all sit back, relax, and watch London decay into a 3rd world cesspit.

dpb

Remove the front diff

Lum

Oh god this is hilarious. The limit is set at such a level that the BMW X5 just scrapes in underneath it, avoiding the new charge, but the old 2.0 Mondeo gets hammered by it, as does the older 2.0 automatic VW Golf.

All this is really going to do is have more old sheds running around the capital as there is no CO2 data for cars made before 2001.

There's also no CO2 data for grey imports, so start buying those Pajeros, 4x4 fans!
(Can you actually get a Pajero Evolution, or was that a Dakar only thing?)

borat52

Almost worth buying a 1994 import,decat it, then rev it outside kens house while paying the lower polluting charge. All legal of course!

EddScott

So would I not pay a conjestion charge on my 4.0 Jeep if its on LPG?

How do they know I'm using the LPG at that point? How do they know its got LPG at all?

Glad I live in the sticks!

Lum

Because after you did the conversion, you sent your logbook back to the DVLA with the "fuel type" field changed to: Petrol / LPG?

You did update the DVLA, didn't you?

StickyMicky

sucks to live anywhere near it IMO

it will probably get rolled out across most major towns, iirc i heard some talk of Newcastle already getting some cameras in for testing purposes

Steve_PPP

iTrader: (3)

This sounds fine to me - its basically becoming a "pollution charge" rather than a "congestion charge" now isn't it?

I'm lucky enough to not have to drive into London as part of my daily routine, but now I can if I want in the missus's car for free

Peugeot 206 1.4HDi goodness

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

That is unnecessarily large for your car. You could have a 106, and you could have a smaller engine. Sooner or later you will become the target as the sights just get set lower and lower. There is no way they will close down the gravy train now it has got moving

The Chief

I could not have put this better myself

Steve_PPP

iTrader: (3)

I think it there's a long way to go before they start targeting cars which currently only pay £35 a year tax! By that point, we'll have run out of crude oil in the world

I find myself in a split mind - i think all these people driving Range Rovers around London should be more heavily taxed - they don't need to pollute that much and drive 4x4s which will never leave the tarmac.

But then i don't *need* an Impreza over a normal car. I just wanted one.

corradoboy

People who drive uneconomical cars are taxed more heavily anyway. Fuel is 80% tax, the more you use, the more tax you pay.

bugeyeandy

Key changes

The key changes we will introduce include:

* A 100 per cent low CO2 discount for cars that:
o Produce less than 120g/km CO2 and meet the Euro 4 standard for air pollution emissions or
o Produce no more than 120g/km of CO2, and appear on the PowerShift register
* The introduction of a higher charge (£25) for cars and certain pickups with two rows of seats that produce high levels of CO2.Vehicles liable for this charge are:
o Cars first registered with the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) on or after 1 March 2001 that produce above 225g/km of CO2
o Cars first registered with the DVLA before 1 March 2001 with engines greater than 3,000cc
o Pickups with two rows of seats (extended-cab dual-purpose pickups) with CO2 emissions of greater than 225g/km or with engines greater than 3,000cc in size
* The removal of the 90 per cent Residents' Discount from the Congestion Charge for residents who continue to drive cars liable for the CO2 charge

* The closure of the 100 per cent Alternative Fuel Discount (AFD) to new registrations, and the phasing out of the AFD by January 2010

* A change to the NHS reimbursement scheme. We will only reimburse patients travelling in those cars that are liable for the higher charge a maximum of £8, not the full £25

* The introduction of the Euro V incentive - a time-limited reduced Congestion Charge of £6 for lorries and heavier vans that meet the Euro V standard for air pollution emissions.

MikeCardiff

iTrader: (2)

IIRC then the original reason for different road tax prices was that bigger, heavier vehicles would do more damage and wear and tear to the road surfaces, so should have to pay more - literally a tax on how much of the road you wear out.

I dont know why it has suddenly changed to being based on emissions, other than it being an easy target for the government to rake in some extra cash.

Surely if they are that worried about the emissions it should be based on the number of miles you drive in a year x the emissions your car produces ? Someone who has an Impreza, but only uses it at weekends or for shorter journeys is emitting a lot less than someone in a 1.0 Corsa who is driving miles every day.

Much as I do feel for some drivers who have to go into London daily ( although you would have to PAY me £25 to go in there ) it does serve a lot of them right for thinking their city is the centre of the universe and they are better than everyone else !

bugeyeandy

This means from Jan 2010, LPG vehicles will no longer be exempt.
Also means that anyone living in the Zone who alreadys owns a car with CO2 above 225 or a 3ltr or larger engine will be expected to pay £25 a day merely to use their car regardless of the journey distance.

There are no grants or aids to help people change from these types of vehicles nor are there any plans to reimburse those who converted their cars to LPG.

To the poster above who says TFL do not have a say over the rest of London just look at the LEZ which began at the beginning of this month and have a rethink.

hail-hail

Why should Range Rovers or indeed 4x4's be more heavily taxed? It should be down to emissions only.

Does it matter if it leaves the Tarmac or not?

Why is it ok to own an Impreza and not drive it over Rally stages in Wales, but it is not ok to own a 4x4 and not drive it off road

Oh yes, I do have a 4x4 , cos just like you, I wanted one........ooops no I didn't, the wife wanted one and there the conversation ends

She has a Q7, I have a Mk2 olf GTi 16v, but I am happy

bugeyeandy

Effectively that's exactly what the fuel duty does, the more you drive the more fuel you use hence the more tax on that fuel you end up paying.
The trouble is, you also pay a yearly fee to use the roads that is now also linked to CO2 emissions. On top of that people in the London area are also now going to pay another charge on top linked to CO2 emissions which far outweighs the cost of road tax and fuel duty.

I can totally see the theory behind these charges and what they are attempting to achieve but unfortunately TFL have a track record of using the big stick to get what they want rather than using a series of incentives to enable people to afford viable alternatives. I earn a decent amount but can't afford to change my car every time these idiots dream up another scheme with yet another set of criteria.

Those outside London including a lot my friends and family take great delight in telling me London is ****hole and that it deserves all it gets but those blinkers they're wearing are hiding the FACT that this sort of scheme will roll out countrywide once it's a proven money maker for local councils/city councils.

GC8WRX

Two things, first of all the worst people off are single mums; what if you had two kids,and it wasnt safe to let them get themselves to football/karate/swimming, whatever they do as a hobby, so you felt you had to drive them, into the CC zone obviously, and she happens to have a car that falls into the 25 bracket.

theres no way a single mother could afford that, and no-one wants to buy her car so she can get a cheaper one, cos its in the expensive bracket of 25
So do you compromise your childrens safety and let them use public transport, or walk them every where, which isnt practical and would triple everyones journey time?



And second, the planet has gone through many hot and cold cycles over the millenia, ice ages anyone?

Global warming is bollocks, its an excuse to tax us all to pay for mp's gold plated pensions, employment of families, stupid expense accounts etc.

johnnyroper

ken livingstone what an absolute w@nker,it is not like people have much choice but to pay £25 as public transport is sh1te.
what is this money spent on then?

trying to tackle congestion and pollution?

i doubt it very much probably to pay for some way overpriced fuking olympic games in a few years.

Nido

Only sheds with less than 3.0 litre engines

GaryCat

Simple answer - buy a 01-05 WRX with 219g/km CO2 to be under the £25 threshold, and then decat, remap & tune it to whatever bhp you like.

pslewis

Excuse me!!

My car is a 2000 and certainly isn't a shed!!

This CC is small fry compared to the £1000 a year Car Tax which has been muted around for a while now ..... applying to Band G Cars.

Face it - if you drive a polluting vehicle then you will be hit hard, very hard.

It's how it is, it is our contribution to the generations to come after us - our children and their children ...... Social Engineering at its finest I must say.

DEEDEE

It makes me smile to hear people calling Red Ken, on here and on the Radio all day long. I have begun to think there was never a VOTE for a Mayor, you woke up one day and Ken was sat there. I have not heard on person say I VOTED for him. Either Londeners are good Liars, or, well someone put the X in the box. Its the same with the FUEL TAX if someone had the BO$$OKS to make a stand it would cease to exist over night. If all HGV's stood, 1 day, 2 day, shops would be empty, No Fuel to be had, yes it would be Anarchy, but would be people power

scoobynutta555

Why not get a car pre 2001 under 3 litres? I can think of several cars I'd drive around that comply, like my classic, that I dare say are more desirable cars than cars that superceded them

I do see the point of what Livingstone's trying to make (doesn't mean I agree with him), this is a tax that is easily avoided after all.

ScoTTyB

You have alot of options available to you. As for public transport being sh1te I can get on the train, read the paper, arrive at work quicker than using a car and not bother with parking spaces. You clearly do not know what you are talking about.

Personally I think Ken does an excellent job, stands up to the government and local councils trying to ***** things up even more.

If a congestion charge is not reducing congestion then it obviously isn't high enough, he should make it £100.