mapping for £200
17 February 2008, 06:14 PM
#32
Last edited by lunar tick; 17 February 2008 at 07:07 PM.
17 February 2008, 06:23 PM
#33
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Thanks for your comments.
I wish I was doing 2-3 remaps every day!
Ecutek is not a franchise, the dealers buy a softare product to do the job. To get fully setup with Ecutek software to cover every Subaru and EVO available to map, costs around £10k, that's before you've paid for a single license. Licenses are £150, i don't think that's a secret, we pay that to Ecutek for every car we map. To save you the maths for the break even point, at the (cheap) price of £450 for a remap, you're going to do about 30 cars to BREAK EVEN. Of course that's not taking into account overheads which for an established tuner with premises will be high.
Some ecutek dealers do not deal with Ecutek directly either, but through a third party that does the mapping, I would say this accounts for about 50% of all ecutek remaps sold in the UK. How the maps are charged in this instance is between the reseller and the mapper, but is certainly one of the factors regarding pricing overall.
Meanwhile your instant opensource mapper charging £250 a shot has made £7500 out of his 30 customers. Maybe the opensource mapper will become expert and established, like Mocom racing for example. Or maybe not.
I would say that the maps in the US are cheap for a reason. I had the pleasure of mapping a car that had been previously mapped in the US by an ecutek tuner. The owner found most of what I did to be new to him, and the mapping much more in depth, as a result, despite paying more, he was very pleased indeed with what he got. In the states people will map for almost nothing. Lower overheads, higher volumes, more customers and a price war saw to that.
Like everything, companies charge for their products what the market will bear, whether it's cinema tickets, haircuts, white goods or automotive services. And like every other market, people are happy to pay for genuine quality and good service.
If you in paticular don't wish to pay a premium, that's up to you, but please do not be telling my present and future customers that they're not getting value for money, as in my experience their feedback suggests they are quite happy.
I wish I was doing 2-3 remaps every day!
Ecutek is not a franchise, the dealers buy a softare product to do the job. To get fully setup with Ecutek software to cover every Subaru and EVO available to map, costs around £10k, that's before you've paid for a single license. Licenses are £150, i don't think that's a secret, we pay that to Ecutek for every car we map. To save you the maths for the break even point, at the (cheap) price of £450 for a remap, you're going to do about 30 cars to BREAK EVEN. Of course that's not taking into account overheads which for an established tuner with premises will be high.
Some ecutek dealers do not deal with Ecutek directly either, but through a third party that does the mapping, I would say this accounts for about 50% of all ecutek remaps sold in the UK. How the maps are charged in this instance is between the reseller and the mapper, but is certainly one of the factors regarding pricing overall.
Meanwhile your instant opensource mapper charging £250 a shot has made £7500 out of his 30 customers. Maybe the opensource mapper will become expert and established, like Mocom racing for example. Or maybe not.
I would say that the maps in the US are cheap for a reason. I had the pleasure of mapping a car that had been previously mapped in the US by an ecutek tuner. The owner found most of what I did to be new to him, and the mapping much more in depth, as a result, despite paying more, he was very pleased indeed with what he got. In the states people will map for almost nothing. Lower overheads, higher volumes, more customers and a price war saw to that.
Like everything, companies charge for their products what the market will bear, whether it's cinema tickets, haircuts, white goods or automotive services. And like every other market, people are happy to pay for genuine quality and good service.
If you in paticular don't wish to pay a premium, that's up to you, but please do not be telling my present and future customers that they're not getting value for money, as in my experience their feedback suggests they are quite happy.
Your not paying the license Paul....this is passed on to the customer...
So it takes you 30 maps to break even.....that really not a lot at all is it? A month maybe?
Whilst you have premises and overheads, some mappers do not.... why should your overheads be passed on to the customer. And in the same token why do (mobile) mappers with little or no overheads charge the same money?
I don't believe I ever said that your present and future customers were not getting value for money. Yet again you have misquoted me.
I said that the EcuTEK dealers are monopolising. Some healthy competition is required to make it better for the consumer, but that's not going to happen whilst the situation is so lucrative for you all.
17 February 2008, 07:12 PM
#34
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So its not a franchise....but you have to pay 10k up front, and you cannot work or buy into the region if another EcuTEK dealer is already there. OK, don't call it a franchise, I don't really care what you call it, but the business model is obvious.
Your not paying the license Paul....this is passed on to the customer...
So it takes you 30 maps to break even.....that really not a lot at all is it? A month maybe?
Whilst you have premises and overheads, some mappers do not.... why should your overheads be passed on to the customer. And in the same token why do (mobile) mappers with little or no overheads charge the same money?
I don't believe I ever said that your present and future customers were not getting value for money. Yet again you have misquoted me.
I said that the EcuTEK dealers are monopolising. Some healthy competition is required to make it better for the consumer, but that's not going to happen whilst the situation is so lucrative for you all.
Your not paying the license Paul....this is passed on to the customer...
So it takes you 30 maps to break even.....that really not a lot at all is it? A month maybe?
Whilst you have premises and overheads, some mappers do not.... why should your overheads be passed on to the customer. And in the same token why do (mobile) mappers with little or no overheads charge the same money?
I don't believe I ever said that your present and future customers were not getting value for money. Yet again you have misquoted me.
I said that the EcuTEK dealers are monopolising. Some healthy competition is required to make it better for the consumer, but that's not going to happen whilst the situation is so lucrative for you all.
please elaborate on this, as i havent yet had one of these remaps, but will be doing eventually and probably paying as you say it a "premuim" for the privilage.
17 February 2008, 08:30 PM
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Whilst you have premises and overheads, some mappers do not.... why should your overheads be passed on to the customer. And in the same token why do (mobile) mappers with little or no overheads charge the same money?
I said that the EcuTEK dealers are monopolising. Some healthy competition is required to make it better for the consumer, but that's not going to happen whilst the situation is so lucrative for you all.
I said that the EcuTEK dealers are monopolising. Some healthy competition is required to make it better for the consumer, but that's not going to happen whilst the situation is so lucrative for you all.
why should expenses for a business to exist for the customers to use pass on expenses for its existance to the customer?? errrmmm you think it should run at a loss?
Simon
17 February 2008, 09:38 PM
#36
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Well, this one has legs doesn't it?
I think Tiny summed it up in the first part of his post. He knows he can get "mapping" done on the cheap, but he doesn't want to.
I think Tiny summed it up in the first part of his post. He knows he can get "mapping" done on the cheap, but he doesn't want to.
17 February 2008, 10:02 PM
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17 February 2008, 10:40 PM
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It's not a franchise. There are a number of software packages released, one for each family of ECUs available. SO to start with, just as I did, I purchased only a couple to enable me to map most of the cars I was getting enquiries about. Now I map for a wide range of models and marques, so the spend has gone up.
I would like to know where you get some of your figures for for amount of maps. Bearing in mind that at Zen Performance, I do a lot more than mapping, and many of my mapping jobs are non Ecutek jobs, and those that are Ecutek jobs are often adjustments to existing maps, which get charged out at a much reduced rate.
I believe you have a paticular agenda regarding mapping, costs and in paticular Ecutek, beyond what one should expect to pay for mapping in general.
I would like to know where you get some of your figures for for amount of maps. Bearing in mind that at Zen Performance, I do a lot more than mapping, and many of my mapping jobs are non Ecutek jobs, and those that are Ecutek jobs are often adjustments to existing maps, which get charged out at a much reduced rate.
I believe you have a paticular agenda regarding mapping, costs and in paticular Ecutek, beyond what one should expect to pay for mapping in general.
So its not a franchise....but you have to pay 10k up front, and you cannot work or buy into the region if another EcuTEK dealer is already there. OK, don't call it a franchise, I don't really care what you call it, but the business model is obvious.
Your not paying the license Paul....this is passed on to the customer...
So it takes you 30 maps to break even.....that really not a lot at all is it? A month maybe?
Whilst you have premises and overheads, some mappers do not.... why should your overheads be passed on to the customer. And in the same token why do (mobile) mappers with little or no overheads charge the same money?
I don't believe I ever said that your present and future customers were not getting value for money. Yet again you have misquoted me.
I said that the EcuTEK dealers are monopolising. Some healthy competition is required to make it better for the consumer, but that's not going to happen whilst the situation is so lucrative for you all.
Your not paying the license Paul....this is passed on to the customer...
So it takes you 30 maps to break even.....that really not a lot at all is it? A month maybe?
Whilst you have premises and overheads, some mappers do not.... why should your overheads be passed on to the customer. And in the same token why do (mobile) mappers with little or no overheads charge the same money?
I don't believe I ever said that your present and future customers were not getting value for money. Yet again you have misquoted me.
I said that the EcuTEK dealers are monopolising. Some healthy competition is required to make it better for the consumer, but that's not going to happen whilst the situation is so lucrative for you all.
17 February 2008, 10:51 PM
#39
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I would get pslewis to do mine, less than 2 hrs and under £200. Better than these lardy boys with all their fancy 10k boys toys which are probably just for show and pose value anyway.
18 February 2008, 04:02 AM
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so without trying to put words in your mouth, but also summarise what youve added to this thread, in my view your saying paul/other mappers are ripping us off?
please elaborate on this, as i havent yet had one of these remaps, but will be doing eventually and probably paying as you say it a "premuim" for the privilage.
please elaborate on this, as i havent yet had one of these remaps, but will be doing eventually and probably paying as you say it a "premuim" for the privilage.
18 February 2008, 04:07 AM
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how do you think mobile mappers get about? there are other expenses you are not seeing..
why should expenses for a business to exist for the customers to use pass on expenses for its existance to the customer?? errrmmm you think it should run at a loss?
Simon
why should expenses for a business to exist for the customers to use pass on expenses for its existance to the customer?? errrmmm you think it should run at a loss?
Simon
One would assume that your outlay is substantially lower than Paul's. Paul brought into this equation the question of overheads, not me. In that token either your rates should be lower, or maybe Paul's higher? Especially as he is so disgruntled about it....
....maybe he needs a big hug ......come here Paul. I'll give you a hug!
18 February 2008, 04:24 AM
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It's not a franchise. There are a number of software packages released, one for each family of ECUs available. SO to start with, just as I did, I purchased only a couple to enable me to map most of the cars I was getting enquiries about. Now I map for a wide range of models and marques, so the spend has gone up.
I would like to know where you get some of your figures for for amount of maps. Bearing in mind that at Zen Performance, I do a lot more than mapping, and many of my mapping jobs are non Ecutek jobs, and those that are Ecutek jobs are often adjustments to existing maps, which get charged out at a much reduced rate.
I believe you have a particular agenda regarding mapping, costs and in particular Ecutek, beyond what one should expect to pay for mapping in general.
I would like to know where you get some of your figures for for amount of maps. Bearing in mind that at Zen Performance, I do a lot more than mapping, and many of my mapping jobs are non Ecutek jobs, and those that are Ecutek jobs are often adjustments to existing maps, which get charged out at a much reduced rate.
I believe you have a particular agenda regarding mapping, costs and in particular Ecutek, beyond what one should expect to pay for mapping in general.
If you then purchase software for other marques, that is irrelevant to me, and ultimately at some point you will recover that cost as well. You do after all work for profit, not a loss as Simon quite rightly points out.
I do not have a particular agenda at all. I use Mocom as they were (at the time) the closest tuner to me. It also made great sense as I intend to have a carputer setup and log data continuously, and in time and with a lot of guidance be able to make a few changes myself. At the moment I am sufficing with a laptop and the guidance of a couple of well respected tuners. I believe Dynamix does the same...
With my set up I could get a slightly more refined set up going the EcuTEK route. And without a doubt my first choice would be Bob Rawle
, my second JGM (due to location). This has not been ruled out, but at the moment my set up is just fine, and has been confirmed by an EcuTEK mapper.Read what you want into my posts Paul. It would not break your empire to reduce your map costs by say £25 to induce a plethora of people into your workshop. Hell, you know for a fact that you would recoup that cost immediately anyway, by selling some bling whilst they are there, or them picking up some new toys as well... I mean I understand Powerstation has just converted their upstairs to a big bling shop.
All I have ever said is that there is room for some healthy competition. These costs have been stuck at this level for some time, and one would assume most tuners have recovered their initial outlay.
If you are not doing that many maps Paul, why does this discussion bother you so much?
Last edited by Marky9074; 18 February 2008 at 04:55 AM.
18 February 2008, 07:19 AM
#43
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Regardless of if it took you a month or a year, you have now recovered your costs, yet you map at the same costs
If you then purchase software for other marques, that is irrelevant to me, and ultimately at some point you will recover that cost as well. You do after all work for profit, not a loss as Simon quite rightly points out.
I do not have a particular agenda at all. I use Mocom as they were (at the time) the closest tuner to me. It also made great sense as I intend to have a carputer setup and log data continuously, and in time and with a lot of guidance be able to make a few changes myself. At the moment I am sufficing with a laptop and the guidance of a couple of well respected tuners. I believe Dynamix does the same...
With my set up I could get a slightly more refined set up going the EcuTEK route. And without a doubt my first choice would be Bob Rawle, my second JGM (due to location). This has not been ruled out, but at the moment my set up is just fine, and has been confirmed by an EcuTEK mapper.
Read what you want into my posts Paul. It would not break your empire to reduce your map costs by say £25 to induce a plethora of people into your workshop. Hell, you know for a fact that you would recoup that cost immediately anyway, by selling some bling whilst they are there, or them picking up some new toys as well... I mean I understand Powerstation has just converted their upstairs to a big bling shop.
All I have ever said is that there is room for some healthy competition. These costs have been stuck at this level for some time, and one would assume most tuners have recovered their initial outlay.
If you are not doing that many maps Paul, why does this discussion bother you so much?
If you then purchase software for other marques, that is irrelevant to me, and ultimately at some point you will recover that cost as well. You do after all work for profit, not a loss as Simon quite rightly points out.
I do not have a particular agenda at all. I use Mocom as they were (at the time) the closest tuner to me. It also made great sense as I intend to have a carputer setup and log data continuously, and in time and with a lot of guidance be able to make a few changes myself. At the moment I am sufficing with a laptop and the guidance of a couple of well respected tuners. I believe Dynamix does the same...
With my set up I could get a slightly more refined set up going the EcuTEK route. And without a doubt my first choice would be Bob Rawle
, my second JGM (due to location). This has not been ruled out, but at the moment my set up is just fine, and has been confirmed by an EcuTEK mapper.Read what you want into my posts Paul. It would not break your empire to reduce your map costs by say £25 to induce a plethora of people into your workshop. Hell, you know for a fact that you would recoup that cost immediately anyway, by selling some bling whilst they are there, or them picking up some new toys as well... I mean I understand Powerstation has just converted their upstairs to a big bling shop.
All I have ever said is that there is room for some healthy competition. These costs have been stuck at this level for some time, and one would assume most tuners have recovered their initial outlay.
If you are not doing that many maps Paul, why does this discussion bother you so much?
im not attempting to brown paul or anyone up from zen for "future favours", i personally give everyone a clean slate when i dont know them, but, and i apologise for the bluntness of this, im inclined to agree with paul on this one re. you having some sort of agenda with said maps.
if it really didnt bother you that much, why have you bitten and responded in the (as i see it to be portrayed) sarcastic and antagonising "grumpy old man" style?
alas im not looking for long debate, nor to get your back up on this scenario, so please please dont assume this, but for someone that doesnt use zen, what would £25 make difference?
again apologies for the bluntness and possibly harshness of my post, but im trying to read it as i see it and respond appropriatly without "pissing people off"
just to add also, how are you so confident that £25 off a £600+ remap would have people flocking to the zen workshop. i personally didnt understand how that was intended.
andy
Last edited by chocolate_o_brian; 18 February 2008 at 07:21 AM. Reason: added extra question......
18 February 2008, 07:45 AM
#44
Surely it is a supply and demand issue. If Paul at Zen is as busy as he needs to be, then he can charge what he wants. To a degree, even if he put his prices up there would still be a queue to use Zen after the magnificant success in last year's Time attack. If you have ever tried to book your car in there you will realise that they are very busy indeed.
This would be standard business practice to price themselves quieter but he and all the other Ecutek dealers dont do this. Zak at Mocom is a similar price if you strip out the ecutek license cost. I have no issues with anyone charging what people will pay and feel is worthwhile - forcing prices down through a debate like this is not going to happen nor should it happen IMO.
The skill and experience of a great mapper, some of whose names have been mentioned on this thread, should not be underestimated. I know, first hand, that it takes a long time to get the knowledge that they have, let alone to build experience to try something which is counter-intuitive to solve an issue on an engine map. It is not quite as simple as they make it out.
As for the original question, for the £200 remap I would certainly want to ensure if it was my car being mapped in that way, that they were changing the maps on my car based on what my car was doing, ie monitoring for det, checking fueling, boost and monitoring the car through the process to see how it responds. I would hope that they are not just flashing on a pre-made map that would be a miracle if it worked properly for my car, my mods and for the way I drive it/intended use.
This would be standard business practice to price themselves quieter but he and all the other Ecutek dealers dont do this. Zak at Mocom is a similar price if you strip out the ecutek license cost. I have no issues with anyone charging what people will pay and feel is worthwhile - forcing prices down through a debate like this is not going to happen nor should it happen IMO.
The skill and experience of a great mapper, some of whose names have been mentioned on this thread, should not be underestimated. I know, first hand, that it takes a long time to get the knowledge that they have, let alone to build experience to try something which is counter-intuitive to solve an issue on an engine map. It is not quite as simple as they make it out.
As for the original question, for the £200 remap I would certainly want to ensure if it was my car being mapped in that way, that they were changing the maps on my car based on what my car was doing, ie monitoring for det, checking fueling, boost and monitoring the car through the process to see how it responds. I would hope that they are not just flashing on a pre-made map that would be a miracle if it worked properly for my car, my mods and for the way I drive it/intended use.
18 February 2008, 08:03 AM
#45
Most importantly do I get a trim while I wait for my next re-map then Paul?
Will it be Liz with the clippers or yourself?
Its not like you're busy or anything
18 February 2008, 08:12 AM
#46
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Surely it is a supply and demand issue. If Paul at Zen is as busy as he needs to be, then he can charge what he wants. To a degree, even if he put his prices up there would still be a queue to use Zen after the magnificant success in last year's Time attack. If you have ever tried to book your car in there you will realise that they are very busy indeed.
This would be standard business practice to price themselves quieter but he and all the other Ecutek dealers dont do this. Zak at Mocom is a similar price if you strip out the ecutek license cost. I have no issues with anyone charging what people will pay and feel is worthwhile - forcing prices down through a debate like this is not going to happen nor should it happen IMO.
The skill and experience of a great mapper, some of whose names have been mentioned on this thread, should not be underestimated. I know, first hand, that it takes a long time to get the knowledge that they have, let alone to build experience to try something which is counter-intuitive to solve an issue on an engine map. It is not quite as simple as they make it out.
As for the original question, for the £200 remap I would certainly want to ensure if it was my car being mapped in that way, that they were changing the maps on my car based on what my car was doing, ie monitoring for det, checking fueling, boost and monitoring the car through the process to see how it responds. I would hope that they are not just flashing on a pre-made map that would be a miracle if it worked properly for my car, my mods and for the way I drive it/intended use.
This would be standard business practice to price themselves quieter but he and all the other Ecutek dealers dont do this. Zak at Mocom is a similar price if you strip out the ecutek license cost. I have no issues with anyone charging what people will pay and feel is worthwhile - forcing prices down through a debate like this is not going to happen nor should it happen IMO.
The skill and experience of a great mapper, some of whose names have been mentioned on this thread, should not be underestimated. I know, first hand, that it takes a long time to get the knowledge that they have, let alone to build experience to try something which is counter-intuitive to solve an issue on an engine map. It is not quite as simple as they make it out.
As for the original question, for the £200 remap I would certainly want to ensure if it was my car being mapped in that way, that they were changing the maps on my car based on what my car was doing, ie monitoring for det, checking fueling, boost and monitoring the car through the process to see how it responds. I would hope that they are not just flashing on a pre-made map that would be a miracle if it worked properly for my car, my mods and for the way I drive it/intended use.
at the end of the day, its a custom map, and for that over a general map i believe you will always pay more as it takes more time to complete and perfect.
18 February 2008, 08:29 AM
#47
Leaving aside the personal slights against Paul (I'm not sure what your agenda is here), £25 off a map is not going to sway people one way or the other. What people want is skill, experience and expertise, and that simply doesn't come at bargain basement prices. We live in a market driven society - a product or service is worth only what someone is prepared to pay. If you want some healthy competition and you consider mapping to be such a rip-off/easy money, why don't you set yourself up as a mapper and see how you get on? You might discover that there's more to getting a superb map than meets the eye...
18 February 2008, 08:49 AM
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sorry if this sounds like im butting in and trying to answer for paul... believe me im not. anyway from someone who doesnt know you nor paul/zen performance, it seems apparant in your posts your looking at winding people up the wrong way.
im not attempting to brown paul or anyone up from zen for "future favours", i personally give everyone a clean slate when i dont know them, but, and i apologise for the bluntness of this, im inclined to agree with paul on this one re. you having some sort of agenda with said maps.
if it really didnt bother you that much, why have you bitten and responded in the (as i see it to be portrayed) sarcastic and antagonising "grumpy old man" style?
alas im not looking for long debate, nor to get your back up on this scenario, so please please dont assume this, but for someone that doesnt use zen, what would £25 make difference?
again apologies for the bluntness and possibly harshness of my post, but im trying to read it as i see it and respond appropriatly without "pissing people off"
just to add also, how are you so confident that £25 off a £600+ remap would have people flocking to the zen workshop. i personally didnt understand how that was intended.
andy
im not attempting to brown paul or anyone up from zen for "future favours", i personally give everyone a clean slate when i dont know them, but, and i apologise for the bluntness of this, im inclined to agree with paul on this one re. you having some sort of agenda with said maps.
if it really didnt bother you that much, why have you bitten and responded in the (as i see it to be portrayed) sarcastic and antagonising "grumpy old man" style?
alas im not looking for long debate, nor to get your back up on this scenario, so please please dont assume this, but for someone that doesnt use zen, what would £25 make difference?
again apologies for the bluntness and possibly harshness of my post, but im trying to read it as i see it and respond appropriatly without "pissing people off"
just to add also, how are you so confident that £25 off a £600+ remap would have people flocking to the zen workshop. i personally didnt understand how that was intended.
andy
Originally Posted by dynamix
This would be standard business practice to price themselves quieter but he and all the other Ecutek dealers don't do this.
Paul already has a beef with me because I use stolen, illegal software...........allegedly
This is hear nor there. The point of my comments in this thread are to encourage the thought of healthy competition.
I truly believe that if a single centrally located well respected EcuTEK mapper reduced their costs, even slightly, they would be mapping 2-3 cars, day in day out, every day of the year. Just from the word of mouth on here...
Sadly this is not going to happen.
This is a debate that is never going to be resolved. The customer is always looking for the same product (EcuTEK remap) at the cheapest possible price, and the seller is always looking to maximise profits. If all the EcuTEK dealers are the same price there is and will never be any competition.
Let me categorically state, I have never questioned the competence of any mapper nor have I ever stated that their products are not value for money.
Last edited by Marky9074; 18 February 2008 at 08:56 AM.
18 February 2008, 08:56 AM
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as a side thought, say respected tuners reduce their prices, and then as your theory goes suddenly have people knocking their door down for said cheaper maps, could you then guarantee that said mappers will put everything into these maps or just rush to get more customers in?
i would personally rather pay a relative price and know the mapper will not leave the car until its 100%, rather than be worried that their over booked because of new lower prices and the work could/may not be as thorough... and no im not suggesting that current prices are there so mappers can spend longer on induvidual cars
again, and i dont think im the only one on here who thinks this, you/paul have beefs with each other, otherwise the above quote wouldnt even be in your initial responce would it
18 February 2008, 08:57 AM
#50
This is a debate that is never going to be resolved. The customer is always looking for the same product (EcuTEK remap) at the cheapest possible price, and the seller is always looking to maximise profits. If all the EcuTEK dealers are the same price there is and will never be any competition.
- quality of maps
- service
- aftersales service
- advice
- building up a rapport with the tuner
Maybe I am a freak, but I would rather a company made some money out of me as an existing customer so that they were around for a long time and so that they looked forward to hearing from me, rather than dreading the price shopping phone calls/emails. Obviously I would not want them to take the mickey, but I think they should make a profit, after all they have had the guts, resolution and determination to go out on their own despite the countless red tape and business prevention measures introduced by the gvmnt. Most probably working stupid hours to feed their business until such time as their business can/could feed them.
(awaits all suppliers putting my prices up now
)
18 February 2008, 08:59 AM
#51
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I understand what you are trying to say Mark, but that is not strictly true. There would be no price competition but it would then come down to more important things:
- quality of maps
- service
- aftersales service
- advice
- building up a rapport with the tuner
Maybe I am a freak, but I would rather a company made some money out of me as an existing customer so that they were around for a long time and so that they looked forward to hearing from me, rather than dreading the price shopping phone calls/emails. Obviously I would not want them to take the mickey, but I think they should make a profit, after all they have had the guts, resolution and determination to go out on their own despite the countless red tape and business prevention measures introduced by the gvmnt. Most probably working stupid hours to feed their business until such time as their business can/could feed them.
(awaits all suppliers putting my prices up now )
- quality of maps
- service
- aftersales service
- advice
- building up a rapport with the tuner
Maybe I am a freak, but I would rather a company made some money out of me as an existing customer so that they were around for a long time and so that they looked forward to hearing from me, rather than dreading the price shopping phone calls/emails. Obviously I would not want them to take the mickey, but I think they should make a profit, after all they have had the guts, resolution and determination to go out on their own despite the countless red tape and business prevention measures introduced by the gvmnt. Most probably working stupid hours to feed their business until such time as their business can/could feed them.
(awaits all suppliers putting my prices up now
)
18 February 2008, 09:02 AM
#52
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In all honesty, I have just read my comments. It does sound like I am a grumpy old man (and I probably am), so I will now publicly apologise to Paul... It is not achieving anything having a bun fight...
Realistically, I probably do not have too much issue with the £450 cost (after all I have paid this once), it is more or less what I would expect to pay for 4 hours work. I guess the license really pushes the cost over the edge for the initial map.
Realistically, I probably do not have too much issue with the £450 cost (after all I have paid this once), it is more or less what I would expect to pay for 4 hours work. I guess the license really pushes the cost over the edge for the initial map.
18 February 2008, 09:04 AM
#53
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In all honesty, I have just read my comments. It does sound like I am a grumpy old man (and I probably am), so I will now publicly apologise to Paul... It is not achieving anything having a bun fight...
Realistically, I probably do not have too much issue with the £450 cost (after all I have paid this once), it is more or less what I would expect to pay for 4 hours work. I guess the license really pushes the cost over the edge for the initial map.
Realistically, I probably do not have too much issue with the £450 cost (after all I have paid this once), it is more or less what I would expect to pay for 4 hours work. I guess the license really pushes the cost over the edge for the initial map.
common ground fella
makes a change to have a reasoned debate over a slinging match
18 February 2008, 09:06 AM
#54
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I appreciate what you're saying Mark, I really do, and I can see you're not questioning mine or anyone elses ability here. The reality is that we are not doing this for a hobby, for pocket money. This is a business, and we are here to make some money, that is allowed isn't it?
If I thought that you could genuinely get what I/we offer for much less, I would lower prices to be competitive. As I've said before, Ecutek is a smallish part of our mapping business, I map GEMS, Motec, Autronic, Apexi and more besides. If i was to drop my price ecutek to say £350, I am sure I would get more business, but at the moment, i couldn't fit it in, and I'm not sure it would be sustainable (but it might be).
I don't want to map 2-3 cars all day every day.
Where do you honestly see the "right" price for Ecutek mapping?
If I thought that you could genuinely get what I/we offer for much less, I would lower prices to be competitive. As I've said before, Ecutek is a smallish part of our mapping business, I map GEMS, Motec, Autronic, Apexi and more besides. If i was to drop my price ecutek to say £350, I am sure I would get more business, but at the moment, i couldn't fit it in, and I'm not sure it would be sustainable (but it might be).
I don't want to map 2-3 cars all day every day.
Where do you honestly see the "right" price for Ecutek mapping?
18 February 2008, 09:22 AM
#55
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Where do you honestly see the "right" price for Ecutek mapping?
Last edited by Marky9074; 18 February 2008 at 11:33 AM. Reason: i didn't really really want two really's
18 February 2008, 12:24 PM
#56
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I guess I must be too cheap then !
I have been at £500 for an Ecutek map (including licence) for a few years now. From what I read here this is cheaper than some of the open source guys once you consider the £150 licence fee.
£190 for a subsequent full remap on Ecutek, Apexi,Simtek,Autronic etc and usually somewhere between £50 to £100 for some less involved mapping work.
VAT is applied in my case (not with all tuners) but sadly I don't see any of that !
The difference I suppose is that unlike Paul, I am usually doing 2 remaps every day of the week, its all I do full time and just specialising on Subarus.
I guess having a 4-5 week waiting list all year round for the past few years means I must be doing something right
I must say I have never been tempted to price myself quieter !
As Dynamix mentioned, there is more to a remap than just drive in -map- drive away.
- quality of maps
- service
- aftersales service
- advice
- building up a rapport with the tuner
I may exchange hours of phone calls and dozens of emails/PMs with someone ensuring they are getting the most appropriate mods done to their car before arriving for tuning.
Andy
ps I am an authorised advertiser in case anyone is worried about me quoting prices !
I have been at £500 for an Ecutek map (including licence) for a few years now. From what I read here this is cheaper than some of the open source guys once you consider the £150 licence fee.
£190 for a subsequent full remap on Ecutek, Apexi,Simtek,Autronic etc and usually somewhere between £50 to £100 for some less involved mapping work.
VAT is applied in my case (not with all tuners) but sadly I don't see any of that !
The difference I suppose is that unlike Paul, I am usually doing 2 remaps every day of the week, its all I do full time and just specialising on Subarus.
I guess having a 4-5 week waiting list all year round for the past few years means I must be doing something right
I must say I have never been tempted to price myself quieter !
As Dynamix mentioned, there is more to a remap than just drive in -map- drive away.
- quality of maps
- service
- aftersales service
- advice
- building up a rapport with the tuner
I may exchange hours of phone calls and dozens of emails/PMs with someone ensuring they are getting the most appropriate mods done to their car before arriving for tuning.
Andy
ps I am an authorised advertiser in case anyone is worried about me quoting prices !
Last edited by Andy.F; 18 February 2008 at 12:28 PM.
18 February 2008, 12:46 PM
#59
Scooby Regular
Out of interest, what is the Warranty issued on these expensive re-maps?
Maybe the cost of a 24 month/30,000 mile warranty pushes the prices up?
I really have no idea what the standard guarantee is on these things?
Maybe the cost of a 24 month/30,000 mile warranty pushes the prices up?
I really have no idea what the standard guarantee is on these things?
18 February 2008, 12:52 PM
#60
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so for me to ring you up and request and ecutek map (on a classic as you were) it would be £500+vat @ 17.5%, so approx £587.50. thats all in
seems very reasonale to me, if not the cheapest i know re. the major players on here.
please correct me if im mistaken on the above andy