WRX_Dazza

people just dot want to be forced to do anything outside their comfort zone.

what?? use public transport??? shock horror.... lol
'tis the way of the world unfortunately

mind you, i'm quite happy to drive 300yrds down to the burger van at work, if its a bit blowy outside.... lol

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

If we don't stand up to this all that will happen will be that it will continue to get more expensive, and also be rolled out across the country.

You may sit there and think, "I'm fine", but you are not. Today's average cars are tomorrows gas guzzlers. It does not matter what manufacturer's make, unless you are prepared to drive the most eco friendly car you ARE going to be targeted. Personally I don't think a Gwhiz is remotely practicable.

stilover

Probably because Ford aren't stupid.

How do you charge up an Electric car? Plug it into the national grid? yes.

And what do Power stations burn? Fossel fuels.

So what heppens then? Government slaps huge tax on Electricity as people charging their cars are killing the Planet.

Also, when your out in your car and run low on fuel you simply stop off and tank up in about 5 minutes.
With an Electric car you have to pull over, plug into the national grid and wait 2 hours for it to charge up.

Like I say, Ford aren't stupid.

PeteBrant

To be honest, if there is one place where congestion charge can be justified, its London. The transport links make it so that there really is a bonefide alternative to driving.

You do have the choice. If that choice is to drive, then fine, but you have to pay for it.

Compare that to many rural areas, where there really isn't an alternative to driving, and the potential introduction of pay-as-you-drive schemes and thats where there really is a difference.

GC8WRX

The last two times ive been to london to watch utd the train home was cancelled with no warning from the train company, and no alternative transport provided and neither the coppers or the company employees could tell us another way to get home, result: one very cold 4 hour wait on a train station platform that we werent allowed off for our "own saftey", not even offered a cup of tea by the train company.

Then when the ******* train finally arrived, it had TWO carriages!, not enough for 100+ utd fans, cue a mass stampede to get on the train!, then the coppers had a fit and started nicking people for no reason!

London is **** imo, but when this congestion charge come our way, and it costs me to drive to the cinema or the hospital i will join some sort of protest, or wear a cap and big sunglasses and take the number plate off my car!

Clarebabes

I totally agree with you Pete.

The Chief

I drive to Brighton a lot, and sometimes i've taken the train, the train from Manchester to London is fine dont get me wrong, but the tube transfer from Euston to Londoin Bridge and then the train to Brighton was nothing short of shocking, dirty and overcrowded. In fact i was stood up from Euston all the way until a couple of stops from Brighton.

Until they give people a clean, cheap and safe viable public transport system then people will prefer to drive cars.

angrynorth

For a start, not all power stations burn fossil fuels. The UK government has already indicated it intends to increase the number of nuclear and alternative fuels here so I doubt fossil fuels will power us forever.

Ford may not be stupid but perhaps they should look at the bigger picture.

Oh and unless you are a very heavy commuter, it's unlikely you will do more than 220 miles often in a single trip. I would also imagine that as the technology improves, so will the range.

SJ_Skyline

How many people complaining actually commute into London daily?

Public transport really is the only sane option, although I use the term loosely when you consider what the tube is like at peak hours.

stilover

It will still take hours to charge up though.

Over 220 miles doesn't make you a heavy commuter.

Twice this year I've driven more than that. Once for a day hooning around in an R8 at Oulton park, and a day training course in North Wales.

Both times I wouldn't have got there and back in an Electric car. Maybe I should have cought the bus instead. No wait .........

stilover

Probably because other Cities & Towns may adopt the same policies. London would just be one of many.

MJW

Anyone who thinks Porsche are doing this as a sign of solidarity with car drivers is living in cloud cuckoo land, they are simply protecting their own interests. London is a massive source of potential sales, particularly for the cheaper models of Porsche (Boxster & Cayman) Its highly likely the charge would push potential customers toward other brands of car. So before people start crowing that Porsche are championing the urban performance car enthusiast, think again !!

SJ_Skyline

Maybe so, unfortunately the people that will put these schemes in place will not look at the real picture which is that London has a huge public transport system that (largely) works.

I really couldn't see the same thing working in cities that don't have the public transport infrastructure, that's not to say that some bright spark won't try to make it work.

Square peg for a square hole?

PeteBrant

I'm not so sure, It promotes the manufacture of more fuel efficient cars. There is no rule book that says you cannot have performance and fuel effiecientcy.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Have to disagree. If you can afford a £80,000 911 and have it as your only car in lodon not to mention the insurance and parking spaces (if you are driving into london then you do need to have a parking space so you'll be paying way in excess of £6000 a year for that alone)

The people paying this, commuting in their Porsches will be top exec types who will get it back through the company. The people that need to have a go are those with family cars that actually need to have them to shepard young kids about.

I disagree with the charge as it is pollution not a congestion charge but to suggest Porsche owners are going to be hard done by is also a bit too rich.

5t.

Leslie

I personally find large 4x4's an irritating waste of space in places where driving room is restricted and in parking, Also they are a sham when they are designed to be driven off-road anyway.

Nevertheless I think this proposed £25 a day is way over the top and is obviously intended as a revenue raiser.

A good friend of mine has a 3 litre car-not a 4x4, and lives on the outskirts of London. The local council has now decided to do their so called "eco" bit and have put the annual charge to park in his own road, with no guarantee of a parking space, from £70 to £380 for cars of that engine size or above. They also sell more permits for the road then there are parking spaces!

Les

stilover

What if you've just bought a second hand 996 for £34k. Are you still rich?

SJ_Skyline

Related to this (parking) Harrow council have been blocking in the cars of people who haven't paid their extortionate parking permit fees.

BBC NEWS | England | London | Council blocks in residents' cars

The article doesn't mention prices but the chap on the news last night said the council wanted £1600 to drop the kerb (Correct spelling DD?) outside his house. I forget what the on-road parking permit was but it was more than £100.

Disgusting

PeteBrant

Possibly not


But then you arent exactly on the breadline either.

Flatcapdriver

Unfortunately, you like the majority of the electorate are completely missing the point because if legislation such as this is passed unchallenged then the politicians are going to be encouraged by their ability to pass draconian laws and we'll all be in the ****.

What next? Any car that's capable of exceeding 70mph either be artificially limited or taxed £10 for every 10mph it exceeds the speed limit?

Or better still, levy a tax on two seaters on the basis that they're energy inefficient as they cannot take the full compliment of four passengers that most cars can?

This is the thin end of the wedge. Tax the high polluters by taking the high moral ground by 'prosecuting' the rich who can afford these cars, thus appealing to the atypical British envy culture who belatedly realise they've been duped, as they're people carriers and the like are also caught in the trap?

Not sound thinking.

PeteBrant

Thing is Les, I would agree it was a revenue raiser if it was anywhere but London.

But the fact is, is it cheaper and quicker to take public transport.

MJW

If you have £34k of disposable income to lavish on a 10 year old second hand car, and can still cover a £250,000 mortgage on a bedsit you aren't exactly gonna be a skint member.

judgejules

"Pretty much all of the £677.4 million collected in the first three and a bit years of operation of the scheme has been spent on out of control set up and running costs"

This kind of stuff makes my blood boil. Hardly anything has been reinvested back into the transport system which was a major "selling point" of the system in the first place. The perceived reduction in traffic has been due to the increase of bus lanes and altered signals causing a reduction in the carrying capacity of the city's roads.

All this while the company who runs the system for the government has been taking 1/6th of the revenues (not just the profit) and has seen its share price rise from a low of 172 when it go the contract to about 800 when it lost the contract back in December.

stilover

Still doesn't mean you could afford £6000 a year on Congestion charges though does it.

OK, lets get away from Porsche and say you have a Subaru Impreza. It's still over the limit so you'd have to pay Ken £25 a day.

Like I said before, Porsche need the backing of other manufacturers. Not just "Performance" oriented marques but the likes of Ford, Vauxhall as well.

Plus if everyone started using Public transport in London, London would ground to a halt.

MJW

Subaru don't seem to be up in arms about the charge, and neither do Ford or Vauxhall. This is because they manufacture cars which come under the emissions limit as well as ones that go over. Porsche on the other hand do not have *one* model that comes under the emissions and therefore stand to lose the most.

SJ_Skyline

My Vauxhall is over the limit

Clarebabes

I don't know many normal working people who would spend that much money on a car, so you are probably doing fairly well to buy one at that price.

Of course, the bottom will fall out of the second hand market now...

PeteBrant

No, but then I don't have to pay that because I can use the excellent public transport system.


You're missing the point

You have a choice

Unlike lots and lots of other places.

Clarebabes

Hands up who commutes to London by car EVERY day? Do you know anyone? And do they actually pay for the CC, or does their company?

SJ_Skyline

Anybody know if the US embassy will continue to refuse to pay?