Well done Porsche - London CC
20 February 2008, 08:33 AM
#121
Scooby Regular
Ill do what I can...
The last result, I believe had the congestion charge making a £90 million profit - However, this was entirely made up of fines for late payment. If everyone paid on time, the scheme would have acutally made a loss.
Of course this may change with the new raised amount - However obviously you are going to have less people paying, simply by putting off people with the raised amount - which is the whole point
(However, I do not beleive Livingstone did himself any favours by pledging not to raise it for a decade, and then promptly doing the exact opposite)
By law all surpluses must be invested in Public transport
London emits 10m tonnes of carbon per year- split like this:
Car and motorcycle: 5m tones (49%)
Road freight: 2.3m tonnes (23%)
Ground-based aviation: 1.1m tones (11%)
Bus: 500,000 tonnes (5%)
Taxis and minicabs: 400,000 tonnes (4%)
National rail: 400,000 tonnes (4%)
Underground: 400,000 tonnes (4%)
Your carbon footprint per person per kilometer is:
Average Car 180g
Bus 60g
Train 40g
THis would suggest there is some merit in having concessions for car sharing - however - does this fall in to "congestion" charging?
The last result, I believe had the congestion charge making a £90 million profit - However, this was entirely made up of fines for late payment. If everyone paid on time, the scheme would have acutally made a loss.
Of course this may change with the new raised amount - However obviously you are going to have less people paying, simply by putting off people with the raised amount - which is the whole point
(However, I do not beleive Livingstone did himself any favours by pledging not to raise it for a decade, and then promptly doing the exact opposite)
By law all surpluses must be invested in Public transport
London emits 10m tonnes of carbon per year- split like this:
Car and motorcycle: 5m tones (49%)
Road freight: 2.3m tonnes (23%)
Ground-based aviation: 1.1m tones (11%)
Bus: 500,000 tonnes (5%)
Taxis and minicabs: 400,000 tonnes (4%)
National rail: 400,000 tonnes (4%)
Underground: 400,000 tonnes (4%)
Your carbon footprint per person per kilometer is:
Average Car 180g
Bus 60g
Train 40g
THis would suggest there is some merit in having concessions for car sharing - however - does this fall in to "congestion" charging?
THis seems to be a bug bear, calling it "congestion" charge and not "emmisions" charge - But I don;t see why it makes a difference?
Also, CO2 might not a pollutant but it sure nasty stuff.
Its been demonstrated without doubt that the total co2 emissions of cars is but a mere drop in the ocean of Global Co2 emissions. Studies have proven that. Deisel particulate emissions and other emissions from internal combustion engines are far more dangerous to human life than Co2.
But Co2 is the political hot potato. Its a shame its arguably all a load of bollocks.
But cabs account for 4% total emissions, busses 5% - Cars amount for 49%.
So it is clear which one needs to be cut back. And as I said, by law, all profits have to go into public transport.
So it is clear which one needs to be cut back. And as I said, by law, all profits have to go into public transport.
Why?
Studies in Glasgow have put the blame for air quality in the worst areas of the city squarely on the cabs, buses and commericals. Not the cars.
We need to stop being so accepting of Co2 as the great motoring evil. Its not, and that has been proven.
So, what is it to be for Ken's charge?
Too many cars?
Air quality and heath?
Revenue generation?
Don't get me wrong Pete, I'm all in favour of reducing the sheer number of cars (don't live there, but spend a fair amount of time via work) and improving the air quality (which was crap the last time I was there).
But the proposed charging structure is simply wrong.
20 February 2008, 09:16 AM
#122
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20 February 2008, 09:57 AM
#123
Scooby Regular
Its not "harmless" but it is only considered dangerous when inhaled in high concentrations.
My point is that from an air quality perspective it is irrelevant. And the distinction is very relevant. But don't take my word for it - have a look here
London Air Quality Network :: Welcome to the London Air Quality Network » Reports
Co2 is conspicuous by its absence in the reports on air quality.
But of course, ironically, Ken knows that. That is why there is a LEZ in London to deal with pollution.
About the LEZ | Transport for London
In which case the congestion charge is either about the volume of traffic clogging up the roads, or revenue generation.
Giving Ken the benefit of the doubt, lets assume its about there being too many cars, ie "congestion". That takes me back to the point that basing a "congestion" charge on Co2 is simply flawed.
Or "Red" Ken is simply taxing those with more money, because lets face it, that goes against his very basic political beliefs.
A Toyota Prius takes up the same amount of space on the roads as a V10 Gallardo. Per head, 2 low emission vehicles with single occupant put out more co2 than 1 SUV with 3 occupants. And they take up more space, but they get in for free.
Its a joke.
My point is that from an air quality perspective it is irrelevant. And the distinction is very relevant. But don't take my word for it - have a look here
London Air Quality Network :: Welcome to the London Air Quality Network » Reports
Co2 is conspicuous by its absence in the reports on air quality.
But of course, ironically, Ken knows that. That is why there is a LEZ in London to deal with pollution.
About the LEZ | Transport for London
In which case the congestion charge is either about the volume of traffic clogging up the roads, or revenue generation.
Giving Ken the benefit of the doubt, lets assume its about there being too many cars, ie "congestion". That takes me back to the point that basing a "congestion" charge on Co2 is simply flawed.
Or "Red" Ken is simply taxing those with more money, because lets face it, that goes against his very basic political beliefs.
A Toyota Prius takes up the same amount of space on the roads as a V10 Gallardo. Per head, 2 low emission vehicles with single occupant put out more co2 than 1 SUV with 3 occupants. And they take up more space, but they get in for free.
Its a joke.
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