pslewis

Cannot see any trolling on this thread - just a simple exchange of opinions, from each end of the spectrum ....... a different angle of view is NOT trolling it is expressing an opinion

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

The net's closing in though Pete. You might be able to do as you mention below & you'll be OK today. Next year though or the year after that they will have you ie there is a proposal to tax cars over 10yrs old isn't there? You'll soon be forced to buy a new car. What is your choice then? Buy a frugal one & be bored sh*tless or buy a performance car & pay through the nose ...

TX.

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

You've kind of hit the nail on the head here, the government are trying to socially engineer people's choices. Unless I'm living on a different planet, I thought we were in a democracy and not a dictatorship.

I'm all for a government trying to encourage people to be more environmentally concious if that's the route they want to take, but there are ways to do this without yet another tax.To encourage is very different than to force people into a choice.

It seems to be every problem or issue in this country is tackled with another tax or an increase, and nothing is really done tosolve any problems, as they seem incapable of coming up with a real solution/so out of touch with the real world they don't know what to do or they are in fact greedy and just want to suck the hard working tax payers dry.

If the government really cared about the green issue, they would be doing alot more than taxing us, they would really force us out of our cars, but they don't really want that as no money would be made that way. Enough people will pay whatever extra tax, that the problem of too many cars on the road will still exist. All they are serving to do is create a nation of dissillusioned people, who see all that is happening is they are being shafted from every direction.

It would appear the only people looked after these days are the very rich (who although may not like being taxed, have enough money for it not to cause them to struggle to get by, and will continue to go about their merry business), and those at the bottom of the pile who suck the benefit system dry, with no intention to work, who get away with it. Those who suffer are the genuine hard working normal folk in the middle, who pay their taxes, and just want to get by in life, and I think it's a sorry state of affairs when these are the people being abused, and made to struggle to get by more and more every year.

D Noble

surprised it has taken our government so long to impllement this tax, as it is used by many other countries as a "luxury car tax" this is why you can buy a car in europe and not pay their tax, have it shipped over here and apply vat , it becomes much cheaper as the car manufacturer has to keep his margin lower or they wouldnt sell any! in scandinavia an imprezza is about 50k!! difference is they pay less in income tax and more tax on purchases.

i think they should scrap income tax and council tax then tax food, clothes cars, petrol etc to the hilt then you wouldnt have problems of people not paying road tax,council tax etc if you want to drive legally or live in this country then you would pay your fare share of tax rather than dodging it which is costing us gazzillion a year in lost revenue( it would make people work for a living too as if you dont eat you die!!!(ok tongue is a wee bit in cheek here!)

who wants to put me up for chancellors job?


regards
dave

regards

GC8WRX

Not meaning to have a go, but how the hell is a 3.5 turbo diesel shogun going to be any cheaper to run than a fairly standard 2.0 scoob, and the big diesel will throw out more emissions, take up more space on the roads, and get the green lobby annoyed!

Plus no fun in the summer, no brainer to me mate!

RB5SCOTT

i agree

Microstar

For what its worth I think the extra £2000 and high Band G road tax WILL have the desired effect - it will radically change buyer behaviour i.e. new Band G car sales will be affected, because they will cost £2000 more and they will depreciate like a falling block of concrete, on account of the cost of the annual road tax disc. So new car buyer behaviour is going to change pretty quickly. I bet Subaru UK are a bit worried about what they are going to do with their new car allocation for 2008 - (anyone fancy a heavily discounted Legacy Spec B )
I really don't think that the government are doing this to generate revenue - the income it will bring in is going to be very small because only a small proportion of cars sold are in Band G.

Don't forget that many other countries have had similar schemes for many years (Italy and Ireland spring to mind). In the US they have something called the CAFE Scheme (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) which basically 'fines' a vehicle manufacturer every time they sell a car which does an mpg below a threshold level. The threshold is slowly raised over time (I think its about 29mpg at the moment) - so thats an extra tax on gas guzzling cars. I'm not in favour of this sort of thing BTW, just pointing out that it is already normal in many countries.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Spot on!

If you want to make em really mad though, tell em what proportion of the taxes obtained from motorists is actually re-invested back into the transport infrastructure!

I'm with Pete on one thing though: if you don't vote, you loose the right to bitch about it when the government screws you over!

Jap Import

Totally agree.

I pay 1.12p per litre of fuel and whatever it takes to tax my car.
I don't whinge about either, same goes for insurance.

Charge me what the hell they like

finalzero

Welcome to the Fee State... The Leader Is Always Right... It's a joke but fast becoming a reality people.

I think it may be too late to do anything about it, end of the day we have allowed this to happen to us. There is a very real divide between the classes now.

If your very well off then all these taxes won't be a bother however for the vast majority it will mean a thorn into our very basic rights. All these taxes, rules etc seem to be suffocating the middle and working classes to the point where people will simply not be able to afford to own something like a car regardless of the fact that they were able to purchase the vehicle (so buying second hand cars becomes a no go option due to the huge taxes being levied).

I read something equally ridiculous in the paper today, children will have to swear allegiance to the queen.. erm no. How long before we have swear alliegence to the leader whoever that is and accept any and all totalitarian controls being imposed on us?

We are getting robbed plain and simple.. as I like to quote:

"Revolutions are Exciting... But They Leave Many Dead Bodies"

Paul3446

Quote:
"I pay 1.12p per litre of fuel and whatever it takes to tax my car.
I don't whinge about either, same goes for insurance.

Charge me what the hell they like "


So you wouldn't mind if petrol was £2 a litre, or £3, or £4.

Everyone has their breaking point, maybe yours hasn't been reached yet?

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

This very accurately sums up the British transport system outside of a few major cities - ie most of the UK. I would love to be able to travel from here to London using a cheap & efficient transport system, but with 1 bus a day, that's not an option. Even if I drive the 24 miles to my nearest station, the trains to London are infrequent, hugely expensive, notoriously unreliable and with no guarantee of a seat. I find it absolutely incredible that this government sees fit to plough 20 £billion (and rising) into an illegal, futile and destructive war, yet can't invest even a fraction of the money required to enable people to travel around the UK in an efficient and environmentally friendly manner

lordretsudo

I have a 12 mile commute to work. There are no buses or trains that go within several miles of work, and it's a bit far to cycle regularly. How else am I supposed to get to work other than by car? I work a different shift system to others at work, so there isn't even the chance of car sharing... I'm sure a lot of others are in a similar position. I have a cheap runaround that I use for my commute, mind you this isn't primarily to save money but to keep my Scoob clean in the garage!

I still don't get why people are so fond of bringing up the issue of voting in these topics. None of the three parties have expressed any intention to do anything other than increase taxes like these. You can vote all you like; it isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference. Besides, you won't even get a say on the major issues like the EU constitution (it's not the same as the rejected one, honest)...

scoobynutta555

Sorry, I don't buy the argument that people have to travel XXX miles to work and there's no public transport or that someone lives in the middle of nowhere therefore it's impossible to live without a car. Wasn't it your choice to live where you do? Therefore why the bitching about the cost of running a car?

And, show me a garage where petrol is 1.12p a litre, I'll bleed the place dry.

lordretsudo

Do you live in London (or thereabouts)? That's usually the case with people who can't imagine an area without public transport.

There are no houses within 4-5 miles (by road) of my work. You can look it up on Google Earth if you like - it's at the very end of the Seal Sands industrial estate in Port Clarence. There is also no public transport, whether you choose to believe it or not. The houses 4-5 miles away are regularly featured on programmes about the most deprived areas in the UK. Would you want to live there? (And since when have people bought houses based purely on whether they're within walking distance of their work?)

You should note that I'm not one of the people bitching about the cost of petrol - it doesn't particularly bother me, though I think that taxes in general are too high. I'm merely pointing out that suggesting cars are not a necessity in some areas of the country is ridiculous. Admittedly, it's then up to the individual to decide whether to run a gas guzzler or something more economical...

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

One of the less intelligent comments on this thread. There are many reasons why people often can't live close to where they work; many people simply can't afford housing costs close to where they work, or can't find a job that pays enough to survive near where they already live

Paul3446

What do you suggest then, moving every time you change job?

Paul3446

Also, I choose to live in the country where transport is limited, because my nearest town is a bit of a sh*thole!

scoobynutta555

Think you'll find it among the most intelligent posts in the general 'lets moan about everything' type of thread. Actually I'd say the cheapest areas of housing will have quite good links to public transport, whereas more expensive areas will have no or little public transport.

My point, it seems to be obviously missed for some reason, is you can't moan about public transport if you choose to live in an area which doesn't have any.

No I don't live in london, I don't use public transport and I don't live anywhere near where I work. All that doesn't matter as I'm not moaning about the cost of running a high performance car.

Paul3446

Perhaps people don't want to live in the cheapest areas, in case they get bludgeoned to death on the way to the bus stop.

wolfie28

Great quote maybe we should all wear the same, like the same music, films, food and all live in those Japanese bed pods at work. Scoobnutta555 for Prime Minister.

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

I do agree with you that there are some people who choose to live miles away from work, in which case, I have little sympathy either. However, there are many many more ordinary working people who have no real choice for the reasons I stated above. And if you would like to take a trip up to where I live in rural Cumbria using public transport, I guarantee that by the time you get home again, you won't be of the opinion that there are 'good links' to public transport around here.

And please note that I have not commented/moaned anywhere about the costs of running a performance car

lordretsudo

You didn't say that in your first post. You said that you didn't believe that people live in areas without public transport.

I don't think that people choose to live in a particular area based on whether it has good public transport or not - did you? Schools, location, crime, scenery, nice area, family, etc, would come way above public transport provision for most people. It's incidental for most people. The point is that the government says that it wants people to use public transport more, and taxes motorists more and more, whilst making no attempt to improve/provide more of it.

The estate I live on is the biggest private housing estate in Europe. All the houses on it have been built in around the last 20 years, yet there is no rail link, nor were there any buses until very recently. That's government hypocrisy for you (not Labour's fault for once, I admit)

Edited to add that I also agree with Lunar Tick that people who drive long distances from their homes to work get no sympathy from me. That was why I specifically mentioned my work being 12 miles from home in my post, a very reasonable distance I think most people would agree. I also am not complaining about the costs of Scooby ownership.

hrness

i have and occasionally still do work in public transport, how about ridiculous amounts of money being spent, and i do mean ridiculous, on putting bus stops and shelters outside a 3 million pound house, where no one actually waits for a bus, with a bus service running empty belching out its noxious fumes.
while many a rural area has poor service ,poor links, and no shelters let alone nice solar powered shelter and stops to light up there little timetables because lets face it in the major towns there is no lighting of course.

scoobynutta555

I did say it, re-read.
Not many choose an area to live based soley on transport, but looks like that might change at some point in the future due to the way things are going.
Well being the biggest private housing estate in Europe I'm assuming there is a great many voters which could either pressure the local council or the gov't for better transport links.

Let's not forget the policy seems to be punishing band G cars and encouraging the use of smaller (cleaner) vehicles. Those who buy a band G car should expect to pay the tax or switch to a lower banding car.

And Wolfie, great simplistic quote you have there. However, please tell me how more tax on band G cars equates to us all watching the same films and eating the same foods? There are quite a number of fun and unique cars that are in lower tax bands, unlike any 2008 Impreza I know of.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

^^ Such as?

"There are quite a number of fun and unique cars that are in lower tax bands".

TX.

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

What we need is for anyone who has a few braincells to start and emigrate. Leave the country to the chavs and green activists Then we can laugh at them from a distance when it all implodes around their ears. Neither Gordon's brown nose or Cameron's windmill will save them.

BIG FUD

iTrader: (84)

Tax man been robbing people for years and years tax this tax that he and them in charge are the biggest criminalls on this planet 100% they just do it with a suit and a smile simple...

pslewis

Hospitals cost X

Schools cost Y

Wars cost Z

Old Age Pensioners cost A

Single Mums cost B

Therefore the Government needs to collect A + B + X + Y + Z

Whats the problem?

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

^^ They waste more than they should & tax us higher due to their incompetance might be that Pete

TX.