deano555

Glad I have already done the deal, my scooby gets traded in for a new lancer diesil in 2 weeks time.

Heres a thought though if every body parked there cars up for a week and refused to use them lets see what would happen, fuel stations would grind to a halt, public transport would come to halt, and the effects on business would certainly cost this theiving government.
My concence is clear, I would never vote for a socialist party, thats all labour are with a few trimmings and bent politicians.

Deano

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

I'm no politician, but I was under the impression that schools were paid for largely through local (council) tax. Hospitals and pensions largely through NI, single mums/benefits etc will be either council/income tax, wars would come from income tax. So therefore all these 'services' are covered by their relevant tax, which is fair enough.

I think the major issue is we are a massively taxed nation, and we get growingly frustrated when the government starts throwing more at us especially adding to ones already there. If you have a 'gas guzzler' you already pay more than someone without, in that you need more fuel=you pay more tax, and pay a higher rate of road tax already. If you use a car alot, again you will pay more than somone who doesn't. I really can understand why people are irritated when the government now comes along and feels the need to up it more. It is nothing to do with being 'Green' it's just greed.

mikey2

iTrader: (1)

For what its worth, we as a nation have made this country into what it is now, when the muppets who run the country make a ridiculous new law or a daft money making tax we all just read the paper call them all the names under the sun and then get on with life as it comes. The only way this country is going to improve is if someone stands up and starts to reverse what the last few governments have done. Taxs should be used to improve the general structure of the country, i have to say, if people are going to be taxed out of something make it drinking, at the end of the day drink fuelled violence and deaths are increasing, and the victim is usually someone who is sober and chilling out.
At the end of the day people NEED to drive, be it because they are living in a place where there is no other option, or just because they want to, i know i NEED to drive sometimes, just for the sake of it, because i enjoy it. My opinion is people who can work but choose not to should not receive benefits, people who cant work should be monitored until they can work, if that comes about. I recently spent 9 weeks in Egypt, and they have no benefits at all, no road tax and most likely no insurance, BUT some of the roads i travelled on were a damn sire better than some of the ones here, hell, even some of the dirt tracks were better than roads here. For a country who are not overly well off they have the right idea, everyone works, even those who technically shouldnt, the benefit system is a beacon for people from other countrys to come a leech, on that note, close the borders, stop giving visas and passports.

If i dont stop now, i most likely wont ever stop!!!!

My point in all that rambling is, we made this country, we can change it, but its going to be a million times harder, as it actually involves doing something. We need a radical approach to government, if we dont then its all going to end in tears.

Personally i love my car, and i will pay to keep using it, that i dont mind as such, but what i do mind is that what i pay is not used to improve the experience.

Its entirely possible i just wrote a load of crap, i do that on occasion, but its along the lines of what i am thinking.

mikey2

iTrader: (1)

on the note of Egypt, the only time i have seen driving like they do in this country is on ' police, camera, action' !!!!

scoobynutta555

Since you're too lazy to do your own search

Any performance car that meets this criteria pre my2000. And for newer cars, the Elise (£140 a year IIRC) Exige (£205), the vx220 turbo (£205) Astra vxr (£205), mx-5 (£165),Focus st (£205), Toyota mr2 (£165). That's a 2 minute search, not including performance diesels or searching harder. Incidently, my Impreza (£180) is as reliable and quicker and far, far cheaper than anything you'll see for the road, bar extra special editions, from Subaru in 2008.

Yes there seem to be a number of 2 seater sports cars in the list. I'd imagine, just like me, that for most journeys it'll be just the driver in the car. Certainly meets the criteria for being fun, unique and a lower tax band if compromising on praticality a little.


Since there will be howls of derision about impractability on the 2 seater front, how about a 330d sport (£165), much bigger than an Impreza and as quick, if not quicker, than a standard new shape impreza.

Perhaps someone can do their own search and prove that we won't all be eating the same food or watching the same films in years to come due to band G. WTF?

lordretsudo

The point is that rail links have to be built into the initial plans when you build something like a vast housing estate. It's not really something that can just be tacked on later. There is a complete lack of joined-up thinking in government, not just on this issue mind you... It's a nice, if naive, view that pressuring the council gets you anywhere: there's also a lack of school places on the estate and people have been campaigning about that for years, to no affect.

As others have said, that seems to be the policy for now. Of course, as the ever-expanding black hole in the government's finances grows they'll no doubt start looking at band F...

As I said before, my objection isn't to this particular tax so much as to the generall overall level of taxation, which is basically down to a ludicrous welfare state and profligate spending in the hopelessly unreformed public sector.

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

Well said.

The whole band g thing doesn't effect me personally, it's the bigger picture that worries me.

The government will be relying on people paying this huge increased tax. Even if it does work though, to decrease the number of people driving around in these types of car, then where will all this revenue come from? Where will the taxation extend to? It will happen, don't be fooled. They 'need' to make money somewhere, so the liklihood is increased taxation will span out into the other bands. Now it's all very well and good for those with the 'I don't care, I'll pay whatever attitude' but not everybody is in such a privilaged situation. Some people clearly do need to travel by car, and very little seems to being done in respect to offering a viable alternative. That's mainly why I take the view of it's yet another money maker, rather than solution to any sort of problem. A solution to a problem, is an offer of something decent as an alternative, not yet another tax to force people one way or another.

If this really is a step to get the number of cars on the road down, then it will not be long before people in lower bands will be hit, then those with the 'get a different car' attitude will have an issue.

scooby-tc

iTrader: (2)

Better off buying a 4.6HSE range rover **** the government.This whole Band G thing is a government scam anyway.How the hell can a 2004 car be in Band G and a 2006 car in Band F just because the former was registered in 2007 both cars have identical emissions etc.This scam should be based on engine size and overall size IMO get these chelsea tractors off the school runs

rabbos

Complete transparency on tax spending would be a help (pigs might fly...)

I doubt band F will be safe for much longer if there isn't a stern response right now, but then again, everyone moans on the web but no one (myself included) can be arsed to do anything about it.

Jeff Stryker

You missed C, D, F, G, H, I, J and K costs. Imigrants!

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Wanted to know what you think ... my search will no doubt reveal a different list to yours

TX.

hoskib

iTrader: (1)

this is one thing that worries me, this lot of money grabbing ******* can't let it slide for too long before imposing tax purely on emissions regardless of age.

i remember when they gave out free road tax to classic cars over a certain age, then when some dunce realised year on year they'd be dishing out more free tax discs they imposed a cut off year and put an end to that.

i'm not saying any other party would be doing a better job but if this shower of **** get voted in next time that's the end for this country for my generation, let alone the future. i know lewis would love to spend his days sucking off gordo, but open your eyes mate, this place is a 5hithole.

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

You need to narrow the criteria a little in order for this to be a credible comparison..!

Find me a fast/fun 4dr car that can also be used as a family daily driver for ~£20k.

A 330d at ~£35k is certainly not..!

To the main topic, there is countless billions wasted each year in the NHS alone. The 'fix' over the last 10yrs or so, for most of the problems in this country has been to throw money (our money) at it, without any real idea (or care) about the root cause. It's papering over the cracks/sweeping under the carpet. Eventually the problem returns, usually worse and therefore more money is thrown at it and it goes on and on..! Did anyone ever see the programme 'Can Gerry Robinson fix the NHS'..? Said it all really, too many bloody overpaid managers with huge budgets and no one can make a simple decision. When they occasionally did it was usually completely unworkable and cost the earth.!

It's the same in education, bureaucracy and red tape.

This government has spent more money on the big three (health/edu/law) than anyone else in history, yet these institutions have never been so bad. Go figure..!

All this is without the UNKNOWN amount handed out to immigration (legal or not)..!

We pay, they spend, only it's like giving a blind kleptomaniac at a jumble sale £100 and expecting them to spend it wisely..!

They worry people silly with the threat of terrorism and global warming, purley to keep us in a state of fear. This helps justify these ridiculous taxes, keeps us paying and keeps the spotlight off the huge waste of this money that goes on..!

It's a complete ar@e ****..!

Sorry, I need to go back to bed now..!

fraser87uk

I will believe it when i see it. Huge increases in tax like this are almost always scare mongering by tabloids and brief ideas by ministers.

As i said, i will believe it when i see it.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

A perfect summary of the state of things - a very accurate post IMHO.


...And this is the pertinent bit. Most of the population just want to get through life as law-abiding citizens with as little hassle as possible... But the govt., for some reason, just seems to think that this is some kind of privilege - a 'non-right', if you will - and keep screwing us over and over and over. And this is the thanks we get for electing them to power to serve US! [Disclaimer: I'm proud to say that I didn't vote the for the f****ers]

lordretsudo

Just as a follow-up to what I was saying about government hypocrisy and the lack of spending on public transport (especially the railways), this is in the papers today: Road system growing 15 times faster than railway line network - Times Online

Paul3446

There are so many examples like that of government hypocrisy. Like when they say they are so green and then push for airport expansion and refuse to tax aviation fuel.

Monkeydile

I read an interview with Dr Franz Josef Paefgen who is the CEO of Bentley, he said that all the transport in the world only accounts for 10% of global carbon pollution, and of that 10% cars account for 1% of it. In the same interview he said that the Co2 emited by manufacturing 1 single car is equivalent to that produced in the first 10 years of that car's life.

This is the main problem, industry. Not only producing cars but everything.
There was a program on Discovery the other day about global warming and a scientist in America did a study on the hamburger industry. He found that, when all added up the farming of the animals, production and selling of burgers accounted for more Carbon emmisions in 1 year than all the 4x4's in North America put together.

Imagine how much pollution comes from industry. Industries that produce things we all take for granted, like power companies, food manufacturing plants, toy manufacturers, clothing manufacturers etc etc. They are the main cause of the problem, not the automobile.

The humble car, despite how many there are and how big the engines are is only a tiny part of the problem. But even if cars do get greener (even sports cars and 4x4's) by using Bio fuels the Government will still tax us heavily. The reason: Because it's all about money, nothing to do with the environment.

Michael

scoobynutta555

Just a reminder of the criteria I was given in a quote from terminator:


"There are quite a number of fun and unique cars that are in lower tax bands".

I can't see anything about 4 door saloons there I bunged in more conventional cars like the bm and the Ford to show fun and uniqueness doesn't have to mean a 2 seater. I am positive there are various other 5 door hatches, estates, saloons and coups that do meet the above criteria. Nobodies bothered to look and post however, happier it seems to moan and doom monger.

scoobynutta555

And may I add, notwithsatnding the debate on the enironment and health or even indeed current oil prices, there will come a time when oil is not as plentiful as it is now, so encouraging more efficient cars makes sense surely?

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

I don't think many people would have an issue with encouraging the production of more efficient cars. The major issue is forcing people into an action one way or another by implementing a ridiculous tax hike.

As I've said before there is a distinct difference between encouraging and forcing.

Ultimately, it is unlikely people will give up their car, so even if they move into one that is more economical, they are still in a car, still polluting, and the difference made will be very small. Thus in time I have no doubt, tax rises across the board with all cars will come. It will not be if, it will be when.

scoobynutta555

If you left it with encouraging manufacturers and motorists to have efficient cars then this obviously wouldn't work. It's certainly not a ridiculous tax hike if you choose to drive a vehicle in a lower band, it's an entirely avoidable tax and as mentioned earlier, higher taxes for higher polluting cars is implemented in other countries.

And in fact, nobody is forcing people into action one way or another in the issue as band G cars aren't being banned. Higher taxes on these cars is encouraging people to switch to smaller cars.

scoobynutta555

BTW Jason, your 4 door car under 20k which is fast and fun? I believe I mentioned earlier my low tax Impreza which is a 4 door, cost to me all in circa £7k

scooby-tc

iTrader: (2)

So where is the arguement about someone buying an older car and having it thrust into Band G because of the time it was registered compared to a newer car which is in band F because it was registered before this March 06 deadline,where is the logic in that.

(not that it bothers me as i can afford to run mine )

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

There are many ways to encourage people and car manufacturers to make cars more economical, which would need to be explored by the powers that be before just wacking a tax on. The fact is this would not have even been looked into, and a straight rise in tax is the answer yet again.

It's true, at the moment, the increase is not too bad in lower bands, but when the government have done their bit in band g, they will move on into other categories, give it time. The issue about what goes on in other countries, fair enough, but are they taxed to death in every other aspect of life aswell? This is the main gripe for most, as it is yet another tax to add onto the rest.

People may not be being forced, in the sense they are still allowed to drive these cars, but they are being put into a situation, whereby, they stump up for a massive hike (which some may well do as they can afford it), those who can't are basically being forced into a different vehicle. I don't see this as a very democratic action.

As I've said before the band g thing doesn't effect me, it's what it implies and most likely will lead to that worries me. Where does it end?

marmski

How do i start my own Political Party? and who wants to be Chancellor?

If we want to change things, then write less... do more. Enough has been said about the problem, lets put a plan in place to present a solution to the masses.

Edit: My car falls into Band G, didnt even know it would mean as much as it does when i bought it back in 2006 (March 31st too! - 7days away from being an F! :| )

finalzero

Agree.

Problem is it's now working against the goverment simply due to the perception of the general public.

Because we have had a numerous service sectors failing (which continue to do so), as well as other wider social and more narrow local issues people are losing faith in the current goverment.

Because we are not seeing enough of the taxes being put back into the public sector and then seeing positive results, anything the goverment does now and in the future will simply not be accepted (e.g the current tax hikes might be for a legitimate and eventually positive reason however no one will accept this fact as we all feel like we are being robbed).

I have a growing family and eventually I will need to get another car or replace my scooby with something newer to either replacing an aging car or cope with more family demands. I have looked at the new Legacy and Impreza's and I know eventually I will need to make a purchase.

This puts me in a difficult situation as my family needs a mode of transport, I want to buy a new car because I want to get the perks that come with a new car as well as making a long term investment in a newer model which I can keep for a length of time or have a better chance of trading in for the next new model.

The goverment knows this and regardless of this fact will still go head with a stupid idea, meaning a majority of us will be forced into paying the extra tax (and any other tax after that) due to our circumstances.

I am surprised the motoring trade has not made much of a mention about this, I was working in a large automotive company until recently and discussed such taxes however upper management didn't seem to be too bothered so either the motoring industry knows something we don't or their hands are tied in this matter.

If this carries on I might follow my colleagues route and move to south Ireland or a similar place where I can live a half decent life and know my children will have some better prospects.

This country is spiraliing into political insanity..

scooby-tc

iTrader: (2)

and its the exact same car as a 2006 model registered in February thats the point im trying to make.Its a government scam as neither car is worse on emissions than the ohter so its definately not a 'Green' tax

Blueblaster

As Scoobynet's resident doommonger when it comes to fuel economy I am going to, ironically, point out the silver lining to all this. For those of you who are so inclined, this all comes down to a particular strand of economics called price elasticity of demand. Now, I'm not going to explain the mechanics, but I am going to explain what it means for us.

Very soon even the most die hard petrolhead is going to have to concede defeat and switch to a diesel or small petrol engined car. However, the desire to return to a high performance car will remain. That means the first manufacturer to come up with an economical high performance petrol engine or a high revving, great sounding diesel is going to make a lot of money as we all abandon our mpg-mobiles in droves. This is inevitable and probably isn't as far away as we think given the strides BMW, in particular, is making.

So what you're going to end up with are lightweight and economical performance cars. And the ironic thing is that if we didn't have high fuel prices and green taxes we probably wouldn't have these lightweight, economical rockets because car manufacturers would have just kept on adding weight in a quest for better crash protection and refinement.

So rejoice, because the thing we all hate is going to bring us the thing we all long for the most. It's a funny old world.

scooby-tc

iTrader: (2)

Until you find that the price of Diesel will be double that of petrol so its not all rosey