£2000 extra tax on new turbo Subarus ?
11 March 2008, 10:13 PM
#91
Agree.
Problem is it's now working against the goverment simply due to the perception of the general public.
Because we have had a numerous service sectors failing (which continue to do so), as well as other wider social and more narrow local issues people are losing faith in the current goverment.
Because we are not seeing enough of the taxes being put back into the public sector and then seeing positive results, anything the goverment does now and in the future will simply not be accepted (e.g the current tax hikes might be for a legitimate and eventually positive reason however no one will accept this fact as we all feel like we are being robbed).
I have a growing family and eventually I will need to get another car or replace my scooby with something newer to either replacing an aging car or cope with more family demands. I have looked at the new Legacy and Impreza's and I know eventually I will need to make a purchase.
This puts me in a difficult situation as my family needs a mode of transport, I want to buy a new car because I want to get the perks that come with a new car as well as making a long term investment in a newer model which I can keep for a length of time or have a better chance of trading in for the next new model.
The goverment knows this and regardless of this fact will still go head with a stupid idea, meaning a majority of us will be forced into paying the extra tax (and any other tax after that) due to our circumstances.
I am surprised the motoring trade has not made much of a mention about this, I was working in a large automotive company until recently and discussed such taxes however upper management didn't seem to be too bothered so either the motoring industry knows something we don't or their hands are tied in this matter.
If this carries on I might follow my colleagues route and move to south Ireland or a similar place where I can live a half decent life and know my children will have some better prospects.
This country is spiraliing into political insanity..
Problem is it's now working against the goverment simply due to the perception of the general public.
Because we have had a numerous service sectors failing (which continue to do so), as well as other wider social and more narrow local issues people are losing faith in the current goverment.
Because we are not seeing enough of the taxes being put back into the public sector and then seeing positive results, anything the goverment does now and in the future will simply not be accepted (e.g the current tax hikes might be for a legitimate and eventually positive reason however no one will accept this fact as we all feel like we are being robbed).
I have a growing family and eventually I will need to get another car or replace my scooby with something newer to either replacing an aging car or cope with more family demands. I have looked at the new Legacy and Impreza's and I know eventually I will need to make a purchase.
This puts me in a difficult situation as my family needs a mode of transport, I want to buy a new car because I want to get the perks that come with a new car as well as making a long term investment in a newer model which I can keep for a length of time or have a better chance of trading in for the next new model.
The goverment knows this and regardless of this fact will still go head with a stupid idea, meaning a majority of us will be forced into paying the extra tax (and any other tax after that) due to our circumstances.
I am surprised the motoring trade has not made much of a mention about this, I was working in a large automotive company until recently and discussed such taxes however upper management didn't seem to be too bothered so either the motoring industry knows something we don't or their hands are tied in this matter.
If this carries on I might follow my colleagues route and move to south Ireland or a similar place where I can live a half decent life and know my children will have some better prospects.
This country is spiraliing into political insanity..
12 March 2008, 12:29 AM
#92
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Sounds like we're both still bitter fella 
TX.
TX.
So where is the arguement about someone buying an older car and having it thrust into Band G because of the time it was registered compared to a newer car which is in band F because it was registered before this March 06 deadline,where is the logic in that.
(not that it bothers me as i can afford to run mine
)
(not that it bothers me as i can afford to run mine
)
12 March 2008, 12:38 AM
#94
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Poll tax riots worked ... last fuel protest didn't ...
Trouble is will any future Govt remove what the previous Govt implemented - doubtful. So we'll be lumbered with punitive taxes whoever gets in
Guess the only solution is to emigrate 
TX.
Trouble is will any future Govt remove what the previous Govt implemented - doubtful. So we'll be lumbered with punitive taxes whoever gets in
Guess the only solution is to emigrate TX.
It has lead to apathy, in that we will all winge, me included. but don't act. Why? maybe because we don't really know what to do. It's not like we get votes on stuff like this, it's just implemented, and until another general election, we're stuck (not that I'm saying anyone else would be better). Anyone with a good idea, step forward.
12 March 2008, 10:16 AM
#96
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There are many ways to encourage people and car manufacturers to make cars more economical, which would need to be explored by the powers that be before just wacking a tax on. The fact is this would not have even been looked into, and a straight rise in tax is the answer yet again.
It's true, at the moment, the increase is not too bad in lower bands, but when the government have done their bit in band g, they will move on into other categories, give it time. The issue about what goes on in other countries, fair enough, but are they taxed to death in every other aspect of life aswell? This is the main gripe for most, as it is yet another tax to add onto the rest.
People may not be being forced, in the sense they are still allowed to drive these cars, but they are being put into a situation, whereby, they stump up for a massive hike (which some may well do as they can afford it), those who can't are basically being forced into a different vehicle. I don't see this as a very democratic action.
As I've said before the band g thing doesn't effect me, it's what it implies and most likely will lead to that worries me. Where does it end?
It's true, at the moment, the increase is not too bad in lower bands, but when the government have done their bit in band g, they will move on into other categories, give it time. The issue about what goes on in other countries, fair enough, but are they taxed to death in every other aspect of life aswell? This is the main gripe for most, as it is yet another tax to add onto the rest.
People may not be being forced, in the sense they are still allowed to drive these cars, but they are being put into a situation, whereby, they stump up for a massive hike (which some may well do as they can afford it), those who can't are basically being forced into a different vehicle. I don't see this as a very democratic action.
As I've said before the band g thing doesn't effect me, it's what it implies and most likely will lead to that worries me. Where does it end?
The ownership of a car has always been about cost, simply saying basically it's not fair on people who can't afford to run band G cars is wrong is quite flawed. I'd like to run around in a Bugatti all day long but I can't because I can't afford it.
If there are no higher taxes on the worst polluting cars then there will be no impetus for change and you'll achieve nothing. A pure draconian step would be to legislate to ban all these cars, but they haven't. Again, set aside pollution, health, the cost of the stuff now and think what you'll be running your band G car on when there's no more oil left.
As proven by myself earlier there are a multiplicity of fun and sporty cars that fall well below band G, and mpvs for those worried about families. The anti argument of this reminds me of a bloke walking up and down a road with a sandwich board saying 'the end is nigh'.
Since manufacturers now realise they'll have their most polluting cars virtually taxed off the raods their hand will be forced to produce more efficient engines. GUARANTEED. I can't think of a better persuasion to make more efficient cars can you? I'm no green warrior myself but I'm open to the realities of what the future holds re oil price etc.
Last edited by scoobynutta555; 12 March 2008 at 10:19 AM.
12 March 2008, 12:57 PM
#97
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I'm surprised at all these hopeful comments about how there are going to be fast cars just around the corner, which will use hardly any oil. There is a finite limit to what you're ever going to be able to extract from oil in terms of power:efficiency and modern engines aren't that far off it. What's much more likely is that there will eventually be little available other than cars with small, efficient engines that take ~20 seconds 0-60.
12 March 2008, 09:50 PM
#98
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Fast cars around the corner that don't use much oil? Erm, Lotus Elise I had did 49 mpg on NUL extra urban. If manufacturers didn't make band G anymore they would be forced to make less polluting cars or go out of business, simple.
The Telsa, based on an Elise is an electric car and does 0-60 in 5 seconds or less IIRC. it may cost £50k right now, but this will drop significantly as technology and demand improve. Surely a sign of the future.
What I'm saying is people won't miss 24 or less mpg Imprezas at all if they take the blinkers off. As much as I like Imprezas (I've had 5) I won't cry myself to sleep each night if road tax went up to a grand each year.
The Telsa, based on an Elise is an electric car and does 0-60 in 5 seconds or less IIRC. it may cost £50k right now, but this will drop significantly as technology and demand improve. Surely a sign of the future.
What I'm saying is people won't miss 24 or less mpg Imprezas at all if they take the blinkers off. As much as I like Imprezas (I've had 5) I won't cry myself to sleep each night if road tax went up to a grand each year.
12 March 2008, 10:03 PM
#100
can you resgister your car in another country, i.e poland, as there are lots of polish cars around here, and all they do is drive back to poland 2 times a year, and dont pay any tax etc here at all for there cars.
from what im told, insurance tax etc in poland is around £100-£150 a year!
from what im told, insurance tax etc in poland is around £100-£150 a year!
12 March 2008, 10:14 PM
#101
Fast cars around the corner that don't use much oil? Erm, Lotus Elise I had did 49 mpg on NUL extra urban. If manufacturers didn't make band G anymore they would be forced to make less polluting cars or go out of business, simple.
The Telsa, based on an Elise is an electric car and does 0-60 in 5 seconds or less IIRC. it may cost £50k right now, but this will drop significantly as technology and demand improve. Surely a sign of the future.
What I'm saying is people won't miss 24 or less mpg Imprezas at all if they take the blinkers off. As much as I like Imprezas (I've had 5) I won't cry myself to sleep each night if road tax went up to a grand each year.
The Telsa, based on an Elise is an electric car and does 0-60 in 5 seconds or less IIRC. it may cost £50k right now, but this will drop significantly as technology and demand improve. Surely a sign of the future.
What I'm saying is people won't miss 24 or less mpg Imprezas at all if they take the blinkers off. As much as I like Imprezas (I've had 5) I won't cry myself to sleep each night if road tax went up to a grand each year.
People driving less economical cars already pay more into the pot through that other tax, fuel duty. As it was, those in these types of car were already paying higher tax, than those with 'smaller/more economical' vehicles already, that was no problem, the problem is imposing a totally ridiculous hike in that tax. Yes have scales depending on the vehicle, but this is just outright legalised theft.
Remember, the newer impreza is a fairly affordable car, so not everyone driving around in them has money to burn. Those in cayenne's for example may be able to take the hit, but I would imagine many in imprezas, may not. Not to mention, this is affecting many more people out there than those considering or having just purchased a new impreza.
12 March 2008, 10:24 PM
#102
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My Impreza isn't a grand a year in tax. If Subaru choose to move away from producing high emission performance cars on the back of road tax then that'll be a shame but won't be the end of the world. As mentioned, several times now, there are many cars that are just as fast and more fun with lower emissions now. Subaru have known for some time now the way the political wind has blown and it's their fault they haven't modified their range accordingly. Perhaps now Subaru will pull their finger out of their **** and produce a lower banding car that actually looks nice.
High band cars WILL be severly taxed, fairly or unfairly it's here to stay. IMHO the only way to more efficient cars.
While you're here please answer my previouis question to you:
"You say there are many ways of encouragement, then you say these need explored by the powers that be. Please tell me what these ways are and how effective they have been thus far."
High band cars WILL be severly taxed, fairly or unfairly it's here to stay. IMHO the only way to more efficient cars.
While you're here please answer my previouis question to you:
"You say there are many ways of encouragement, then you say these need explored by the powers that be. Please tell me what these ways are and how effective they have been thus far."
12 March 2008, 10:45 PM
#103
My Impreza isn't a grand a year in tax. If Subaru choose to move away from producing high emission performance cars on the back of road tax then that'll be a shame but won't be the end of the world. As mentioned, several times now, there are many cars that are just as fast and more fun with lower emissions now. Subaru have known for some time now the way the political wind has blown and it's their fault they haven't modified their range accordingly. Perhaps now Subaru will pull their finger out of their **** and produce a lower banding car that actually looks nice.
High band cars WILL be severly taxed, fairly or unfairly it's here to stay. IMHO the only way to more efficient cars.
While you're here please answer my previouis question to you:
"You say there are many ways of encouragement, then you say these need explored by the powers that be. Please tell me what these ways are and how effective they have been thus far."
High band cars WILL be severly taxed, fairly or unfairly it's here to stay. IMHO the only way to more efficient cars.
While you're here please answer my previouis question to you:
"You say there are many ways of encouragement, then you say these need explored by the powers that be. Please tell me what these ways are and how effective they have been thus far."
. To be fair, I don't have all the answers, but that's why I'm not in power on an over inflated salary. I do think the idea of having free tax on very low emission vehicles a positive incentive. I also think having very low tax at the lower end of the scale good too. If it was down to me I certainly wouldn't have hiked the tax at the higher end up so much, as it was still higher than other more economical cars already, a small increase there, with a decrease on the lower band cars, may give incentive to some. Another, is target the car companies rather than average Joe. Don't just lob a tax on the public, hit the car companies directly, I'm not sure entirely how, and I'm aware whatever happens, would just be passed onto the consumer, but if there was a significant increase in price at the selling point, sales would most likely take a hit (moreso on the likes of an impreza, as it is relatively affordable, so may make a difference). Then companies may well be inclined to come up with more ecomomical cars. Go after those who are at the route of the problem.
As I've said before this isn't just affecting those going out to by a new impreza now, but people already owning one, opening up many problems for them, which I find wholeheartedly unfair.
Again this is yet another situation we find ourselves in where those in the middle who may not be massively well off are yet again hit the hardest. Those who can afford to go out and buy a car for 50,000+ will most likely be fine, and will continue on in their gas guzzler, while those in a reasonably priced car, not necessarily well off are getting fooked as usual.
12 March 2008, 10:59 PM
#104
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To be fair those who have owned a band G have known, or should have been aware that there was going to be tax hikes for their car. Yes, it may seem unfair that the public will have to pay this duty and not manufacturers, but whoever gets it, the car makers or the public, the public will end up paying in one form or another.
My view on the whole subject is to tax fuel and do away with road tax altogether, with big rises in a registration tax for high band cars in 2010.
Also, it's virtually impossible to get the full benefit of owning and driving a high performance car like a Subaru on our roads. Maybe an option for people who rarely drive their 'weekend' car is to SORN the car and use it for trackwork only. You'd then save through no tax MOT etc and put this money to fully exploiting the car on a track.
My view on the whole subject is to tax fuel and do away with road tax altogether, with big rises in a registration tax for high band cars in 2010.
Also, it's virtually impossible to get the full benefit of owning and driving a high performance car like a Subaru on our roads. Maybe an option for people who rarely drive their 'weekend' car is to SORN the car and use it for trackwork only. You'd then save through no tax MOT etc and put this money to fully exploiting the car on a track.
12 March 2008, 11:24 PM
#105
I would agree with getting rid of road tax, and just paying fuel duty, but that is selfish on my part, as our car doesn't get used much. It may be a fairer solution. I don't know and don't claim to have all the answers.
As I say, I don't claim to have a fair fix it, but I can't accept the current system as being fair.
One thing I will say, is it has been nice to have a reasonable discussion with you, in that our views differ, but we have at least been able to flog it out in a respectful manner. I wish I could say the same for some others on this site. (not on this thread btw).
As I say, I don't claim to have a fair fix it, but I can't accept the current system as being fair.
One thing I will say, is it has been nice to have a reasonable discussion with you, in that our views differ, but we have at least been able to flog it out in a respectful manner. I wish I could say the same for some others on this site. (not on this thread btw).
13 March 2008, 12:38 AM
#108
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That's 30yrs away fella + it was 30yrs away 30yrs ago, if that makes any sense 
We'll all be in the same boat though when oil runs out + we'll be taxed on whatever takes its place ...
As has been posted above, this is not just about car tax. I'm fed up to the back teeth of new tax after new tax along with rises in taxes that I already fecking pay! If I had a mate who's a rocket scientist I'd ask him to work out how much I pay as it's that fecking complicated that almost no one can work out what %age of their salary goes to the Govt any more.
Yours, seriously hacked off TX.
We'll all be in the same boat though when oil runs out + we'll be taxed on whatever takes its place ...As has been posted above, this is not just about car tax. I'm fed up to the back teeth of new tax after new tax along with rises in taxes that I already fecking pay! If I had a mate who's a rocket scientist I'd ask him to work out how much I pay as it's that fecking complicated that almost no one can work out what %age of their salary goes to the Govt any more.
Yours, seriously hacked off TX.
13 March 2008, 11:41 AM
#110
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I've already said 'fella', I'm no green warrior, just open mind to reality. There is a political zeal common among the major parties that emissions will be tackled. This won't change so you'll have to deal with it. There may well be oil in 30+ years from now, however as the finite resource decreases the price will increase if there is a high demand, thereby making your band g cars petrol very, very expensive. So whilst trying to stem the flow through more economical vehicles to prolong the reserves might be a good idea don't you think 'fella' or is pi55ing everything up the wall and forgetting the next generation your prefered option?
By tackling the very real issues of finite oil supply now and not 30 years hance, we'll be in a much better situation, even doubling the 30 year supply or whatever it is. Or would you rather further ham fisted meddling in oil producing regions, regime changing many oil producing nations just to sate our immediate wasteful demands?
It's the distinct lack of the bigger picture, even concern for others apart from the price of fuel that goes into a tank that just amuses me when the same old doom-mongers come out of the woodwork and try to pin their life's anger on some anti establishment bandwagon rant.
The only applause you'll hear from me is the slow handclap of ignorance recognition.
By tackling the very real issues of finite oil supply now and not 30 years hance, we'll be in a much better situation, even doubling the 30 year supply or whatever it is. Or would you rather further ham fisted meddling in oil producing regions, regime changing many oil producing nations just to sate our immediate wasteful demands?
It's the distinct lack of the bigger picture, even concern for others apart from the price of fuel that goes into a tank that just amuses me when the same old doom-mongers come out of the woodwork and try to pin their life's anger on some anti establishment bandwagon rant.
The only applause you'll hear from me is the slow handclap of ignorance recognition.
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