Bike v Scoob ?
26 January 2002, 10:12 AM
#31
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Interesting comments chaps. However, the P1 guys all disagree!
Lets face it only thing we get to race is the bikes, on clear roads of course! An R6 normally won't even race a P1, my experience and verified by other owners
Lets face it its nearly always damp and the P1 will keep up perfectly fine in the bike on the straight and the AWD owns the bike in the corners.
Against an R1 things get very interesting.... i lost an acceleration contest against an R1 from 50 - *** (cough - something high) In doing so i lost around 70 feet. Now same said R1 approached twisty bits and i was back on him.
The bike will always win on a dry straight, on a wet straight it gets less so, the bike will only continue to win on bone dry corners, any hint of wetness and the P1 will be all over him.
A bike versus a high power scooby on a wet road is like you racing the computer in GT3, you destroy the computers in the straights and he generally beats you over the corners till you get good!
I don't know about you guys but the P1 guys can id a bike from its sillouhette and thus decide whether to bother depending on road conditions
Lets face it only thing we get to race is the bikes, on clear roads of course! An R6 normally won't even race a P1, my experience and verified by other owners
Lets face it its nearly always damp and the P1 will keep up perfectly fine in the bike on the straight and the AWD owns the bike in the corners.Against an R1 things get very interesting.... i lost an acceleration contest against an R1 from 50 - *** (cough - something high) In doing so i lost around 70 feet. Now same said R1 approached twisty bits and i was back on him.
The bike will always win on a dry straight, on a wet straight it gets less so, the bike will only continue to win on bone dry corners, any hint of wetness and the P1 will be all over him.
A bike versus a high power scooby on a wet road is like you racing the computer in GT3, you destroy the computers in the straights and he generally beats you over the corners till you get good!
I don't know about you guys but the P1 guys can id a bike from its sillouhette and thus decide whether to bother depending on road conditions
26 January 2002, 11:04 AM
#33
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Put a powerful Scoob (P1 included) up against a R1 or Blade or GSXR1000 or any decent bike and as long as the guy on the bike can ride and it's not wet (In know it's a lot to ask for), the bike will win.
The thing is you can't judge the performance of a bike unless you know that the rider is the nuts. Anyone can drive a scoob reasonably fast and not kill themselves but to ride a bike fast you have to know what your doing.
My M8s Mutant-Matt and Colin are the nuts when it comes to riding bikes and I'd bet on them any day. (Given the right conditions) but if it were me when I had my bike, the scoob would win every time.
Mike
The thing is you can't judge the performance of a bike unless you know that the rider is the nuts. Anyone can drive a scoob reasonably fast and not kill themselves but to ride a bike fast you have to know what your doing.
My M8s Mutant-Matt and Colin are the nuts when it comes to riding bikes and I'd bet on them any day. (Given the right conditions) but if it were me when I had my bike, the scoob would win every time.
Mike
26 January 2002, 11:34 AM
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Chaps,
This fallicy about bikes can't corner in the wet is a load of rubbish!!!!! Sure, you have to be smoother, can't lay it on it's side quite so aggressively, you have to be a little more careful nailing out of bends as you come upright but the things is, a large number of bike riders either don't know how to ride fast in the wet, or are too scared too!!!!!! Just watch a GP500/WSB race in the wet and watch the speeds and lean angles.....
I've been riding 12 years and if I'm honest, it's only the last 2-3 years that I've actually been able to ride properly. Before that, I was probably riding my bikes to about 30% of their ability, now I'd put myself at about 75-80% (it's taken that much practise to get this far
). To be honest, I blow away *most* bikers I come across, usually on better bikes (I've got a Thunderace), as the average skill level of the average sports bike rider is pants!!!, but I suspect that the Bike riders on this board are above average so probably would not be quite so lucky against them 
I can honestly say that in the wet, on my bike, I would loose me driving my Scoob (and I *think* there are some people on this board who would back up the fact that *can* actually drive too ( )). In the dry, the difference A to B would be just plain embarrasing.....
You notice also that everybody on here who rides a bike as well as drives a Scoob says that the bike is faster?
Matt
P.S. Mike (RB170), thanks for the kind comments m8
This fallicy about bikes can't corner in the wet is a load of rubbish!!!!! Sure, you have to be smoother, can't lay it on it's side quite so aggressively, you have to be a little more careful nailing out of bends as you come upright but the things is, a large number of bike riders either don't know how to ride fast in the wet, or are too scared too!!!!!! Just watch a GP500/WSB race in the wet and watch the speeds and lean angles.....
I've been riding 12 years and if I'm honest, it's only the last 2-3 years that I've actually been able to ride properly. Before that, I was probably riding my bikes to about 30% of their ability, now I'd put myself at about 75-80% (it's taken that much practise to get this far
). To be honest, I blow away *most* bikers I come across, usually on better bikes (I've got a Thunderace), as the average skill level of the average sports bike rider is pants!!!, but I suspect that the Bike riders on this board are above average so probably would not be quite so lucky against them I can honestly say that in the wet, on my bike, I would loose me driving my Scoob (and I *think* there are some people on this board who would back up the fact that *can* actually drive too (
)). In the dry, the difference A to B would be just plain embarrasing.....You notice also that everybody on here who rides a bike as well as drives a Scoob says that the bike is faster?
Matt
P.S. Mike (RB170), thanks for the kind comments m8
26 January 2002, 11:36 AM
#36
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And before you all jump down my throat, please please please lets not start/let this escillate into another Bike vs Car thread.....we've done this one too many times to death already 
Everything is of course, IMHO!!!
(please)
Matt
Everything is of course, IMHO!!!
(please)
Matt
26 January 2002, 11:53 AM
#37
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Thank you for that mutant_*fountain of all knowledge *matt
Having *cough* ridden a bike on a private road and been a passenger several times on a bike with a rider who damn well knows how to ride one........
1. A real bike rider will not be an idiot and drive like a loony on the road just to prove that the bike will beat the Impreza.
2. Those things are evil, quite a different thrill to a fast car, you have to know what you are doing in order to control the sheer power from those damn things.
I think I will wait till I am less of a speed junky before I buy one as I know I will kill myself on one.
Scoob against a bike, if we are talking 600+er and a good rider, the Impreza won't touch it. Especially on the straight.
Again, you have to have ridden a bike to know
Cheers,
Michelle.
(Edited cos one of my sentences could have been open to some dodgy interpretation)
[Edited by MichelleWRX1994 - 1/26/2002 12:01:45 PM]
*matt Having *cough* ridden a bike on a private road
and been a passenger several times on a bike with a rider who damn well knows how to ride one........1. A real bike rider will not be an idiot and drive like a loony on the road just to prove that the bike will beat the Impreza.
2. Those things are evil, quite a different thrill to a fast car, you have to know what you are doing in order to control the sheer power from those damn things.
I think I will wait till I am less of a speed junky before I buy one as I know I will kill myself on one.
Scoob against a bike, if we are talking 600+er and a good rider, the Impreza won't touch it. Especially on the straight.
Again, you have to have ridden a bike to know
Cheers,
Michelle.
(Edited cos one of my sentences could have been open to some dodgy interpretation
)[Edited by MichelleWRX1994 - 1/26/2002 12:01:45 PM]
26 January 2002, 12:00 PM
#38
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Well those are the most fun places to drive Tiggs. Unless you like driving in a straight line in the dry - any fool can drive a car/bike fast in a straight line.
Im not arguing bikes arent quicker - the facts show they are until you get up to supercar/f1 car performance. The thing is I know I wouldnt trust myself on a bike - nor the idiots sharing the same roads as me. Carl Fogarty could be driving his bike on the road at 40 mph and and a little old lady in her metro pulls out in front of u - your out of it. A good car allows you to travel as fast as one would want to on UK roads, listen to your music, chat to your passengers, keep dry and warm (or nice and cool if its the summer), takes a lot less concentration to drive, you can drive long distances without losing all feeling in your butt cheeks, you can go get the shopping, take dog/bike/similar out, stand a good chance of surviving an average collision (airbags etc)... the list goes on. A bike gives you that extra acceleration (in the right hands and if youve got the *****) and allows you to beat the traffic (which is dangerous in itself).
Im not arguing bikes arent quicker - the facts show they are until you get up to supercar/f1 car performance. The thing is I know I wouldnt trust myself on a bike - nor the idiots sharing the same roads as me. Carl Fogarty could be driving his bike on the road at 40 mph and and a little old lady in her metro pulls out in front of u - your out of it. A good car allows you to travel as fast as one would want to on UK roads, listen to your music, chat to your passengers, keep dry and warm (or nice and cool if its the summer), takes a lot less concentration to drive, you can drive long distances without losing all feeling in your butt cheeks, you can go get the shopping, take dog/bike/similar out, stand a good chance of surviving an average collision (airbags etc)... the list goes on. A bike gives you that extra acceleration (in the right hands and if youve got the *****) and allows you to beat the traffic (which is dangerous in itself).
26 January 2002, 12:01 PM
#39
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sense at last!
Tiggs
ps- i rode at spa in the wet (always wet there) with 207Gps (road tyres) i had the back in the end at the end of the straight braking from flat out and still got through knee/toe sliders with ease.
wet means slower but as the bikes are sooooo much faster anyway we can afford to back of and still be quicker than cars (road cars)
Tiggs
ps- i rode at spa in the wet (always wet there) with 207Gps (road tyres) i had the back in the end at the end of the straight braking from flat out and still got through knee/toe sliders with ease.
wet means slower but as the bikes are sooooo much faster anyway we can afford to back of and still be quicker than cars (road cars)
26 January 2002, 12:25 PM
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I tried to let this go but couldn't...
A few things about the differences between bikes and cars...
A half decent bike will murder most cars on acceleration. AWD means nothing when you're up against 500+bhp/ton, assuming at least slightly reasonable levels of grip.
A sports bike on road tyres will not carry as much corner speed as a decent car on road tyres. It pains me to admit this.
An average driver can throw, say, a Scooby into a bend and even if it slides s/he can ride it out and have avery good chance of coming out shiny side up. They can also brake and accelerate mid corner with relative impunity.
An average bike rider will fall off if they start sliding on the road. So will most above average ones. If you see someone sliding their R1 and they aren't already racing then I suggest you sponsor them before they get famous...
Round the 'ring I am virtually as quick in my scoob as I am on my GSX-R. And I'm a bike instructor there... I make time up on the bike going up Kesselchen (4km uphill section) and along Dottinger Hohe and Quiddelbacher Hohe (fairly long sort of straights) where the better power to weight and higher top speed really count.
Bottom line? To go as quickly on a bike as you can in a car you need to be (a) pretty skilful, (b) pretty committed and (c) on a good bike with good grip.
Oh, and on the road, in the wet? Forget it - I'll take me Scoob.
A few things about the differences between bikes and cars...
A half decent bike will murder most cars on acceleration. AWD means nothing when you're up against 500+bhp/ton, assuming at least slightly reasonable levels of grip.
A sports bike on road tyres will not carry as much corner speed as a decent car on road tyres. It pains me to admit this.
An average driver can throw, say, a Scooby into a bend and even if it slides s/he can ride it out and have avery good chance of coming out shiny side up. They can also brake and accelerate mid corner with relative impunity.
An average bike rider will fall off if they start sliding on the road. So will most above average ones. If you see someone sliding their R1 and they aren't already racing then I suggest you sponsor them before they get famous...
Round the 'ring I am virtually as quick in my scoob as I am on my GSX-R. And I'm a bike instructor there... I make time up on the bike going up Kesselchen (4km uphill section) and along Dottinger Hohe and Quiddelbacher Hohe (fairly long sort of straights) where the better power to weight and higher top speed really count.
Bottom line? To go as quickly on a bike as you can in a car you need to be (a) pretty skilful, (b) pretty committed and (c) on a good bike with good grip.
Oh, and on the road, in the wet? Forget it - I'll take me Scoob.
26 January 2002, 12:51 PM
#41
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driving on cack roads is best is it????? i found that the long bends of motorway joining roads were perfect places for knee down laughs so i guess one advantage of the bike is that you dont have to live on a farm to be in your element
Tiggs
ps- skill thing is important. i dont drive my scoob much quicker now than when i got it but my first track day on a bike (at which point a thought i was a bike god!) was very embarrasing- it took me 3 years of 30 track days a year to get to where i was when i quit doing track days.
Tiggs
ps- skill thing is important. i dont drive my scoob much quicker now than when i got it but my first track day on a bike (at which point a thought i was a bike god!) was very embarrasing- it took me 3 years of 30 track days a year to get to where i was when i quit doing track days.
26 January 2002, 01:23 PM
#42
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Tiggs I have aquired my old chaps Mille-R which is very nice cos he wants a new VFR 800 so I`m gonna go club racing on my Gixer this year but only a cpouple of rounds with work and family commitments ya know.
Give us a shout if you got ant tyre warmers or lap timer or anything you think may be usefull.
Give us a shout if you got ant tyre warmers or lap timer or anything you think may be usefull.
26 January 2002, 01:37 PM
#43
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arron,
most of my gear that would suit anyone (ie- tyre warmes, etc) went pretty quick, i've got plenty of R1 bits (rear sets, plastic, damper) if you fancy getting a proper bike
however! lap timer is still around somewhere but has no beacon (me and my mates had one beacon between us) if you want just the timer-im sure u could buy a beacon seperate- let me know if/when interested.
Tiggs
most of my gear that would suit anyone (ie- tyre warmes, etc) went pretty quick, i've got plenty of R1 bits (rear sets, plastic, damper) if you fancy getting a proper bike
however! lap timer is still around somewhere but has no beacon (me and my mates had one beacon between us) if you want just the timer-im sure u could buy a beacon seperate- let me know if/when interested.
Tiggs
26 January 2002, 02:41 PM
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Well I enjoy both my car & my bike (Triumph Daytona 955i) but I get more out of riding my bike around the twisty roads near here than the car. Traffic is less of a problem & I get more satisfaction after a twisty bit well rode but I`m probably no faster, if any, on the bike. As its been said before, the skill level to ride fast has to be so much higher than driving quick in the car. How many bikers on here have gone round a bend that they thought they could`nt make, tensed up & gone straight on heading toward the hedge? in a car you just put more lock on & brake a little. See, driving, dead easy, even women can do it
26 January 2002, 03:14 PM
#46
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See, driving, dead easy, even women can do it
<sleep mode off>
Sorry, did you say something interesting or intelligent? Ah no, I see you didn't
<sleep mode on>
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Michelle
26 January 2002, 03:46 PM
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This is like the damn doritos advert with the blokes arguing against the ladies. Then the women come back with "we can have multiple orgasms". End of argument.
26 January 2002, 04:19 PM
#51
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Lee,
LOL, I hear ya m8 - like I said, out of the 12 years riding, it's only the last 2-3 years that I've managed to overcome the survival instincts like that one which now enables me to ride round those scary moments and keep it on the road
Matt
How many bikers on here have gone round a bend that they thought they could`nt make, tensed up & gone straight on heading toward the hedge? in a car you just put more lock on & brake a little.
Matt
26 January 2002, 07:19 PM
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got me a 97 gsxr 750, & my catalunya is not a patch on my bike in a straight line, however chuck in a coule of twisties, a handful of man holes/drain covers, the odd bit of debris & some real world conditions & id rather be in me scoob any day,heat,stereo,4wd,airbags etc. unless it was a very sunny day on a lovely open road so i could thrape the sh*t out of my gixer...... roll on the summer i cant wait.
i cant wait.
26 January 2002, 07:23 PM
#55
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My 2pence worth..........
I've got a Scoob and a Suzuki GSXR600 and my bike is always faster A to B unless weather conditions are terrible. You've got to remember that bikes take up a lot less space than cars (obvious but true) and so lines through corners can be taken so that corner speed can be kept high. As for straight line acceleration - forget racing a bike up to say 130 (bike aerodynmics suck above that when you're riding a 600) it'll just disappear.
The only car that has ever caused me any problems was a race-prepped Lotus Elise I met on Pirbright Bends. That thing would go round corners like nothing I have ever seen and I had to work bloody hard to stay with it (I consider myself a pretty competent rider) but the respect was mutual between the driver and myself.
At the end of the day people who ride bikes and drive performance cars like Scoobies/Evo's etc do it cos thats what they enjoy. Forget all the rivalry, lets just get out there and have fun!
DP.
I've got a Scoob and a Suzuki GSXR600 and my bike is always faster A to B unless weather conditions are terrible. You've got to remember that bikes take up a lot less space than cars (obvious but true) and so lines through corners can be taken so that corner speed can be kept high. As for straight line acceleration - forget racing a bike up to say 130 (bike aerodynmics suck above that when you're riding a 600) it'll just disappear.
The only car that has ever caused me any problems was a race-prepped Lotus Elise I met on Pirbright Bends. That thing would go round corners like nothing I have ever seen and I had to work bloody hard to stay with it (I consider myself a pretty competent rider) but the respect was mutual between the driver and myself.
At the end of the day people who ride bikes and drive performance cars like Scoobies/Evo's etc do it cos thats what they enjoy. Forget all the rivalry, lets just get out there and have fun!
DP.
26 January 2002, 09:43 PM
#57
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Don't be pissed off when an R6 dusts you, at Silverstone one lovely sunny summers day the Pole position was occupied in the British Sports Production race which is support to British Superbikes by an R6 (120bhp), 2nd was an R1 (150bhp)!
26 January 2002, 11:11 PM
#58
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i have seen a mac f1 up agenst a 1200 bandit (the proof of the pudding is in the eating )and the bike wins hands down every time after 5 tries the mac gave in knockhill rc dry day (belive it or not )
garry
gos away with a smile caus he has a scooby & gsxr1100
garry
gos away with a smile caus he has a scooby & gsxr1100
27 January 2002, 01:08 PM
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Just to let you know folks until a scooby can out accelerate a tvr cerberra (0-60 in 3.5 secs)then you are not going to touch any sports bike 600cc plus.
I have only been hassled by two cars on my ZX6-R and that was the cerberra and porsche 911 RSR. These 2 cars made my jaw hit the floor, they were outstanding! The TVR will keep up with a 600cc sports bike until the twisties until its back end starts whipping out but in straight line speed it is easily the best value for money for 40k compared to porsches and other hugely expensive sports cars!!! As for the porsche RSR i don't know anything about them as i believe they are pretty rare and it got stuck in traffic so I never got to push it very far.
As for one person commenting earlier 600cc's will be good to about 140 this is complete nonsense, the ZX6-R has an official top end of 167 and I have tested to the full on a lovely local quiet dual carriage way and it hit this no problem and went off the clocks!!! Bit scary as things get blurred, and no I am not saying its big and clever but I always like to try out what my new purchases can do when the conditions are right, ie no rozzers, dry weather, long straight dual carriage way and very little other traffic.
Bikes will waste pretty much any road car but there is no comparison come wet weather for being in a nice warm fast car with the radio on and being in comfort, I have done far too much wet weather riding and its the most uncomfortable experience ever!
For scooby owners who have never been on a bike, get your licence and get a bike for hot sunny sundays in summer!!! You won't regret it!
I have only been hassled by two cars on my ZX6-R and that was the cerberra and porsche 911 RSR. These 2 cars made my jaw hit the floor, they were outstanding! The TVR will keep up with a 600cc sports bike until the twisties until its back end starts whipping out but in straight line speed it is easily the best value for money for 40k compared to porsches and other hugely expensive sports cars!!! As for the porsche RSR i don't know anything about them as i believe they are pretty rare and it got stuck in traffic so I never got to push it very far.
As for one person commenting earlier 600cc's will be good to about 140 this is complete nonsense, the ZX6-R has an official top end of 167 and I have tested to the full on a lovely local quiet dual carriage way and it hit this no problem and went off the clocks!!! Bit scary as things get blurred, and no I am not saying its big and clever but I always like to try out what my new purchases can do when the conditions are right, ie no rozzers, dry weather, long straight dual carriage way and very little other traffic.
Bikes will waste pretty much any road car but there is no comparison come wet weather for being in a nice warm fast car with the radio on and being in comfort, I have done far too much wet weather riding and its the most uncomfortable experience ever!
For scooby owners who have never been on a bike, get your licence and get a bike for hot sunny sundays in summer!!! You won't regret it!
27 January 2002, 02:03 PM
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Bravo M8
No one said that a 600 is good for 140. What was said was a R6 is good for 150 - 160 if not more. My CBR600 was good for about 170 with someone else riding it
But I do agree that everyone should get their bike licence, if nothing else people will realise just how vulnerable bikers can be at times and how fast and how much fun they can be
Mike
[Edited by RB170 - 1/27/2002 2:04:29 PM]
No one said that a 600 is good for 140. What was said was a R6 is good for 150 - 160 if not more. My CBR600 was good for about 170 with someone else riding it
But I do agree that everyone should get their bike licence, if nothing else people will realise just how vulnerable bikers can be at times and how fast and how much fun they can be
Mike
[Edited by RB170 - 1/27/2002 2:04:29 PM]