Simon C

I don't go for trophy's anyway. My prefered choice of tool is a rifle, not a bow, and I 99% of the time go for head shots only.

Reason being, you reduce the chances of wounding an animal if you miss, but you have to be a much better shot.

I am an archer, and I would only use 1 as a second choice.

Diesel

Some rose tinted issues here! For every good clean kill I bet there are many more that die a slow lingering painful death. That woman with a crossbow got lucky; I would imagine that many novices miss (and I would hardly call the sick minded sadists that go on these 'holidays' proper ethical hunters after all). How about an arrow in the eye for a month anyone?

The 'farmers' made a good case for themeselves, but lets not forget this is clearly morally wrong and indicative of a sick sadistic cruel streak in certain humans that regresses to primitive bloodlust. Certainly wouldnt trust such people with my kids if they have such violent cruel tendencies deep down - makes you wonder what else lurks...

D

Simon C

No worse than being a small holder and killing your own livestock.

By your statement Diesel, no doubt you see fly and sea fishing with the same dark view.

Diesel

Absolutely not, and I hope my previous posts show that. Killing for food is nature, killing for base bloodlust or trophies is well sick.

Nothing nicer than a fresh trout or plaice when I've been lucky enough to catch one.

D

Tiggs

that doesnt fly - have a jam sandwhich and leave the poor fish in the sea...you dont NEED to kill the fish....you just want to because its yummy, hardly a decent reason if you are then going to slate those killing for sport.

Simon C

If by bloodlust you are refering to the americans featured, then yes I would tend to agree, however if you include people like me who choose to gather their own meat rather than buy from Supermarkets then we won't agree.

I personally believe that the meat I eat has had a much better quality of life than farmed animals.

Tiggs

for clarity - killing for food you NEED is nature, killing the way we (modern humans) do is for pleasure. Whether the pleasure comes from the taste or the sport...neither is NEEDED and both are done for self satisfaction.

Diesel

Simon am I not being clear here as I agree with you? We have pointy canine teeth and digestive tracts developed to eat meat and it is 100% natural for us to do so. It has to involve compassion in killing and farming though or I just go for a pain and terror free jam sarnie...

Tiggs the NEED argument could be applied to many things. I really dont need to live on Nut Loaves though! Meat eating is the human norm and I'd invoke The Big Guy's assistance to help here as it was his idea not mine! His gag was to give me compassion and screw it all up!

D

Simon C

Nope, t'was me having a bad bad bad day, fecking servers.

al4x1

please tell me you don't head shoot anything bigger than rabbits? You've only got to be a little low and you blow the animals jaw off, chest shots are taken as they give you more room for error an animal with no heart and lungs can still run a short distance on adrenalin alone but won't go far.
As far as bow hunting is concerned I'm not sure about it but the fact the arrows will go straight through something Zebra size says that they have developed a bit over time and do kill pretty humanely. The yanks may shoot for trophys as well as the meat but its not that different to us wearing shoes and the likes made from the animals, the fact that the specimens they look for are mature and hence coming to the end of their natural life

Diesel

Did you see the same doc as me? Non food animals Animals were bred to be shot - including primates. Did you see the lions?

D

PS I dont wear tiger shoes or baboon belts. Leather is a by product of the meat for food industry and perfectly valid. Crocodile shoes are not...

al4x1

yep I saw the same doc, crocs may be a bad example as they are edible,

Bred to be shot is not quite the right terminology, the lions were but many of the other species it was more a case of maintaining a breeding population and shooting some of them while increasing the population that existed. Whether you like it or not Shooting and conservation go very much hand in hand. In the uk the managed shooting land has a far higher diversity of animals than non managed land and the documentary ended up coming to that conclusion. Despite looking at the shadiest part of the industry, If the land wasn't used for shooting they would graze cattle on it which would ruin the habitat and exclude many of the other species which would then be fenced off the land rather than into it. Canned hunting is not what people generally go to Africa for and yet it still came out of that documentary quite well considering. Africa generally as the farmer said is ****ed its subsistence farming in many areas and the wildlife has no value to the locals. Animals ruin their crops and in the worst cases eat them so you can see why they will kill wildlife. Leaving it unmanaged for wealthy foreigners to visit and look at and photo isn't going to save it they've a massive elephant problem at the moment killing trees in areas where trees are very hard to grow. Culling via selling the shooting makes sense as it brings money into the economy and the locals do eat elephant and it means they get sellective culling and the numbers reduced. Its not something most people will understand and is why that farmer who tried to get the point accross to Louis lost the plot a bit. The other side of it is that the elephants are protected and left and desertify huge areas till they starve from lack of food along with much of the other wildlife. In a few of the National parks that are fenced in this is becoming a real possibility.

dpb

The Campfire project ? - but I thought it was the locals who had were allowed shoot a certain number of elephants .


(ie the villagers)

Diesel

I get the conservation bit mate. It's just that morals should transcend the notion of breeding, drugging and shooting animals in cold blood that have no food value. Frankly it is repulsive, dark and sick (but I'm going a bit about the same thing now )

D

Tiggs

Whats the difference between a lion breed to be shot and a cow breed for burger king?

Eating a whopper or shooting a lion is not a necessity for anyone, if anything - shooting the lion is probably better for your health.

Both give pleasure to those who partake, odd though that may be.

And the lion has the FAR better life while it awaits its end.

Tiggs

quick bit of googling will find some websites where you can arrange an elephant shoot...i have nothing against it...but odd all the same!

Prasius

iTrader: (1)

..also lets remember that many wild animals also hunt and kill for sport and pleasure - the UK's Anti-Hunting luvvie that is the Fox being one of them. (Slightly off-topic - but from observation I believe the number of foxes killed on the roads has increased massively since hunting has been banned... I cannot provide any statistics or proof of a connection, but I've certainly seen more fox road kill in the last couple of years than I ever have previously... )

al4x1 is very correct IMO - also what wasn't brought out in that programme is that many non-hunted species; insects, reptiles, birds, small mammals, etc, whos habitat would have otherwise been destroyed by conventional farming will have also been saved from extinction by 'canned hunting' farms.

I have said I can't get my head how someone gets enjoyment out of that sort of hunting - the phrase duck shoot can't be used as thats considerably more difficult, I speak from experience! But I can't deny the fact that many species will be saved from extinction by allowing some to be bred for the sole purpose of being trophy game.

Diesel

One is for food (essential and normal) one isnt (unecessary perverse indulgent bloodlust). Quite simply one is legit for the great majority of omnivores one isnt.

I'l leave you to decide which one as you chomp into a Lion bar maybe

D

Tiggs

A burger at a fast food restraunt is not essential..in fact, its not even good for you! Its a luxury that has NOTHING to do with human needs and EVERYTHING to do with human desire for pleasure.

Burger king / lion hunt - all the same, its about killing an animal so that a human can gain pleasure from something they could do without (and would probably be better off without) the only difference is the UK cow has a crap life while Leo gets to kick back in the sun and chill all day.

Diesel

You are talking stuff that makes no sense to me at all - different planet stuff!!! What on earth makes you think that a burger isnt valid omnivore nutrition (once in a while ) or that a cow on a UK farm has a crap life??? Please explain?

I took my young kids to a mates farm yet again recently so as they grow up with compassion, liking and respect for food animals.



Why is this concept so difficult for some - food and bl00dy respect?



There is no need to be callous, lose compassion or play 'tough' to compensate. We had Welsh lamb chops that very night... Dont be in denial or overcompensation modes!

That's my last comment as this is going round in circles now, and I've made my point several times on a heartfelt issue.

The rest is up to your compassion & consicience (or lack of ) - ohh but please dont go paying thousands of Rand to go hiding in pre-fab 'bushes' to take thrill driven, big ball making, pot-shots at these lambs - they are farm animlas, not wild beasts!

D

SideShowBob

I watched the show expecting to get on my moral high horse about how terrible hunting is and how disgusting the hunters are, but came away thinking the farmers had good points and are ultimately giving an animal a value the poorer majority can relate to, so thereby encouraging conservation.

They said the buck and pigs they shoot get given to the local communities who will definitely appreciate it, and it will provide a good source of food to them, which is nothing but positive.

The only part I disagreed with is hunting Lions, they arent a source of food, so that's when it becomes pure sport.

Tiggs

I dont get the "food" issue - why is food such a big deal? A nice meal out is not a human need, its for pleasure....as is hunting.

You cant separate needed food and luxury food so you have to accept a HUGE amount of western meat is produced for peoples pleasure and not their requirements (and in fact it is actually BAD for them in many cases)