Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

Stock up on beans, and guns, the end is nigh!

FlightMan

Guns is easy but have you seen the price of beans!

MikeCardiff

iTrader: (2)

Snazy - I dont think its a selfish attitude at all ! OK, some people on low incomes may get into trouble through no real fault of their own, but I'll bet 90% of the people who will struggle and moan are the ones who have either bought a house they cant afford by lying about their income or taking out a stupid mortgage ( often without thinking what will happen when their 2 year low rate ends ) or people who have 'released their equity' to pay for new cars, big TV's and holidays, and could now end up with negative equity.

In reality, I think the percentage of these people is probably fairly low compared to sensible people out there who havent built up huge debts. It often seems that the people who cant afford things are the ones who buy them anyway and end up stuffed.

With the last bad recession in the 90's the only reason there were so many repossessions was because the interest rates shot up, and at that time most people were on tracker mortgages as long term fixed rate ones werent that common.

This led to a lot of people who were still in work not being able to afford their mortgage payments as they had risen so much. I remember my father telling me that at the time the interest rates peaked, he was paying something like 60% of his take home pay on the mortgage, and having to support a wife and three kids. He had a decent job, and earned OK money, but it was still quite tight for a while.

Snazy

Who you calling a muppet? Ooooh thats offensive, let me log into my other account and infract you

NOWT to do with the current government? So economic GROWTH is all their doing and they should be hailed as frickin hero's. But something bad happens, and there is NOTHING they could do about it?............. You're sure about that now?

Just like Labour eh.... in the crap, wash your hands of it. lol



Mike, naturally I mean selfish in a good way, as in each for their own for once, and knuckle down and get yourselves sorted out
As for the rest, I agree completely

Thankfully I dont fall too much into the brackets of the above, so have little to worry about..... I think Good luck to those worst affected

davegtt

YouTube - Fun & Frivolity with Gordon Brown

Snazy

lol loving the movie

Ooooh speakin of Flash, did anyone see on the news when he appeared on Americal Idol or whatever it was, to pledge another £100m we dont have?

Where did he learn that fake smile from. Was not long til the mouth dropped open again though lol Can we change the name of the smiley to Brown or something lol.

Imagine how much further his jaw dropped when he realised how much of a mess he was making of the country (Tories fault though Pete )

Shark Man

It's greats to have a bit of spitting image-esq satire back on TV

"I'm on heat and I want *****....pay up Clinton"

Snazy

Loving the counting myself lol

Leslie

Yes of course it is a world wide problem, just like the last recession when the Conservatives were in power. They at least were able to turn our economy around and when it was handed to your heroes it was stronger than it had been for many years.

Your wonderful ex chancellor spent all those years overborrowing to make our economy look artificially strong. Cheap money was available and people were encouraged into the "want it now" mentality and borrowed beyond their means in many cases to keep up with the Joneses. He threw all the money away in a useless bureaurocracy which is a good way to buy votes of course and he keeps throwing it at useless causes, and his biggest sin was the failure to save our country's money for a rainy day-such as we see now. We have nothing in reserve worth talking about and he even flogged off half our gold reserves for the cheapest price available! What is that worth now in comparison Pete?

All we have to look forward to now are more and more taxes to fill in the reported £20 billion hole in the economy now! Our GDP is going to suffer even more too.

Perhap's you could justify your heroes' performance over the last eleven years Pete! I would be interested to know where I might have got it all wrong.

Les

PeteBrant

Les,

We have had 11 years of low infaltion and low interest rates. Far lower and sustained for longer than anything the Tories ever managed.

Public services under the Tories were an absolute joke. We had the lowest levels of funding in Europe in terms of GDP percentage for Healtth, education and anumber of other servies under the Tories.

The trade of for that was a relatively low Tax bill for us all.

Now, you have a choice to make. Either you want good public servicies and taxes to pay for them, or you don't care about public services and you want to pay less tax. You can;t have it both ways.


The Tories are at last admitting that this is the case by not pledging to lower taxes.

They sepnt 18 yearts absolutely raping public services and the result of that was us having to foot a huge bill to revamp the whole lot.

Public borrowing is at £43Billion.

Under the tories in the early 90's it hit £45billion - Adjust for inflation and that is massive more than the defecit this government has ever had.


People have very short and selective memories when it coems to politics. THis government is not perfect by any means. And I beleive it was only a matte rof time before alow interes tlow inflation economy caused a problem. But as we saw under the Tories, a boom and bust economy was no better and probably much worse.

Turbo2

I'm relatively new to SN and have known nothing but financial doom and gloom on here, but can the old stagers tell me if there were frequent threads during the last 11 years along the lines of:

"Have we ever had it so good?"

OR:

"Blimey, look at me: I'm f*****g loaded!"

Shark Man

No but lots of Optimax threads posted with concern to its use in vehicles doing sub 20mpg

unclebuck

Yes, there have been many, many - nearly all started by 'pslewis'

pslewis

Well, I'm doing jolly well ..... thanks all the same

Anyone who hasn't made a pot load of cash under Labour have missed a full-on opportunity ... not anyones fault, but their own.

Les, you are me and me you - please don't back the Tories like that!

speedking

What worries me is that all of us frugal savers without the big TVs and X5s will be asked to bail out the profligate.

This has already happened with Northern Rock.

As repossessions occur and people get moved into council houses, it will be me who has to foot the bill, yet I haven't had the benefit of buying on the never never. I hope that those who have overextended are made to pay, so that I don't have to.

Mitchy260

I am too young to remember the last government but from what i can see the labour government have screwed this country big time in the 11 years i do remember..

Iraq/Afghanistan
A free for all benefits system where many millions find it is better to sponge than to work
A housing market that prices young professionals out of the market even at the bottom of the ladder
A falling economy, northern rock, mortgage lending
The crime and punishment system
General cost of living - Fuel, bills, food etc
Immigration

Im sure if i thought long and hard, there would be pages of moans and gripes about this current farce for a government.

The UK is a sh*tehole and its only labour at fault for that.

Whether the tories or any other party can do any better is a whole other argument, but i cannot envisage matters getting any worse than they already are.

Im sure in the next election labour will be booted and rightfully so If the tories come in and sorted out the benefits system, they would be able to drop taxes substantially. We raised £158bn through income tax last year only to fork out £161bn, to the countries scroungers. Labour have allowed a free for all. It boils my blood

davegtt

I cannot envisage matters getting any better tbh

PaulC72

I have kept a copy of your willingness to bail these people out as I am sure it will come in handy when they ask me for some more money LOL.

For all those who overstretched themselves beyond resonable allowance lets hope things pick up as it is never nice to see people suffer, after all who except the few on SN could have predicited what was going to happen....

Snazy

You crack me up at times.

PeteBrant

Which the Tories supported fully.


I don't buy this at all - Where is the evidence?
Do you know how much you get on Jobseekers allowance? Or Single parent benefit?
Is there job out there for everyone? Does it poay enough to get people off benefits?

Of course, Labour bought in the minimum wage (which the Tories voted against) and tax credits in order to guarantee if you went out to work you would be better off



A housing market that means that properties have gone up in value substantially since Labour took over, the lowest sustain interest rates and inflation rates for 50 years. There is a flip side to every point.



In what way? given that the IMF predicts that we are better positioned than most to whether the global slowdown.

In what way was this the governments fault, and how should they have dealt with it?

I have my own thinking on where they went wrong with this, but I would be interested to hear yours
What about them?

Of course, but perhaps not quite enough - Given that they booted the Tories out on thier ***** in '97, and absolutely trounced them in every GE since.


The Tories were like Labour in the 80's - Utterly unelectable. They may have managed to turn that round - but you know how? By moving to the left and trying to drop the right wing image. - The same way Labour moved to the right and tried to drop the left wing image in the 90's
Its not even close to being a ****ehole.

Possibly. They need a bigger lead in the polls than they do at the moment to manage it though.

Typical old school Tory thinking - "I'm alright Jack".

Not everyone on benefits is scrounging. And if you think your taxes are going to drop under the Tories, you are in for a long wait.

Snazy

I don't buy this at all - Where is the evidence?
Do you know how much you get on Jobseekers allowance? Or Single parent benefit?
Is there job out there for everyone? Does it poay enough to get people off benefits?

Quite a few manage to stay on benefits, so its says something. If they are cheating the system, why are they not being caught out.


Of course, Labour bought in the minimum wage (which the Tories voted against) and tax credits in order to guarantee if you went out to work you would be better off

I beg to differ, my sister works and gets tax credits and would actually be better off out of work

A housing market that means that properties have gone up in value substantially since Labour took over, the lowest sustain interest rates and inflation rates for 50 years. There is a flip side to every point.

There is indeed a flip side, there has been a housing boom before, then it collapsed. Which goes to show massive growth is not always the best way

In what way? given that the IMF predicts that we are better positioned than most to whether the global slowdown.

Why are so many financial institutions panicking, and why did Flash have a meeting with Darling and the heads of the banks and lenders today?

In what way was this the governments fault, and how should they have dealt with it?

Flip that, in what way were/ are they responsible for the healthy growth either. Cant have it all their own way. Up its their doing, down, they wash their hands

Mitchy260

Pete... A ''single'' mum of 2 can expect to ''earn'' £22000 pa in benefits. (Housing, council tax, CTC, CB, Income support)

This is equivelant to a £30,000 salary. (Average UK working wage of £25,000)

Now are you suggesting she is not caught in the benefits trap? i.e...She is used to a £30,000 income and if she ever went out to work, she would more than likely get the minimum wage being unqualified and earning £11-12k pa

'Single' mums are often not single either and have partners living with them whilst surviving off all the free benefits + boyfriends wage making them better off than the average working family.

This is the UK benefits sytem. The more kids you pop, the more the taxpayer is penalised.

If you are physically able to work and choose not to, yes you are a scrounger. Mothers like Karen Matthews, 7 children, 5 different dads, are scoungers. They cannot support the children they have but choose to have more and we keep paying them more for each and every child.

The single mums who pretend to be single, yes they are scroungers too. The people who pretend to be incapacitated or disabled, yes they are scroungers too.

Scrounging Britain. Free for all. Well done Labour Should have just been a dosser at school is what they are putting out

The benefits sytem is a farce, i dont know how anyone can argue with that.

Lets open our gates to every scrounging european too and pay for their kids back home too. Nice one labour

Then the crime and punishment system.... i wont even go there. The government have the powers to dictate that life means life, carrying a knife is a mandatory 5 yr prison sentence etc etc. Even police officers will tell you its a complate farce. People that have hundreds of convictions, yet are still not in prison. The government to balme for this.

dpb

As far as i can gather there are a ludicrous number of hangers on ie 'incapacitated' claimants presently ..!


Its a strange term the 'value' of a house ( just about meaningless)

The prices of houses is artificially high

PeteBrant

Which would be brought up to £22,000 with tax credits.

And thats a defined wage - to spend how she sees fit - Not benefits, in which case some will go automatically to the housing association/council tax etc.

And why would she automatically be unqualified?

And assuming your figures are correct - what do you want to happen? Reduce singal parent benefit? Force the kids to wear recycled nappies? Make them drink happy shopper milk?


I love this sort of thing... "Often" - How on earth do you back that up? With anecdotal "My mates sister..."?



Get used to it because its not going to change - Well actually it is a bit , because the Labour government, from next year has introduced a new system where children over 12 no longer qualify for single parent allowance - that should cheer you up.


There is a thing called the common good - some people beleive in it, some don't (i'll take a wild stab which one you are )

Personally I pay my taxes and do so in the knowledge that the vast majority is genuinely needed by people not quite as lucky as me. Sure some will go to a cheating ****er - but you know what, it's such a piddling small amount that I don't worry about it.

But they are the exception, not the norm -And how do you know who is or isn't contributing to the upkeep of Matthews children?

And how many people does this account for? 25? 25 million?

You are concentrating on the headline figures withoiut actually looking to see what gets spent on what.

out of that 161 Million the majority goes on pensions (is that scorunging too?)
How much gets spent on disability benefit?
How much on Single parent benefit?
How much on Jobseekers allowance?

and so on.

Its no good lumping in £161billion and saying "****ing scroungers the lot of them"

Mitchy260

I see your points Pete, but do you think single mums update their circumstances knowing fine well when they do, half or the majority of their benefits are wiped out due to partners income.

Its easier pretending to be single and living off the benefits + the boyfriends wage.

Yes, it has been reported that karen matthews was doing exactly this as her paedophile boyfriend had a job but she claimed to have been single.

No, not all of the £161bn was reaped out to scroungers, but i bet a good proportion was.

Yes the government are finally getting something right, the 12yr old income support law is coming in this october. The scroungers however will get round this by popping out another 1 and having another 12yrs free worth of income support.

We are not going to agree on this 1 Pete, im sure SN's have their own views on the benefit sytem. I just personally think its a shambles and its the government at fault

PeteBrant

Just to isolate this point - How do you come to this conclusion? What leads you to think that a "good proportion" of people are on the cheat?

Genuine question.

Mitchy260

Of course i dont know the exact numbers, but the system is open to abuse and those that abuse it are not punished heavily enough. Im not just on about single mothers, its those who claim not to be fit for work through ill health etc. Those who are self employed and tax fiddle in order to make it look like they are on low incomes.


Even £1bn of this £161bn is a vast amount of money. Lets not forget how much £1bn actually is Pete.

You posted up a graph a few weeks back which showed where the £161bn was spent, you'll know better than me as to how much went into each form of benefit.

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

LOL! Nothing is like it used to be!

Ringpeas

I know families that live apart so they can claim to be single parents and get maximum benefits. The mothers will claim that they don't know the name of the father so that he is not chased for money, and they can claim it off the state.
Never mind the financial cost of this, what about the state of the family structure. What will their kids grow up like?

These people are clever enough to get the maximum out of the state, no mater the cost to anyone.

This IS the governments fault, they made the rules which people now take advantage of.

Child benefits should only be given for the first 2 children IMHO. If you have any more you should pay for them yourself. If this was brought in I believe you would see a sharp decline in the family size of these people.

Sadly, an uneducated 18 year old woman will get the best standard of living by going out and getting pregnant. That shows their is something very wrong with our society.

PeteBrant

Child Benefit gets given to evey parent in the country - I assume you are talking about income support for single parents.

In which case - Under your rules, what happens if they have 3 kids and the father does a bunk?

Or does it only apply to those that claim from the first child onwards?

AIf this is the case do you think there would be an increase in abortions when people fall pregnant with the third child?