Overtaking: are you mad?
24 April 2008, 07:57 PM
#182
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My final post on this subject because frankly I am getting bored.
The original poster came on here looking for sympathy. He'd clearly come up behind a queue of traffic and started to force his way to the front picking off cars one at a time. No problem with that in principal. However, the response he got from other drivers suggests there was more to it than most of you would like to believe. Loads of you are trying to paint a picture of a large queue of cars driven by doddering old fools travelling down a wide open road with plenty of space in between them. If this was the case you all know that the original poster would not have upset so many of them. What is far more likely is that the cars were quite tightly packed together - we all know this is what always happens - and he decided he didn't want to wait and began squeezing his car into the tiny gaps whenever the oncoming traffic gave him room to do so. You can try and discredit me all you like and quote various sections of the Highway Code that are loosely linked to the point you are trying to make but, whatever way you look at it this is ****e driving.
Frankly, I don't know why I even bothered to give a different opinion because I am preaching to people who congratulate others for winning traffic light drag races, breaking the speed limit and who are currently moaning on another thread about horses slowing their progress! Now you can try and twist my words by using extreme examples and portraying me as this moving roadblock whose sole objective is to make your lives a misery, but you're not winning the argument.
The problem you have is that unless there is a minimum speed limit in place there is no argument against driving under the speed limit. We all know that 45-50mph in a 60 limit is perfectly safe, but you all seem to think that everyone should adjust their driving to accomodate the speed of the fastest common denominator i.e. YOU!
Because this is a Subaru forum it is fair to say most of you drive a turbocharged Impreza of some description or something similar. This means you have a car whose abilities far exceed those of the driver and whose performance is far in excess of what you can actually use on the public road. So when faced with a queue of slowER moving trafic you get a sensation similar to that felt when you pull off the motorway after a long journey. Everything seems to be moving slower than it actually is because your sense of speed has been distorted by prolonged exposure to high cruise speeds or in this case a car that is operating so far inside its performance envelope that it makes you feel like you're standing still. You never stop to consider how the drivers of regular cars might be feeling. All you're interested in doing is getting past them as quickly as possible. And let's not pretend for one minute that once you are past the queue you're all going to adhere to the speed limit. The instant that road opens up you're going to be going hell for leather because you know best and the speed limits are just stupid.
Strangely this is not an attack on spirited driving or even breaking the speed limit. But what this thread has shown is that in most cases the stereotypical image of the 20-30something male driving a sports car is actually spot on. This is why you get stopped by the police for "no reason whatsoever", this is reason why your insurance is so high and this is the reason why the government will eventually put an end to fun driving on the public road. Your actions are killing the thing you love the most. But you'll never change because there will always be someone on Scoobynet who will give you a shoulder to cry on and reassure you that the fault is always someone else's and never your own.
Thank you and goodnight.
The original poster came on here looking for sympathy. He'd clearly come up behind a queue of traffic and started to force his way to the front picking off cars one at a time. No problem with that in principal. However, the response he got from other drivers suggests there was more to it than most of you would like to believe. Loads of you are trying to paint a picture of a large queue of cars driven by doddering old fools travelling down a wide open road with plenty of space in between them. If this was the case you all know that the original poster would not have upset so many of them. What is far more likely is that the cars were quite tightly packed together - we all know this is what always happens - and he decided he didn't want to wait and began squeezing his car into the tiny gaps whenever the oncoming traffic gave him room to do so. You can try and discredit me all you like and quote various sections of the Highway Code that are loosely linked to the point you are trying to make but, whatever way you look at it this is ****e driving.
Frankly, I don't know why I even bothered to give a different opinion because I am preaching to people who congratulate others for winning traffic light drag races, breaking the speed limit and who are currently moaning on another thread about horses slowing their progress! Now you can try and twist my words by using extreme examples and portraying me as this moving roadblock whose sole objective is to make your lives a misery, but you're not winning the argument.
The problem you have is that unless there is a minimum speed limit in place there is no argument against driving under the speed limit. We all know that 45-50mph in a 60 limit is perfectly safe, but you all seem to think that everyone should adjust their driving to accomodate the speed of the fastest common denominator i.e. YOU!
Because this is a Subaru forum it is fair to say most of you drive a turbocharged Impreza of some description or something similar. This means you have a car whose abilities far exceed those of the driver and whose performance is far in excess of what you can actually use on the public road. So when faced with a queue of slowER moving trafic you get a sensation similar to that felt when you pull off the motorway after a long journey. Everything seems to be moving slower than it actually is because your sense of speed has been distorted by prolonged exposure to high cruise speeds or in this case a car that is operating so far inside its performance envelope that it makes you feel like you're standing still. You never stop to consider how the drivers of regular cars might be feeling. All you're interested in doing is getting past them as quickly as possible. And let's not pretend for one minute that once you are past the queue you're all going to adhere to the speed limit. The instant that road opens up you're going to be going hell for leather because you know best and the speed limits are just stupid.
Strangely this is not an attack on spirited driving or even breaking the speed limit. But what this thread has shown is that in most cases the stereotypical image of the 20-30something male driving a sports car is actually spot on. This is why you get stopped by the police for "no reason whatsoever", this is reason why your insurance is so high and this is the reason why the government will eventually put an end to fun driving on the public road. Your actions are killing the thing you love the most. But you'll never change because there will always be someone on Scoobynet who will give you a shoulder to cry on and reassure you that the fault is always someone else's and never your own.
Thank you and goodnight.
24 April 2008, 08:24 PM
#185
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60 on a 60... spot on... I came across a guy, doing just below 30 in a 30 mph road... and then continued on 30 after reaching a 60 mph single carriageway....
followed him for about 10 seconds.... and then i lost patience lol... revved a bit behind him, bt he didnt seem to pick up what i was tryiing to tell him...
gear 3, did a few bends, then saw a straight road, engaged 2, then sodded him off....
nothing wrong in overtaking.... i do it even in 30mph zones... u just have to wait for the right time and make sure nobody's waiting on a side road...
followed him for about 10 seconds.... and then i lost patience lol... revved a bit behind him, bt he didnt seem to pick up what i was tryiing to tell him...
gear 3, did a few bends, then saw a straight road, engaged 2, then sodded him off....
nothing wrong in overtaking.... i do it even in 30mph zones... u just have to wait for the right time and make sure nobody's waiting on a side road...
24 April 2008, 09:37 PM
#186
Not surprised at the speeds you drive 
Why does it suggest that? Unfortunately there are a large number of drivers around who think any kind of overtaking is (or should be a) a capital crime. You ought to try the odd overtake sometime then you might experience it yourself
24 April 2008, 09:56 PM
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A 60 limit is a 60 LIMIT, not a target.
It means you do not go faster than 60 ergo it is perfectly OK to go less than 60.
C'mon chaps - it's not rocket science.
24 April 2008, 10:00 PM
#188
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nothing wrong in overtaking.... i do it even in 30mph zones... u just have to wait for the right time and make sure nobody's waiting on a side road...
You'll be a statistic sooner than you think. Trouble is, so will some poor innocent 3rd party, thanks to you
You'll be a statistic sooner than you think. Trouble is, so will some poor innocent 3rd party, thanks to you
24 April 2008, 10:55 PM
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Blueblaster, You're the most boring person I've ever heard, can you please go on the civic site and bore them sensless.
Keep this site for scooby drivers or future scooby drivers.
Thanks.
Keep this site for scooby drivers or future scooby drivers.
Thanks.
24 April 2008, 11:02 PM
#190
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have i read correctly or do people say they overtake in a 30 zone??
how fast(slow) must the other cars be doing to manage that do u mean u exceed the spead limit??
30 is there for a reason, usually due to areas with lots of people and especially kids
i never go over 20 around the estates where i live as there are a lot of kids around although there are loads of chavs in saxo 1.1's that drive like tw*ts doing at least 40 in the 3 zone
how fast(slow) must the other cars be doing to manage that do u mean u exceed the spead limit??
30 is there for a reason, usually due to areas with lots of people and especially kids
i never go over 20 around the estates where i live as there are a lot of kids around although there are loads of chavs in saxo 1.1's that drive like tw*ts doing at least 40 in the 3 zone
25 April 2008, 01:29 AM
#192
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Just because it's 30 doesn't mean it HAS to be some tiny road through an estate that has more kids running around it than a school playground.
Btw, theoretically a car can be doing 29mph and be legally overtaken in a 30 zone.
25 April 2008, 09:28 AM
#193
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My final post on this subject because frankly I am getting bored.
The original poster came on here looking for sympathy. He'd clearly come up behind a queue of traffic and started to force his way to the front picking off cars one at a time. No problem with that in principal. However, the response he got from other drivers suggests there was more to it than most of you would like to believe. Loads of you are trying to paint a picture of a large queue of cars driven by doddering old fools travelling down a wide open road with plenty of space in between them. If this was the case you all know that the original poster would not have upset so many of them. What is far more likely is that the cars were quite tightly packed together - we all know this is what always happens - and he decided he didn't want to wait and began squeezing his car into the tiny gaps whenever the oncoming traffic gave him room to do so. You can try and discredit me all you like and quote various sections of the Highway Code that are loosely linked to the point you are trying to make but, whatever way you look at it this is ****e driving.
Frankly, I don't know why I even bothered to give a different opinion because I am preaching to people who congratulate others for winning traffic light drag races, breaking the speed limit and who are currently moaning on another thread about horses slowing their progress! Now you can try and twist my words by using extreme examples and portraying me as this moving roadblock whose sole objective is to make your lives a misery, but you're not winning the argument.
The problem you have is that unless there is a minimum speed limit in place there is no argument against driving under the speed limit. We all know that 45-50mph in a 60 limit is perfectly safe, but you all seem to think that everyone should adjust their driving to accomodate the speed of the fastest common denominator i.e. YOU!
Because this is a Subaru forum it is fair to say most of you drive a turbocharged Impreza of some description or something similar. This means you have a car whose abilities far exceed those of the driver and whose performance is far in excess of what you can actually use on the public road. So when faced with a queue of slowER moving trafic you get a sensation similar to that felt when you pull off the motorway after a long journey. Everything seems to be moving slower than it actually is because your sense of speed has been distorted by prolonged exposure to high cruise speeds or in this case a car that is operating so far inside its performance envelope that it makes you feel like you're standing still. You never stop to consider how the drivers of regular cars might be feeling. All you're interested in doing is getting past them as quickly as possible. And let's not pretend for one minute that once you are past the queue you're all going to adhere to the speed limit. The instant that road opens up you're going to be going hell for leather because you know best and the speed limits are just stupid.
Strangely this is not an attack on spirited driving or even breaking the speed limit. But what this thread has shown is that in most cases the stereotypical image of the 20-30something male driving a sports car is actually spot on. This is why you get stopped by the police for "no reason whatsoever", this is reason why your insurance is so high and this is the reason why the government will eventually put an end to fun driving on the public road. Your actions are killing the thing you love the most. But you'll never change because there will always be someone on Scoobynet who will give you a shoulder to cry on and reassure you that the fault is always someone else's and never your own.
Thank you and goodnight.
The original poster came on here looking for sympathy. He'd clearly come up behind a queue of traffic and started to force his way to the front picking off cars one at a time. No problem with that in principal. However, the response he got from other drivers suggests there was more to it than most of you would like to believe. Loads of you are trying to paint a picture of a large queue of cars driven by doddering old fools travelling down a wide open road with plenty of space in between them. If this was the case you all know that the original poster would not have upset so many of them. What is far more likely is that the cars were quite tightly packed together - we all know this is what always happens - and he decided he didn't want to wait and began squeezing his car into the tiny gaps whenever the oncoming traffic gave him room to do so. You can try and discredit me all you like and quote various sections of the Highway Code that are loosely linked to the point you are trying to make but, whatever way you look at it this is ****e driving.
Frankly, I don't know why I even bothered to give a different opinion because I am preaching to people who congratulate others for winning traffic light drag races, breaking the speed limit and who are currently moaning on another thread about horses slowing their progress! Now you can try and twist my words by using extreme examples and portraying me as this moving roadblock whose sole objective is to make your lives a misery, but you're not winning the argument.
The problem you have is that unless there is a minimum speed limit in place there is no argument against driving under the speed limit. We all know that 45-50mph in a 60 limit is perfectly safe, but you all seem to think that everyone should adjust their driving to accomodate the speed of the fastest common denominator i.e. YOU!
Because this is a Subaru forum it is fair to say most of you drive a turbocharged Impreza of some description or something similar. This means you have a car whose abilities far exceed those of the driver and whose performance is far in excess of what you can actually use on the public road. So when faced with a queue of slowER moving trafic you get a sensation similar to that felt when you pull off the motorway after a long journey. Everything seems to be moving slower than it actually is because your sense of speed has been distorted by prolonged exposure to high cruise speeds or in this case a car that is operating so far inside its performance envelope that it makes you feel like you're standing still. You never stop to consider how the drivers of regular cars might be feeling. All you're interested in doing is getting past them as quickly as possible. And let's not pretend for one minute that once you are past the queue you're all going to adhere to the speed limit. The instant that road opens up you're going to be going hell for leather because you know best and the speed limits are just stupid.
Strangely this is not an attack on spirited driving or even breaking the speed limit. But what this thread has shown is that in most cases the stereotypical image of the 20-30something male driving a sports car is actually spot on. This is why you get stopped by the police for "no reason whatsoever", this is reason why your insurance is so high and this is the reason why the government will eventually put an end to fun driving on the public road. Your actions are killing the thing you love the most. But you'll never change because there will always be someone on Scoobynet who will give you a shoulder to cry on and reassure you that the fault is always someone else's and never your own.
Thank you and goodnight.
? All I wrote was "start picking them off when safe to do so". Not quite the same thing is it? Also why does he go on about turbocharged Imprezas adding to the negative reaction? My original post never mentioned that this phenomenon was car-specific? When I started out in 1987 I was driving a 40bhp Hillman Imp, but would still overtake when safe to do so and never had any incidents, as would the majority of other drivers in their everyday cars. Sure the power outputs of my cars have grown since then, but my everday car now is just a regular inconspicuous average saloon, but perfectly capable of pulling off a safe overtaking manoeuvre, without need for any adverse reaction from the slower driver.Anyway let this be an end to it. Fortunately most of you SNetters seem to pretty much agree with me and the one who clearly doesn't appears to live a long way from these shores, so hopefully I'll never have to overtake him.
Just to remind you all how this started, here's my original post again. Apologies to those of you who think this has gone on far too long, but let's hope it stops now!
"Just got to get this off my chest:
Why is it now deemed socially irresponsible by other road-users to overtake anyone on a single carriageway road? How many times have you come up to the back of a queue of traffic doddling along behind some slowcoach at 45mph on a 60mph road? No-one shows the slightest interest in overtaking him, they just follow like sheep.
This leaves you with 2 options:
1) trundle along behind the rest of them, or
2) start picking them off when safe to do so.
Heaven forbid you choose option 2): nowadays this represents the most evil crime since the World Trade Centre attacks. Your actions will be met by flashing lights, honking horns, swerving and blocking cars, hand gestures and god knows how many expletives.
Why is this? When I started driving 20 years ago, practically everyone knew how to overtake safely. OK, traffic is heavier these days, but you can bet your life that the road will be completely clear for at least 2 miles in front of the dawdlers, so there's still plenty of space left on the road for us all. You don't even need a fast car to overtake someone doing less than 60mph.
What do you lot think?"
25 April 2008, 12:25 PM
#196
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be honest, you were thinking exactly that, werent you?
25 April 2008, 01:00 PM
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I think the original post is fundamentally correct. This government has promoted the car (by continually linking it to global warming, death, and anything else generally unpleasant they can think of) as some kind of Domesday machine. Your average brainwashed sheep tends to think along these lines - Wrong side of road.........faster than me.........speeding......maniac.........did I set the video for Eastenders.......dead child........lock him up.
I'm certainly no Angel on the road and in my 'yoof' I was flashed plenty of times by other drivers when driving or riding and to be honest often enough they probably had a fair point. But then (this is not an excuse) the roads were much less crowded. I am certainly more considerate to other roadusers now and can't remember the last time anyone flashed me. I find it exhilarating sometimes to push the limits (bike or car) on the road and I do my best to avoid any impact on other road users. I apply the 'if my behaviour doesn't force others to brake or swerve then no problem' principle and if some people are irritated by that then tough luck. Note that I use the word 'force' and not 'cause' because the frankly timid behaviour of some people is their problem, not mine.
I have always felt it appropriate to have a car or bike that suits the purpose it is used for, and often find it difficult to understand why some people on a site for performance cars like this are so goody-goody self-righteous with their attitudes towards enthusiastic driving. I for one would get something more comfortable and economical if I could no longer slip'n'slide the car around anymore.
Although becoming more difficult, the petrol engine still provides on demand adrenaline if you make the right choices and I won't knock anyone for that. It's not the enthusiastic drivers the sheep need to worry about but the rest of their fluffy friends thinking about Eastenders.
And to finish, am I right in thinking Blueblaster's idea of throwing caution to the wind is putting full fat milk on his cornflakes in the morning?
Kevin
I'm certainly no Angel on the road and in my 'yoof' I was flashed plenty of times by other drivers when driving or riding and to be honest often enough they probably had a fair point. But then (this is not an excuse) the roads were much less crowded. I am certainly more considerate to other roadusers now and can't remember the last time anyone flashed me. I find it exhilarating sometimes to push the limits (bike or car) on the road and I do my best to avoid any impact on other road users. I apply the 'if my behaviour doesn't force others to brake or swerve then no problem' principle and if some people are irritated by that then tough luck. Note that I use the word 'force' and not 'cause' because the frankly timid behaviour of some people is their problem, not mine.
I have always felt it appropriate to have a car or bike that suits the purpose it is used for, and often find it difficult to understand why some people on a site for performance cars like this are so goody-goody self-righteous with their attitudes towards enthusiastic driving. I for one would get something more comfortable and economical if I could no longer slip'n'slide the car around anymore.
Although becoming more difficult, the petrol engine still provides on demand adrenaline if you make the right choices and I won't knock anyone for that. It's not the enthusiastic drivers the sheep need to worry about but the rest of their fluffy friends thinking about Eastenders.
And to finish, am I right in thinking Blueblaster's idea of throwing caution to the wind is putting full fat milk on his cornflakes in the morning?
Kevin
25 April 2008, 01:02 PM
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I think the original post is fundamentally correct. This government has promoted the car (by continually linking it to global warming, death, and anything else generally unpleasant they can think of) as some kind of Domesday machine. Your average brainwashed sheep tends to think along these lines - Wrong side of road.........faster than me.........speeding......maniac.........did I set the video for Eastenders.......dead child........lock him up.
I'm certainly no Angel on the road and in my 'yoof' I was flashed plenty of times by other drivers when driving or riding and to be honest often enough they probably had a fair point. But then (this is not an excuse) the roads were much less crowded. I am certainly more considerate to other roadusers now and can't remember the last time anyone flashed me. I find it exhilarating sometimes to push the limits (bike or car) on the road and I do my best to avoid any impact on other road users. I apply the 'if my behaviour doesn't force others to brake or swerve then no problem' principle and if some people are irritated by that then tough luck. Note that I use the word 'force' and not 'cause' because the frankly timid behaviour of some people is their problem, not mine.
I have always felt it appropriate to have a car or bike that suits the purpose it is used for, and often find it difficult to understand why some people on a site for performance cars like this are so goody-goody self-righteous with their attitudes towards enthusiastic driving. I for one would get something more comfortable and economical if I could no longer slip'n'slide the car around anymore.
Although becoming more difficult, the petrol engine still provides on demand adrenaline if you make the right choices and I won't knock anyone for that. It's not the enthusiastic drivers the sheep need to worry about but the rest of their fluffy friends thinking about Eastenders.
And to finish, am I right in thinking Blueblaster's idea of throwing caution to the wind is putting full fat milk on his cornflakes in the morning?
Kevin
I'm certainly no Angel on the road and in my 'yoof' I was flashed plenty of times by other drivers when driving or riding and to be honest often enough they probably had a fair point. But then (this is not an excuse) the roads were much less crowded. I am certainly more considerate to other roadusers now and can't remember the last time anyone flashed me. I find it exhilarating sometimes to push the limits (bike or car) on the road and I do my best to avoid any impact on other road users. I apply the 'if my behaviour doesn't force others to brake or swerve then no problem' principle and if some people are irritated by that then tough luck. Note that I use the word 'force' and not 'cause' because the frankly timid behaviour of some people is their problem, not mine.
I have always felt it appropriate to have a car or bike that suits the purpose it is used for, and often find it difficult to understand why some people on a site for performance cars like this are so goody-goody self-righteous with their attitudes towards enthusiastic driving. I for one would get something more comfortable and economical if I could no longer slip'n'slide the car around anymore.
Although becoming more difficult, the petrol engine still provides on demand adrenaline if you make the right choices and I won't knock anyone for that. It's not the enthusiastic drivers the sheep need to worry about but the rest of their fluffy friends thinking about Eastenders.
And to finish, am I right in thinking Blueblaster's idea of throwing caution to the wind is putting full fat milk on his cornflakes in the morning?
Kevin
25 April 2008, 01:41 PM
#200
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I am torn between thinking it is good to have you on this site as you put forward a different opinion to most, and whether all you are doing is generating unnecessary arguments and raising everyones blood pressure, including your own.
I think you can give valuable input and if you were a little less antagonistic then more people would take notice of what you write. However, after seeing your posts on a number of threads I can't get past the impression that you are basically opposed to the fundamental reason most people come on this forum, which is because they enjoy driving their Subaru and would like to gain from the shared experience of others who do so.
For the same reason I'm not a big contributor to the crown green bowling forum, maybe this isn't the right site for you to be spending so much of your time.
25 April 2008, 02:09 PM
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Nearly had a crash
i just nearly had a crash, come onto to duel carrage way, land rover with caravan infrount go to over take and he comes out, slam my brakes and then he swaves back to the other line, what a blank!! He was trying to overtake a van, I dont even think its legal to go in the fast lane with a caravan.
But brakes worked well.
But brakes worked well.
25 April 2008, 03:38 PM
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Just my 2 pennies worth, Sorry if this is a bit of a repeat but I cannot be bothered to read through all 21 pages of posts. Having just come back from a course. On the issue of speed limits, I have recently done my Class C test, and passed. We were told if you don`t nail the speed limits 30 in 30 zones. 40 on single carriageway, 50 on dual carriageway and 60 on a motorway. Ie when you pass the sign you accelerate briskly up to the required speed, they will mark you down for hesitancy and holding up the traffic and fail you. And on the subject of overtaking police cars when there stuck behind something, not problem done it myself a few times, after making sure they are not interested in overtaking, indicate, pull out when safe to do so, nail it overtake slow moving vehicles back into lane and gently apply brakes to bring back down to speed limit. Never been stopped yet. And blue if you have to hit the brakes when you get overtaken, you are obviously to close to the car in front, as a simple lift should suffice, with your foot covering the brake if neccesary.
25 April 2008, 03:49 PM
#205
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25 April 2008, 04:04 PM
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You seem to get idiots worldwide!
Not just on my daily journey to work.
I shall continue to overtake safely and no Honda diesel driver will persuade me that i am a dangerous driver for doing so.
Oh and by the way some cracking replies. Had me laughing!
Not just on my daily journey to work.
I shall continue to overtake safely and no Honda diesel driver will persuade me that i am a dangerous driver for doing so.
Oh and by the way some cracking replies. Had me laughing!
25 April 2008, 04:25 PM
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As a rule I agree with you. However, if I'm in a queue of traffic and someone overtakes me and slots into a gap a left between me and and car in front and subsequently forces me to brake then I would happily see that driver lose his/her licence. And by brake I mean brake at all. If you are going to overtake then other road users should have to make no adjustment whatsoever as a result of your actions.
"Rule 168 from the Highway Code
Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you."
25 April 2008, 05:15 PM
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Can't be arsed to read this all either but Blueblaster seems to talk some sense from what I've seen. It's a PITA when someone barges in front of you in a queue, particularly if you were looking to overtake the slow leader of the queue yourself but now cannot. Pretty dangerous to overtake several cars when someone ahead may also move out (yes, I know they would be to blame in principle but I bet you'd have a fight on your hands with the insurers). Also very annoying when you're doing the limit down a straight and someone overtakes you at limit+10, then slows to limit-20 for the twisties when you would stick to the limit throughout (Snake Pass a good example of this). Got to agree it's quite rare that (safe) overtaking will get you to your destination significantly sooner these days anyway, another slower car/lorry will be always be half a mile up the road. I guess a problem with learners having to do the limit during their tests is that they're not taught to pull over to let others by.
25 April 2008, 06:21 PM
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I overtook a van today, in a tunnel 
with no cars coming the other way. Whitevanman flashed & gesticulated as I passed then once he caught me up (traffic) started giving me various signs including the Kenco coffee bean one 
Amazing why they get so worked up 
TX.
with no cars coming the other way. Whitevanman flashed & gesticulated as I passed then once he caught me up (traffic) started giving me various signs including the Kenco coffee bean one Amazing why they get so worked up TX.