GC8WRX

NO its not, my mate lost his job two years ago, and started claiming benefits.

He has a bigger house,nicer kitchen, more money to spend and a lot less worries than me, and i work hard!

Explain that?

The Zohan

Cheeky!

Maybe i am more receptive to a change and to new policies and a fresh start, education, education, education and a party who wil be tough on crime and the causes of crime.

What a gulible pillock i was, should have seen it coming!

Actually i can hear the tune now D-Reams things can only get better - now transpose the words i...was a stupid ****-er...for voting in nu-labou-r...yes i was a foooooool (and repeat)

Martin2005

Ah yes I remember that day, hope, expectation and a shiny new Prime Minister.

A lot that happened since has been good, but against those expectation then it all looks like a bit of a disappointment.

We needed a change then as we need a change now, I think the trick is not too expect too much, if/when the Tories get in.

I'm still a HUGE Blair fan though (I know that opens me up to all kinds of ridicule on here), if you like politics, then Blair was/is the master politician. You may not of liked him but he was absolutely brilliant in some aspects, and really not very good at all in other (I know).

Snazy

I wonder if todays 18% lead is enough to satisfy some lol

Nido

The Lib Dems were only half a dozen points or so away from Labour!

Snazy

However im sure todays figures wont count. To some

Gordo

Labour have lied about everything IMO - record levels of employment? my **** - record levels of claimants on disability etc - i.e. the number of people not working hasn't really changed.

my worry is that the Tories get back in just as the country hits recession, and the dimwit voters will blame them for the unemployment that results, having praised the profligate spending under New Labour during the good times.

time all governments were held to account verus their manifesto promises, and not allowed to massage figures / spin by making all data consistently audited and published on a monthly basis by an independent body.

Gordo

PeteBrant

What do you think happens everytime we have a general election?

Gordo

People forget the promises made last time round.

have a glance at the index from the last one and prepare to sigh....

Economy - rising prosperity in an opportunity society - not for much longer

Education - more children making the grade. Really?

Crime and security - safe communities, secure borders (!!!!)

Our NHS - free to all, personal to each (lots of investment for no noticeable improvement)

Older people - secure today, prepared for the future (that'd be the daily stories about pensioners living in poverty, would it?)

Families - choice and support at work and at home (not sure what this means - choice in what?)

"We will not raise the basic or top rates of income tax in the next
Parliament." - other than immediately increasing NI by 1% with no limit

Pathetic - but the dopey general public doesn't care as long as property has gone up in value.

Gordo

unclebuck

Ah - the cult of Blair. Now it all makes sense. Such fanatacism, such devotion. In common with that of the religious, it always renders it's devotees blind to the truth about their idols.

Trying to employ reason with such people is a complete waste of time.

unclebuck

And when it starts to go down in value...??

Martin2005

Have I not shown anything but reason on this thread?

As for the cult of Blair, I think you are deliberately misinterpreting what I was saying

Martin2005

Well we do have record levels of employment don't we. Who has disputed that fact?

What you really mean here I don't like the Labour Party, why not just say that, rather gives us all the politically biased rhetoric.

When the Tories are in office (and i wish them good luck, genuinely) they will be faced with all the same problems and challenges as the current government. I pressume you're likely to cut them more slack? I really looking forward to 180 degree change in peoples views on this site.

Gordo

I'm very firmly disuputing the fact - it's well documented that they have merely shifted 'unemployed' to 'disability benefit' when making their claims. You, of course, can ignore this link as it's clearly a Tory newspaper and therefore can't be true.

Welfare Tax and Unemployment – New Labour’s Statistical Smoke and Mirrors : April 2008 : Peter Barnett : My Telegraph

Martin2005

[quote=Gordo;7831950][quote=Martin2005;7831933]Well we do have record levels of employment don't we. Who has disputed that fact? No you see you're getting EMPLOYMENT levels confused with UNEMPLOYMENT levels.

You clearly stated on your original post that the employment figures were wrong.

As for the official unemployment stats I agree with you the figures are massaged and always have been the conservatives were past masters at it

Gordo

sorry - I was lazy with my language - I meant record levels of unemployment.

I am keen to remove the ability for any party to lie or manipulate the data - hence my statement about consistently prepared data published every month by an independent body.

unclebuck

Your version of what you call 'reason' yes. No different to an Islamist's version of reason based on their particular doctrine. It's completely alien to me - and most clear thinking people in this country as well I suspect.

Oh - I don't think so... I reckon I'm bang on the money.

Martin2005

Why dont you try reading what I have written, my points all along has been about people letting their ideology get in the way of balance and independent thinking

unclebuck

I did:

I'm still a HUGE Blair fan


That good enough for me to dismiss the rest.....

Martin2005

Well you make my point for me then,

I'd also say that i many respects I'm big fan of Thatcher and Clinton, I suppose you have a problem with that too?

finalzero

Does it matter who gets into power? Seems there is an alternative agenda on the table and it doesn't include the general populace.

It's obvious we are moving into a police state whether we like it or not (or if it's justifiable or not). I think in a few years time we will be in a far worse state than we are now and we will look back and wonder what went wrong.

People seem to just take whatever crap is thrown at us and I think that's part of the problem but also because decisions are made that do not include the public or aimed at the benefit of the general public.

I will not be surprised when the next goverment that goes into power suddenly implements all the things that we protested against including compulsory ID cards that will dictate our lifes in digital precision.

warrenm2

UKIP has just launched their law and order policy paper today, and have their first MP this week in Bob Spink. Hopefully a party on the up. Some common sense stuff I reckon...

http://www.ukip.org/ukip/images/stor.../law_final.pdf

lozgti

I have to say,the way labour has gone about its tax policies they have really shot themselves in the foot.

On the car front,perhaps every three years we would spend £40,000 on two new cars.Because of the new taxes,we won't be changing them for the forseeable future.If only 100 people think like us,that is £4,000,000. that won't be spent and the government won't get tax from.A thousand people think like us and that is Forty million.

I think they will send the second hand market into freefall too.

I think it is far more complicated than what they think.No,we won't be buying a 1.2 bubble car and no,we won't be buying a diesel whatever your policies.

Eejuts

PeteBrant

Tory lead over Labour hits 21-year high - Telegraph


Tories lead hits 18 points according to the Telegraph.

Guardian says 6 points.

If you take the truth as being somewhere in the middle, then a 10-12 point lead is pretty healthy - But these thing have a habit of changing. The Tories spent most of their time in power behind in the opinion polls - Except when it mattered.

PeteBrant

A Party completely irrelevant to British politics. They never have, and never will amount to anything. Which is a good thing, since are, as David Cameron said "A bunch of Loonies, Fruitcakes, and closet racists"

lozgti

Well who do you vote for at times like this? It was a clear divide once.Not now.

Maybe the fruitcakes will be appealing to an awful lot of people sick of current politics/policies.

(as an aside,surely GB will go down as the worst PM ever.The man appears to be wholly useless)

warrenm2

nice balanced view there as usual PB - I could almost hear the sneer in your tone. Did you even read the link? True they're a small party, but in the last Euro elections came fourth with 18% of vote. Not so irrelavent as you think, and as I said, on the up, not declining like the support for the "big 3". UK politics looks like it will become more fragmented and they will be winners IMHO. None of the Big 3 really distinguish themselves, they all try and capture the same vote and hence all end up with similar policies

PeteBrant

Well quite - It would be nice to have as clear a divide as the Americans enjoy between the republicans and democrats.


I do think there would have to be something fundamentally wrong with you to vote for UKIP though


I mean reading thier manifesto, it isn;t very consistant. "We will double prison places in 10 years".. Great..How? On the very next page "We oppose titan prisons"

Brilliant.

"We will withdraw from the EU human rights charter" "We will reintroduce corporal punishment in schools.

and then

"We oppose the ID card scheme because it is an infringement of liberty!!!"

I reckon my 13 year old could come up with a more coherant and consistant policy document.

PeteBrant

Course I read the link

They're a bunch of ****ing little Englander arseholes as far as I can see.
They will have the odd moment of fame, like the BNP, but ultimately will have no effect on the British political landscape whatsoever.

warrenm2

why is opposing large prisons but wanting to double places inconsistent - they say they will use prison ships and build more normal size prisons. If you can't understand that then the problem is you, not their policy!