Is the Labour Era over?
#121
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'im not paying a fiver to drive on the ring road to the trafford centre, ******* pi55takes'
Well you've answered your own point there, and if it's a congestion charge and you will avoid driving into the 'zone' then it means it works! The problem is that they don't work and I agree with you they become a 'nice little earner' for the local authority. I think that public transport needs to be the beneficiary of all congestion charge revenue, at least then it looks like a 'joined-up policy'.
As for the giving up and living on benefits, I'm pretty sure that you're too proud and consciencious to do something like that. Besides that really is a Daily Mail headline, steriotypical misconception of reality of the benefits system.
Well you've answered your own point there, and if it's a congestion charge and you will avoid driving into the 'zone' then it means it works! The problem is that they don't work and I agree with you they become a 'nice little earner' for the local authority. I think that public transport needs to be the beneficiary of all congestion charge revenue, at least then it looks like a 'joined-up policy'.
As for the giving up and living on benefits, I'm pretty sure that you're too proud and consciencious to do something like that. Besides that really is a Daily Mail headline, steriotypical misconception of reality of the benefits system.
He has a bigger house,nicer kitchen, more money to spend and a lot less worries than me, and i work hard!
Explain that?
#122
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Maybe i am more receptive to a change and to new policies and a fresh start, education, education, education and a party who wil be tough on crime and the causes of crime.
What a gulible pillock i was, should have seen it coming!
Actually i can hear the tune now D-Reams things can only get better - now transpose the words i...was a stupid ****-er...for voting in nu-labou-r...yes i was a foooooool (and repeat)
Last edited by The Zohan; 24 April 2008 at 06:23 PM.
#123
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Cheeky!
Maybe i am more receptive to a change and to new policies and a fresh start, education, education, education and a party who wil be tough on crime and the causes of crime.
What a gulible pillock i was, should have seen it coming!
Actually i can hear the tune now D-Reams things can only get better - now transpose the words i...was a stupid ******...for voting in nu-labour...yes i was a foooooool (and repeat)
Maybe i am more receptive to a change and to new policies and a fresh start, education, education, education and a party who wil be tough on crime and the causes of crime.
What a gulible pillock i was, should have seen it coming!
Actually i can hear the tune now D-Reams things can only get better - now transpose the words i...was a stupid ******...for voting in nu-labour...yes i was a foooooool (and repeat)
A lot that happened since has been good, but against those expectation then it all looks like a bit of a disappointment.
We needed a change then as we need a change now, I think the trick is not too expect too much, if/when the Tories get in.
I'm still a HUGE Blair fan though (I know that opens me up to all kinds of ridicule on here), if you like politics, then Blair was/is the master politician. You may not of liked him but he was absolutely brilliant in some aspects, and really not very good at all in other (I know).
#127
Labour have lied about everything IMO - record levels of employment? my **** - record levels of claimants on disability etc - i.e. the number of people not working hasn't really changed.
my worry is that the Tories get back in just as the country hits recession, and the dimwit voters will blame them for the unemployment that results, having praised the profligate spending under New Labour during the good times.
time all governments were held to account verus their manifesto promises, and not allowed to massage figures / spin by making all data consistently audited and published on a monthly basis by an independent body.
Gordo
my worry is that the Tories get back in just as the country hits recession, and the dimwit voters will blame them for the unemployment that results, having praised the profligate spending under New Labour during the good times.
time all governments were held to account verus their manifesto promises, and not allowed to massage figures / spin by making all data consistently audited and published on a monthly basis by an independent body.
Gordo
#128
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#129
People forget the promises made last time round.
have a glance at the index from the last one and prepare to sigh....
Economy - rising prosperity in an opportunity society - not for much longer
Education - more children making the grade. Really?
Crime and security - safe communities, secure borders (!!!!)
Our NHS - free to all, personal to each (lots of investment for no noticeable improvement)
Older people - secure today, prepared for the future (that'd be the daily stories about pensioners living in poverty, would it?)
Families - choice and support at work and at home (not sure what this means - choice in what?)
"We will not raise the basic or top rates of income tax in the next
Parliament." - other than immediately increasing NI by 1% with no limit
Pathetic - but the dopey general public doesn't care as long as property has gone up in value.
Gordo
have a glance at the index from the last one and prepare to sigh....
Economy - rising prosperity in an opportunity society - not for much longer
Education - more children making the grade. Really?
Crime and security - safe communities, secure borders (!!!!)
Our NHS - free to all, personal to each (lots of investment for no noticeable improvement)
Older people - secure today, prepared for the future (that'd be the daily stories about pensioners living in poverty, would it?)
Families - choice and support at work and at home (not sure what this means - choice in what?)
"We will not raise the basic or top rates of income tax in the next
Parliament." - other than immediately increasing NI by 1% with no limit
Pathetic - but the dopey general public doesn't care as long as property has gone up in value.
Gordo
Last edited by Gordo; 24 April 2008 at 09:29 PM.
#130
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I'm still a HUGE Blair fan though (I know that opens me up to all kinds of ridicule on here), if you like politics, then Blair was/is the master politician. You may not of liked him but he was absolutely brilliant in some aspects, and really not very good at all in other (I know).
Trying to employ reason with such people is a complete waste of time.
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#132
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Have I not shown anything but reason on this thread?
As for the cult of Blair, I think you are deliberately misinterpreting what I was saying
#133
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Labour have lied about everything IMO - record levels of employment? my **** - record levels of claimants on disability etc - i.e. the number of people not working hasn't really changed.
my worry is that the Tories get back in just as the country hits recession, and the dimwit voters will blame them for the unemployment that results, having praised the profligate spending under New Labour during the good times.
time all governments were held to account verus their manifesto promises, and not allowed to massage figures / spin by making all data consistently audited and published on a monthly basis by an independent body.
Gordo
my worry is that the Tories get back in just as the country hits recession, and the dimwit voters will blame them for the unemployment that results, having praised the profligate spending under New Labour during the good times.
time all governments were held to account verus their manifesto promises, and not allowed to massage figures / spin by making all data consistently audited and published on a monthly basis by an independent body.
Gordo
What you really mean here I don't like the Labour Party, why not just say that, rather gives us all the politically biased rhetoric.
When the Tories are in office (and i wish them good luck, genuinely) they will be faced with all the same problems and challenges as the current government. I pressume you're likely to cut them more slack? I really looking forward to 180 degree change in peoples views on this site.
#134
Welfare Tax and Unemployment – New Labour’s Statistical Smoke and Mirrors : April 2008 : Peter Barnett : My Telegraph
Last edited by Gordo; 24 April 2008 at 09:59 PM.
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[quote=Gordo;7831950][quote=Martin2005;7831933]Well we do have record levels of employment don't we. Who has disputed that fact?
I'm very firmly disuputing the fact - it's well documented that they have merely shifted 'unemployed' to 'disability benefit' when making their claims. You, of course, can ignore this link as it's clearly a Tory newspaper and therefore can't be true.
[url]http://my.telegraph.co.uk/peter_barnett/april_2008/incapacity_tax_new_labour_s_statistical_smoke_.htm[url]
No you see you're getting EMPLOYMENT levels confused with UNEMPLOYMENT levels.
You clearly stated on your original post that the employment figures were wrong.
As for the official unemployment stats I agree with you the figures are massaged and always have been the conservatives were past masters at it
I'm very firmly disuputing the fact - it's well documented that they have merely shifted 'unemployed' to 'disability benefit' when making their claims. You, of course, can ignore this link as it's clearly a Tory newspaper and therefore can't be true.
[url]http://my.telegraph.co.uk/peter_barnett/april_2008/incapacity_tax_new_labour_s_statistical_smoke_.htm[url]
You clearly stated on your original post that the employment figures were wrong.
As for the official unemployment stats I agree with you the figures are massaged and always have been the conservatives were past masters at it
#136
sorry - I was lazy with my language - I meant record levels of unemployment.
I am keen to remove the ability for any party to lie or manipulate the data - hence my statement about consistently prepared data published every month by an independent body.
I am keen to remove the ability for any party to lie or manipulate the data - hence my statement about consistently prepared data published every month by an independent body.
#137
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Your version of what you call 'reason' yes. No different to an Islamist's version of reason based on their particular doctrine. It's completely alien to me - and most clear thinking people in this country as well I suspect.
Oh - I don't think so... I reckon I'm bang on the money.
As for the cult of Blair, I think you are deliberately misinterpreting what I was saying
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Your version of what you call 'reason' yes. No different to an Islamist's version of reason based on their particular doctrine. It's completely alien to me - and most clear thinking people in this country as well I suspect.
Oh - I don't think so... I reckon I'm bang on the money.
Oh - I don't think so... I reckon I'm bang on the money.
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Well you make my point for me then,
I'd also say that i many respects I'm big fan of Thatcher and Clinton, I suppose you have a problem with that too?
Last edited by Martin2005; 24 April 2008 at 11:13 PM.
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Does it matter who gets into power? Seems there is an alternative agenda on the table and it doesn't include the general populace.
It's obvious we are moving into a police state whether we like it or not (or if it's justifiable or not). I think in a few years time we will be in a far worse state than we are now and we will look back and wonder what went wrong.
People seem to just take whatever crap is thrown at us and I think that's part of the problem but also because decisions are made that do not include the public or aimed at the benefit of the general public.
I will not be surprised when the next goverment that goes into power suddenly implements all the things that we protested against including compulsory ID cards that will dictate our lifes in digital precision.
It's obvious we are moving into a police state whether we like it or not (or if it's justifiable or not). I think in a few years time we will be in a far worse state than we are now and we will look back and wonder what went wrong.
People seem to just take whatever crap is thrown at us and I think that's part of the problem but also because decisions are made that do not include the public or aimed at the benefit of the general public.
I will not be surprised when the next goverment that goes into power suddenly implements all the things that we protested against including compulsory ID cards that will dictate our lifes in digital precision.
#142
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UKIP has just launched their law and order policy paper today, and have their first MP this week in Bob Spink. Hopefully a party on the up. Some common sense stuff I reckon...
http://www.ukip.org/ukip/images/stor.../law_final.pdf
http://www.ukip.org/ukip/images/stor.../law_final.pdf
#143
I have to say,the way labour has gone about its tax policies they have really shot themselves in the foot.
On the car front,perhaps every three years we would spend £40,000 on two new cars.Because of the new taxes,we won't be changing them for the forseeable future.If only 100 people think like us,that is £4,000,000. that won't be spent and the government won't get tax from.A thousand people think like us and that is Forty million.
I think they will send the second hand market into freefall too.
I think it is far more complicated than what they think.No,we won't be buying a 1.2 bubble car and no,we won't be buying a diesel whatever your policies.
Eejuts
On the car front,perhaps every three years we would spend £40,000 on two new cars.Because of the new taxes,we won't be changing them for the forseeable future.If only 100 people think like us,that is £4,000,000. that won't be spent and the government won't get tax from.A thousand people think like us and that is Forty million.
I think they will send the second hand market into freefall too.
I think it is far more complicated than what they think.No,we won't be buying a 1.2 bubble car and no,we won't be buying a diesel whatever your policies.
Eejuts
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Tory lead over Labour hits 21-year high - Telegraph
Tories lead hits 18 points according to the Telegraph.
Guardian says 6 points.
If you take the truth as being somewhere in the middle, then a 10-12 point lead is pretty healthy - But these thing have a habit of changing. The Tories spent most of their time in power behind in the opinion polls - Except when it mattered.
Tories lead hits 18 points according to the Telegraph.
Guardian says 6 points.
If you take the truth as being somewhere in the middle, then a 10-12 point lead is pretty healthy - But these thing have a habit of changing. The Tories spent most of their time in power behind in the opinion polls - Except when it mattered.
#145
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UKIP has just launched their law and order policy paper today, and have their first MP this week in Bob Spink. Hopefully a party on the up. Some common sense stuff I reckon...
http://www.ukip.org/ukip/images/stor.../law_final.pdf
http://www.ukip.org/ukip/images/stor.../law_final.pdf
#146
Well who do you vote for at times like this? It was a clear divide once.Not now.
Maybe the fruitcakes will be appealing to an awful lot of people sick of current politics/policies.
(as an aside,surely GB will go down as the worst PM ever.The man appears to be wholly useless)
Maybe the fruitcakes will be appealing to an awful lot of people sick of current politics/policies.
(as an aside,surely GB will go down as the worst PM ever.The man appears to be wholly useless)
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nice balanced view there as usual PB - I could almost hear the sneer in your tone. Did you even read the link? True they're a small party, but in the last Euro elections came fourth with 18% of vote. Not so irrelavent as you think, and as I said, on the up, not declining like the support for the "big 3". UK politics looks like it will become more fragmented and they will be winners IMHO. None of the Big 3 really distinguish themselves, they all try and capture the same vote and hence all end up with similar policies
#148
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Well quite - It would be nice to have as clear a divide as the Americans enjoy between the republicans and democrats.
I do think there would have to be something fundamentally wrong with you to vote for UKIP though
I mean reading thier manifesto, it isn;t very consistant. "We will double prison places in 10 years".. Great..How? On the very next page "We oppose titan prisons"
Brilliant.
"We will withdraw from the EU human rights charter" "We will reintroduce corporal punishment in schools.
and then
"We oppose the ID card scheme because it is an infringement of liberty!!!"
I reckon my 13 year old could come up with a more coherant and consistant policy document.
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nice balanced view there as usual PB - I could almost hear the sneer in your tone. Did you even read the link? True they're a small party, but in the last Euro elections came fourth with 18% of vote. Not so irrelavent as you think, and as I said, on the up, not declining like the support for the "big 3". UK politics looks like it will become more fragmented and they will be winners IMHO. None of the Big 3 really distinguish themselves, they all try and capture the same vote and hence all end up with similar policies
They're a bunch of ****ing little Englander arseholes as far as I can see.
They will have the odd moment of fame, like the BNP, but ultimately will have no effect on the British political landscape whatsoever.
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why is opposing large prisons but wanting to double places inconsistent - they say they will use prison ships and build more normal size prisons. If you can't understand that then the problem is you, not their policy!