NeilT

jeesus Jason - as everyone else on here says, this is getting forking stooopid.

How about we have a code of practice from now on, to try and prevent car jacking - something like..

1) if someone drives into the back of your car, stay in your car, keep the engine running and wind down the window an inch or two.

2) if it looks suspicous, phone the police via mobile phone.
3) take their details (if they give them to you) and get details of their reg / make model etc and drive to nearest police station if they wont cooperate with you.

would this go some way to preventing this happening? I dont know, just my 1 1/2 euros worth....

the other way is for us in the Scoobycommunity to gather all of the evidence available, chip in some dosh & hire a Private Detective to try and hunt down these scum....

Neil

Elvis Presley

Sorry. I know it's very easy to criticise the police, and not suggest any solutions, but surely we would all feel safer to see more police on the streets and not hiding behind bridges on the M42.

Giulianis Zero Tolerance policiy in New York seems to have worked well with the streets full of police everywhere. Unfortunatley we do not have the sort of money needed over here, but at least we could end these bloody stupid anti motorist policies and put the resources into proper policing.

Ignorant Elvis

CELL

Elvis

The problem, with spending more police resources on REAL crimes is that no extra revenue is generated

Its amazing that ripping off motorists for pathetic speeding offences seems to be a priority over the publics safety [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

HELLOM8

It’s incredible how my heart sank on reading this and now the anger pumping through me.
Its good you’re still in one piece, I hope you’re not to shaken up.
Does anyone know if there is a anti-hijack organisation?, if not I wonder if one could be created, a kind of neighbourhood watch for cars but better.
Take care M8.
Cheers.
Ian.

Bin Laden

The cops here are too busy filling in stupid paperwork back at the station: they need to cut the red tape.

fazack

Very sorry to hear this, I hope you get over the shock soon.

Has anybody got any advice on how to handle this situation ? I'm thinking of carrying a disposable camera in the glove box. If I get a slight bump from behind, keep the doors locked and take as many pictures of the car and driver as possible. Then get off the the nearest police station to report the incident. Whilst the police may not then be able to prove an attempted hijack, it may give them someone to monitor.

Have any of you guys got together to approach the Police to see what they think and if there is anything WE can do to help ?

NeilT

the idea of getting a group of us together in the back of a flash Scoob and driving around Bradford as bait until they strike might be a good one - could also consider taking a video cam along and getting their faces on crimewatch!

Bal

Glad to hear your in one piece.

Bal

carpet

I cant see anybody staying in their car after someone has shunted you. Your natural reaction is to get out of the car, that is why car jacking is so easy to do.

All you can do is 'get the **** out of dodge' if you think it looks iffy, get the reg etc and zoom off, but I reckon most peeps would stop and get out, probs to give a gobfull to the tit who has just hit you.

see on the news in london last night, some bloke heard people trying to nick his car from outside his house, he goes out and gets knifed !! k'in ell !!

scooby nutter

Good idea Neil T,but...Its the uk,the courts are in the offenders favour!!! if you batterd someone for trying to steal your car,i bet you would have a more severe sentance than the actual offender!!!


Jasonleeds,
hope you are ok.Lets Hang the Scum!!

BuRR

I'll quite happily take any of you guys out with me on a normal day's work. Unfortunately there'll be no catching paying motorists off-guard. I'll be taking you into deepest darkest East Leeds, where on some of the streets you daren't even drive, let alone stop!

This thread is slowly moving away from the facts of what happened, to another attack on the police it seems.

A certain area of Bradford is a minefield at the moment for legislation, human rights and race-complaints against the police. So much so, that more or less an entire police station's shift left the force and transferred to Skipton in North Yorkshire to get away from the crap. (and which one would ANYONE rather work?) This has left that area severely understaffed.
Now with the threat of complaint would you work there? A place where a complaint from the publice is dealt with by Discipline and Complaints as well as the Police Complaints authority, and can end up in civil court with you as the defendant and the force washing its hands of you? I know of several malicious complaints that have ruined officers' lives for two to three years at a time, only to be thrown out at court as its obvious that the "witnesses" haven't got their stories right.
It has got to bad in trying to get officers to transfer to that area of Bradford, that the force is even trying the "carrot" approach by saying that if people work there, then in 12 months they will get preferential posting to the department they wish. No chance!

Anyway, I've probably bored you all silly with this one.

The only thing I can suggest at this moment, is concur the advice to stay in your car with the doors locked and window slightly down. Also, at lights for god sake make sure you leave enough room from the car in front to escape if needs be - "tarmac and tires" was a phrase taught to me by my police driving instructor, see both in front and you've enough room. Then if anything looks dodgy, do your best to log the reg of the car behind, and ring 999 / and / or get yourself to the nearest police station.

Sorry my reply can't be longer than this but I'm not in a position to type anything more.

speedking

I see that for (attempted) theft of a mobile phone est. value = £200 the robber may get 5 years.

For attempted theft of a scooby est. value = £20000 the robber should get 500 years.

Doubt it would put them off though [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

NeilT

Scoobynutter - I take your point and so suggest simply filming the scum and providing all evidence to the police / crimewatch..

wouldnt a private i be able to track down this gang - they are obviously local (Leeds, Bradford) and we have info about them and their car (if its not torched somewhere by now). I'd chip in my hard earned cash to help this cause if other would follow.....worth a try??

Elvis Presley

I'd like to declare this the first annual meeting of the scoobynet vigilante group. Unfortunately I'm afraid that is as far as it will ever go. We all want to prevent this from happening again but to be practical all we can do is to discuss ways to avoid getting hit ourselves. The camera is a very good idea. Get pictures of their faces before you decide whether they are genuine.

The more ideas we get the better. It is important that we look out for each other. It can happen to any of us, as proven. The only good thing to come out of this is that we are all becoming more aware of the problem.

It is also worth remembering that 3 lads jumping out of the back of a scoob with bats are just as likely to get shot by the car jackers, which would be far worse.

As previously discussed in other threads another possible solution would be a remote control imobiliser.

Watch this space. (Damn - I guess it's too late to file for a patent).

CELL

Burr

Why do areas like that exist anyway? Are we saying that we have been let down so badly be the legal system that the scum of this earth have more rights than the police ?
If thats the case we are all doomed

Someone mentioned baiting the **** heads, that seems like the obvious thing to do. Why dont the police do that?

Dont take this as a dig at you personally.

Cheers

Chris

JASON H

Sorry to hear about that,it seems you carn't
have anything these days. Glad your ok
shame about the car though!

BuRR

We can't bait. Courts throw this kind of thing out and call it "entrapment".

For example, in the early 90's, in the TWOC revolution West Yorks Police comissioned a Vauxhall Astra GTE. They called it the Rat Trap. They then parked it in a place where cars tended to get stolen from. The car had a blackjax type immobiliser fitted, so it set off but stalled after about 200 yards. The doors also locked and the glass in the windows were thoughened. An alarm went off in a nearby police car leading to the capture of the crooks caught inside the Astra. This didn't last long before cases got thrown out left right and centre due to the above.

South Seacroft, IMHO, is the pit of Leeds. The council throws money at it left right and centre, but houses end up smashed after only a matter of months. These places DO exist, and WILL exist as long as these people are happy to live in them. These are the places where 3 year old children play barefoot in the gutters at the side of the street at 11pm at night. This is the place where stolen cars "perform" in front of the whole street (now I'm talking adults here too) and when asked no one knows or has seen anything. These are the places where people burgle(?) not just their neighbours, but their mothers and grandmas. What I can't understand is that although these people plead poverty, they are ALWAYS dressed in all the labels, ALWAYS pissed on a Friday and Saturday nights and Sunday afternoon and night, ALWAYS have a packet of cigs in their pocket, drive or take taxis everywhere they go, and more often that not have a wallet full of money. But again, no one sees or knows of any crime going on. - and these are the UNEMPLOYED people!
The Killingbeck Division of East Leeds (where I work) contains 250,000 people. Of these, 60,000 have a criminal record, or have had some dealings with the police in their time. On average, a shift puts out 14 officers, usually doubling them up in cars to act as corroboration AND support/backup. That means that each officer has potentially 4300 offenders to "look after". That as well as anything between 50-150 calls to answer in an 8 hour period between the shift, AND to deal with the $h1tbags nicking cars and driving with no insurance, the burglaries in progress, the shoplifters, the purse-dippers, the bogus officials, the parking problems, the missing persons, the concerned relatives, the deaths at home, directing traffic, RTA's, assaults, neighbour disputes, domestics, to name but a few.
AND to top it all, there's the threat of confrontation in every job you go to. Often I've gone to fights, where both warring parties have then turned on the police together. Thank **** for CS gas. And yes - I've been on the wrong end of a right shoeing in 1995.

There aren't enough hours in a day tbh So please think twice about giving ALL of us a hard time. I can't be everywhere all of the time.

I do what I can though

[Edited by BuRR - 1/30/2002 1:36:48 PM]

BuRR

tell me about it - there's nothing worse than someone getting off at court due to a technicality!

for example, in 1996, I followed a stolen car. I had seen the car on 2 previous occasions and took note of the driver as he had bright ginger hair. Anyway, I again dropped behind the car where it stopped and the 2 lads in it got out and ran into a nearby furniture store. Unluckily for them, there was no way out so I arrested them both.

I identified the ginger haired one as driver, so charged him with TWOC as the driver (he was also disqualified) and no insurance.

The passenger was charged with TWOC carried on.

the passenger went guilty at court and got done (can't remember the sentence)

The driver said not guilty. I was in the car, but not the driver.

Our forensic could not support my arguement that he was driver. My word against his. They acquitted him.

Now - this is what pisses me off:

Even though the toerag admitted to being in a stolen car, he got off with it because he had been charged as the driver! wtf? I still can't get my head round it!

AFR

Does your insurance not require an exchange of details to take place between those involved in a collision? If this is the case, how do they view things if you drive off because you believe it to be an attempted car-jacking?

Or do you need to get out the car and be attacked first?


P.S. Very sorry to hear about this incident Jason - BARSTEWARDS!

juan

not trying to assist in an attack on the cops but...
2 incidents:

last week my neighbours car got broken into while he was at work. The car park was under CCTV surveilance. Cops were called ast the tapes showed clearly the guys doing 5 different cars. Got their faces / their car, the lot. The cops were absolutely not interested. Didn't even bother to run the plate apparently. FFS this is pobviously a somewhat organised gang so nicking the fekkers should reduce the amount of car crime by a fair amount in that particular area. Absolutely not interested

second incident a couple of years back
My lady's car was stolen from outside her house. Cops not interested - fair enough. 1 month later she gets a call saying its been spotted so she can go and collect it. Her flatmate kindly goes for it as I was living several hundred miles away). When he gets there he sees it is completely blocked in by two other cars and sees a bunch of lads carrying bits of it into their house. Now he's on his own so he doesn't want too much trouble, but he goes up to it and opens it with the key. They watch. He has a look under the bonnet to see whats amiss and finds battery gone amongsat other stuff. So he pushes off home and then goes to 'buy' a battery from Halfords. Comes back to find them trying to move the car. They walk back into their house when he shows up. so he whacks the battery in and drives it home. We call the old Bill as there were several other cars around in various states of undress. Provide em with an address, evidence, the lot. They can't even be arsed to go round there. Same story - a 'sort of' gang operating on stolen cars and they don't give a t055. Afgain, could have dropped the car crime rate. What is going on here? Thats 2 opportunities to put some little sh1tbags away with eveidence popping out of their ears and yet they don't even want to know.

I totally cannot understand this attitude

edited to add: I know the prosecution procedures can suck but this is ridiculous. Both topics need looking into. Preoblem is there's no politician with any b@lls so we're up the creek. uh oh. Don't get me started on the political side of things!! We'll be here all day. rant rant rant!

:-)

[Edited by juan - 1/30/2002 2:19:36 PM]

BarnStormer

Of course its a legal requirement to stop after an accident to exchange details. Failure to do so can lead to a court appearance, fine and points on licence. I was unfortunate enough to get this when I was threatened by a car full of blokes so I did what I thought would be the sensible thing and drove to the nearest police station, with the other car chasing me.

The got out and legged it into the cop shop, we had a bit of a row and I had to give a statement. Didn't think anything more of it, but being Devon and Cornwall Constabulary they had **** all else to do so took me to court for failing to stop at the scene of an accident. Like why did I drive to the police station to report it then? Incidents like this obviously destroy any trust or confidence you have in the police. In the end I didn't get any points due to the "mitigating circumstances" just a small fine, but a huge waste of taxpayers money.

So what do you do Coppers? Break the law or get out and risk being killed?

[Edited by BarnStormer - 1/30/2002 2:25:13 PM]

BuRR

I can't understand the officers' attitudes there.

First one - seize the vid, get some stills made up - send it off the crimestoppers and circulate around the station for id'ing the suspects. Bobs yer uncle.

Second one. Fair enough, direct action was not a possibility, as the officers may not have seen the stuff going into the house, but they could have secured the premises and got a warrant from court. Either that or there may have been another power of entry - I can't say what as I don't know the circumstances.

Fair enough, if its exactly how you say then you've been hard done by.

But please, in every profession, in every group of people, there are certain individuals who let the side down. Everyone thinks differently, and its only human nature. All I ask is, although it must be difficult, please don't tar us all with the same brush.

I do my job to make a difference. To make the streets safer. Not to line the government's pockets. I enjoy my driving, as does everyone else on this board I should imagine. Please cut us (personally) some rope and lets get on.

I don't see anyone dissing the software engineers cos their Windows just crashed, or the doctors / dentists because they happen to be suffering some pain or got bad advice from their own GP.

(nothing personal )

DavidRB

It's not the police who are the problem, it's the law-makers and the judges.

Until criminals get the sentences they deserve and actually suffer as a consequence of their actions, there is little point in the police even trying to stem the tide.

BuRR

And I would personally drive off if I felt threatened. Straight to the nearest station. I would also dial 999 and get the call logged, explaining that you'd had a bump, however as you had felt threatened had decided to drive to the local station.

BuRR

I know that, unfortunately. We're quite thick skinned, but can't help finding it a bit personal when straight after my post someone makes a reference to a lame copper. Just try and see it from my side of the fence???

Just a thought.

Anyway - I'm gonna go get warmed up for some CS tonight methinks. Just think - you can legally shoot a police officer in that game

AFR

Burr, just to elaborate a bit on what I said before, maybe you can help.

Will my insurance cover me if I drive off after being bumped in what I perceive to be an attempted car-jacking or will this breach the terms of my policy? ie, that I must exchange details with the other party and not just drive off.

Can anyone clarify this?