"UK tax burden 51% higher under labour."
12 May 2008, 03:24 PM
#61
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Hmm Can't every remember posting that and can't be ars3d to find if I did.
Nu Labia - almost without exception use that term to describe them on this board. Flash - well, almost always use that as well, but then so do most people from about the age of 6! Cyclops - have seen it used but, and I may be wrong, have never used it myself.
I see you never answered the serious point I was making regarding Nu Labia's 'glib promises' - that are only made to keep them in power. It's funny but from the first moment I saw him speak I could see Tony Blair was an *actor*. Lot's of people only now, a dozen or so years later, waking up to that. Even Lord Cashpoint says that in his book. And he's meant to be a mate!!
As for our contributions to the EU: most of what we get back is in the form of CAP-type payments. So not back to the treasury to use as we want and yes, we should just pull out of the EU! A whole bunch of our problems would disappear overnight.
Dave
Nu Labia - almost without exception use that term to describe them on this board. Flash - well, almost always use that as well, but then so do most people from about the age of 6! Cyclops - have seen it used but, and I may be wrong, have never used it myself.
I see you never answered the serious point I was making regarding Nu Labia's 'glib promises' - that are only made to keep them in power. It's funny but from the first moment I saw him speak I could see Tony Blair was an *actor*. Lot's of people only now, a dozen or so years later, waking up to that. Even Lord Cashpoint says that in his book. And he's meant to be a mate!!
As for our contributions to the EU: most of what we get back is in the form of CAP-type payments. So not back to the treasury to use as we want and yes, we should just pull out of the EU! A whole bunch of our problems would disappear overnight.
Dave
Well it's no big and it's not clever
As for Blair, I'd have him back in a instant over Brown.
Actor? well maybe, bad at somethings certainly, brilliant politican, undoubtedly.
As for EU payments, well me may be in agreement on that, I think the CAP is an utter disgrace, anti-competitive and immoral.
As for pulling out of the EU, I can't understand the logic in doing that, we should be trying to shape it, and in many ways we are starting to win the arguement, especially now we have decent leaders in France and Germany.
12 May 2008, 03:38 PM
#62
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12 May 2008, 03:43 PM
#63
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Why should those who don't work and don't contribute to the services, be eligable for the same level of service as those who do?
12 May 2008, 03:49 PM
#64
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I didn't say stop the service, I said downgrade it to a basic level. If you can't afford a Ferrari, buy a mini, it's still fit for purpose. If you can't afford to go private, you'll just have to live with the tatoo proclaiming undying love for you ex wife.
Why should those who don't work and don't contribute to the services, be eligable for the same level of service as those who do?
Why should those who don't work and don't contribute to the services, be eligable for the same level of service as those who do?
I agree let's get all those scrounging children, pensioners and disabled people out of the way, so that we the tax payers can get a better service!
Do you think before you post?
12 May 2008, 03:52 PM
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The Bruges Group
The EU costs us alot more than we pay in. The method by which this cash allegedly comes back is also extremely dubious seeing as it most of it goes to private companies. so to claim that the tax payer sees any significant benefit from any of the payment back in is ridiculous. The 12 billion is the tip of the iceberg in terms of the real cost to britan of being on the EU.
12 May 2008, 03:53 PM
#66
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An immediate repsonse to that would be:
children are the responsibility of their parents
pensioners have been paying all their adult life
the disabled are societies responsibility
12 May 2008, 03:55 PM
#67
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The Bruges Group
The EU costs us alot more than we pay in. The method by which this cash allegedly comes back is also extremely dubious seeing as it most of it goes to private companies. so to claim that the tax payer sees any significant benefit from any of the payment back in is ridiculous. The 12 billion is the tip of the iceberg in terms of the real cost to britan of being on the EU.
The EU costs us alot more than we pay in. The method by which this cash allegedly comes back is also extremely dubious seeing as it most of it goes to private companies. so to claim that the tax payer sees any significant benefit from any of the payment back in is ridiculous. The 12 billion is the tip of the iceberg in terms of the real cost to britan of being on the EU.
If you were to use a national agency (our own Govt for example) wouldn't you lower the level of overhead to manage the fund?
12 May 2008, 04:01 PM
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The Bruges Group
The EU costs us alot more than we pay in. The method by which this cash allegedly comes back is also extremely dubious seeing as it most of it goes to private companies. so to claim that the tax payer sees any significant benefit from any of the payment back in is ridiculous. The 12 billion is the tip of the iceberg in terms of the real cost to britan of being on the EU.
The EU costs us alot more than we pay in. The method by which this cash allegedly comes back is also extremely dubious seeing as it most of it goes to private companies. so to claim that the tax payer sees any significant benefit from any of the payment back in is ridiculous. The 12 billion is the tip of the iceberg in terms of the real cost to britan of being on the EU.
Are you willing to concede that there are also benefits to being part of the 'club'?
12 May 2008, 04:04 PM
#69
Pete
Margaret thatcher had nothing to do with dentists seeing "private patients"....in fact, at that time "mixing" (doing private dentistry on NHS patients) was a serious offence and you could be struck off !!
It was only more recently that the rules were relaxed so that dentists could do more private work....paving the way for a complete conversion to private practice and dropping NHS Work.
Shaun
Margaret thatcher had nothing to do with dentists seeing "private patients"....in fact, at that time "mixing" (doing private dentistry on NHS patients) was a serious offence and you could be struck off !!
It was only more recently that the rules were relaxed so that dentists could do more private work....paving the way for a complete conversion to private practice and dropping NHS Work.
Shaun
12 May 2008, 04:08 PM
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I noticed you did not mention that we have lost our rebate so those figures are wrong. I also dispute that we get anything back. We pay money to europe thay waste some then they give a tiny percentage of it back provided we spend on ecactly what they want us to.
Europe is why I get cold calls from companies everyday offering me free EU funded training for all of my staff. Thats why each councill has to test white lines down the middle of the road in a way that the testing costs more than painting a new white line. Europe funding which ultimately comes from the tax payer has given one group of people I know 40k a year for a two day week for 'helping people with disabilities get jobs'
Europe is why I get cold calls from companies everyday offering me free EU funded training for all of my staff. Thats why each councill has to test white lines down the middle of the road in a way that the testing costs more than painting a new white line. Europe funding which ultimately comes from the tax payer has given one group of people I know 40k a year for a two day week for 'helping people with disabilities get jobs'
12 May 2008, 04:12 PM
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# This year membership of the European Union will cost Britain £60.1 billion gross, or £50.6 billion net.
There are of course benefits to Europe but the financial cost is far far to high for the UK and the benefits coould be achieved without spending the money
12 May 2008, 04:22 PM
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Children aside, pensioners do still pay tax and plenty of disabled people work and pay tax. Do you think before you post?
12 May 2008, 04:22 PM
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Sorry but that is just hogwash!
12 May 2008, 04:23 PM
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Pete
Margaret thatcher had nothing to do with dentists seeing "private patients"....in fact, at that time "mixing" (doing private dentistry on NHS patients) was a serious offence and you could be struck off !!
It was only more recently that the rules were relaxed so that dentists could do more private work....paving the way for a complete conversion to private practice and dropping NHS Work.
Shaun
Margaret thatcher had nothing to do with dentists seeing "private patients"....in fact, at that time "mixing" (doing private dentistry on NHS patients) was a serious offence and you could be struck off !!
It was only more recently that the rules were relaxed so that dentists could do more private work....paving the way for a complete conversion to private practice and dropping NHS Work.
Shaun
Plus of course the closure of the colleges.
Originally Posted by OllyK
Why should those who don't work and don't contribute to the services, be eligable for the same level of service as those who do?
If you want private care - go pay for it - But don't reduce the level of care to those less fortunate than yourself to "basic" just out of sheer greed.
Originally Posted by Luan Pra Bang
Where did I mention cutting expenditure ? I said we could add 50% to the current expendidture. try to read better
12 May 2008, 04:25 PM
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12 May 2008, 04:26 PM
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The issue is at an impass
Other than the rebate and the CAP, obviously.
12 May 2008, 04:28 PM
#77
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Add to that, at the moment there is almost an incentive to put yourself in a position where you are unable to contribute as the government will keep taking from those that can in order to cover your share for you.
12 May 2008, 04:28 PM
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I noticed you did not mention that we have lost our rebate so those figures are wrong. I also dispute that we get anything back. We pay money to europe thay waste some then they give a tiny percentage of it back provided we spend on ecactly what they want us to.
Europe is why I get cold calls from companies everyday offering me free EU funded training for all of my staff. Thats why each councill has to test white lines down the middle of the road in a way that the testing costs more than painting a new white line. Europe funding which ultimately comes from the tax payer has given one group of people I know 40k a year for a two day week for 'helping people with disabilities get jobs'
Europe is why I get cold calls from companies everyday offering me free EU funded training for all of my staff. Thats why each councill has to test white lines down the middle of the road in a way that the testing costs more than painting a new white line. Europe funding which ultimately comes from the tax payer has given one group of people I know 40k a year for a two day week for 'helping people with disabilities get jobs'
We lost part of our rebate, which is why I put the figure at nearer $6bn. I'm not going to defend the EU and it's costly administrative costs, I'm simply telling that the £60bn number you quoted is grossly wrong.
12 May 2008, 04:28 PM
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12 May 2008, 04:30 PM
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Net contributions are around £4.3billion with Gross at about £12billion.
12 May 2008, 04:32 PM
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There comes a point of diminishing returns. We seem to have hit a point with the NHS where throwing billions at it has seen little improvement in the overall service. Get back to basics and invest the cash elsewhere.
Add to that, at the moment there is almost an incentive to put yourself in a position where you are unable to contribute as the government will keep taking from those that can in order to cover your share for you.
Add to that, at the moment there is almost an incentive to put yourself in a position where you are unable to contribute as the government will keep taking from those that can in order to cover your share for you.
It needs serious, genuine and lasting root & branch reforms IMHO so that the money spent on it is accountable and spent with the end user in mind.
12 May 2008, 04:32 PM
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Add to that the fact we have record levels of employment and then incentive not to work seems to be the exact opposite.
12 May 2008, 04:35 PM
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12 May 2008, 04:40 PM
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12 May 2008, 04:42 PM
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12 May 2008, 04:47 PM
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Very good.I did say, "On the basis of that reply......"
Regardless
All your posts so far point to the fact you beleive in a basic level of service for all, which you then top up according to how rich you are.
So if you are disabled and work and pay tax, and have a few bob - then great - Have some home help and some specialised housing.
But if you don't contribute at all, then you just get the basic level of service. Say a wheelchair and a grant to stick some bumpers on the bath.
That cover it?
Last edited by PeteBrant; 12 May 2008 at 04:49 PM.
12 May 2008, 04:56 PM
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Luan, we don't pay £50 billion a year to the EU.
We simply don't. That website is just silly.
I love the "EU Over regulation" heading...
The *Total* budget of the common fisheries policy Europe wide is under £1 billion, yet we contribute £2.5billion to it?
Audited accounts are they?
Global Vision - Fact Sheets - 15.2 The UK's net contribution to EU
We pay in £12 billion gross.
We simply don't. That website is just silly.
I love the "EU Over regulation" heading...
The *Total* budget of the common fisheries policy Europe wide is under £1 billion, yet we contribute £2.5billion to it?
Audited accounts are they?
Global Vision - Fact Sheets - 15.2 The UK's net contribution to EU
We pay in £12 billion gross.
Last edited by PeteBrant; 12 May 2008 at 04:58 PM.
12 May 2008, 04:57 PM
#90
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Well it's no big and it's not clever
As for Blair, I'd have him back in a instant over Brown.
Actor? well maybe, bad at somethings certainly, brilliant politican, undoubtedly.
As for EU payments, well me may be in agreement on that, I think the CAP is an utter disgrace, anti-competitive and immoral.
As for pulling out of the EU, I can't understand the logic in doing that, we should be trying to shape it, and in many ways we are starting to win the arguement, especially now we have decent leaders in France and Germany.
As for Blair, I'd have him back in a instant over Brown.
Actor? well maybe, bad at somethings certainly, brilliant politican, undoubtedly.
As for EU payments, well me may be in agreement on that, I think the CAP is an utter disgrace, anti-competitive and immoral.
As for pulling out of the EU, I can't understand the logic in doing that, we should be trying to shape it, and in many ways we are starting to win the arguement, especially now we have decent leaders in France and Germany.
Trying to shape an institution that has been set up precisely to *shape us* into part of a Euro superstate? You're 'avin a laugh me old son ...... No way in a million years will we be able to shape anything that is EU. Not to the benefit of the UK tax payer anyway. The political classes however shape it to feather their own nests and further their own power base. If you can't see that then get back to the page 3 I, apparently, accused you of taking too much notice of ....
Dave