r32

The study, by the Association of European Automobile Manufacturers, shows that Britain has the highest fuel taxes of 27 European countries surveyed.

The tax is also higher than in America, Canada and Australia

r32

In a major blow for Alistair Darling hours ahead of his first Budget, comprehensive research has shown that the middle classes have shouldered one of the world's biggest increases in their tax since 2002.



Measures set to be confirmed today are expected to raise the tax bill for Britain's poorest households
During the same period the average tax burden in most countries actually declined, according to the report from the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development [OECD].

PeteBrant

I'll think you'll find the burden of proof is on you, Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

PeteBrant

What you are saying here and earlier are two different things. "The highest taced nation in the world" and "On of the worlds biggest tax increases" ar enot one and the same.


We aren;t the highest taxed nation in the world. We aren't the highest taxed nation in Europe.

Heres the BASIC rate of incomes tax fro some countries....

Austria 50%
Denmark 48%
Belgium 50%
Croatia 45%
Finland 53%
France 40%
Italy 45%
Switzerland 45.5%

I could go on with several other countries (and then add on the fact that many of them have higher rates of VAT)

UK 22%

The UK tax burden for the average person is around 37.5%. The average for europe is around 42%

We aren't close to being the highest taxed place on earth.


One thing that become obvious though... Looks at the place with famously excellent public services - Oh look, its the places with a high tax rate. Sort of a poke in the eye for the "you can do it by cutting waste" argument, isn't it?

Unless of course those posters are better informed than most of the governments of Europe and know something they don't.

Luan Pra bang

Pete why quote income tax when that represents less than half the money the government gets from the UK public ? You fail to mention VAT, VED, council tax, fuel duty, kengestioncharge, inheritance tax, and stamp duty as some of the many others.

Geezer

If you read Petes post, he does go on to say that the tax burden is 37.5%, and that obviously includes all the other taxes you talk about.

Geezer

PeteBrant

Because the tax burden can only be calculated on Taxes you *must*pay - obviously.

Why on earth would you include Congestion charge as part of the national average tax burden, when the vast majority of the public don't pay it?

Unless you are very very unlucky, you don't pay inheritance tax every year.

etc.

As for VAT we are amongst the lowest rates in the EU

With regards to Stamp Duty, again this is in lots of other EU countries

The average tax burden is 37.5% in the UK.
The average tax burden is 42% on the EU.

Luan Pra bang

Execpt that figure is very from correct and seeing as the source is not quotes I imagine it comes direct from his beloved Labour party website.

the average rate of income tax will be over 22% for starters, 22% is the lowest rate. national insurance represents 19% of your pay, but 10% is paid by your employer on your behalf. That means over 40% of your salary is tax. That is before all the other taxes I mentioned. The real figure for tax we pay is close to 65% than 37%

Tidgy

tbh i have no faith in any of the parties.

there so busy blaming the other they have no realist plans or ways to make things better, so all they do is say how crap the other partis are.

i'm 26 and already don't care about politics, how bad is that

PeteBrant

Not quite from the labour party.

Tax burden heaviest for 22 years | This is Money


Tax is now a flat rate of 20% as we know.

Higher tax of 40% comes in at £37,500.

Given the national average wage is around £24,000 we don;t need to worry about the higher rate.

So that's 20% tax.
Ni is 11% at the standard rate (obviously in both cases you have your LEL, which reduces the overall burden).

It's absolutely nowhere near 65%, that's a ridiculous thing to say.

Luan Pra bang

So you are saying becuase we could live in a box and avoid council tax and VAT on fuel we should ingnore this from the tax burden even though these taxes are paid by the British Public ?

It still represents money taken from the population and given to the government ie tax.

[quote=petebrant]Unless you are very very unlucky, you don't pay inheritance tax every year.[quote]

So you don't pay it often that stops it being a tax ?






Still taxes the public pay to the government are you getting this yet

I will dispute those figures all day long just becuase thats what GOrdon told you does not make it true.

Geezer

I'm not quite sure where you are getting these figures from, but they simply don't add up. The Revenue website has it at 11% (if you earn over a certain amount that is). Also, you are tax free up to a certain amount, then 22% then 40%, so the majority of the country who are low earners (average pay is falsely high due to the highest earners) are paying alot less tax and NI than you seem to think.

I'm not a fan of Labour, but let's not make silly claims about 60% tax!

Even if your claims were true, then figures for other countries are likely to be just as skewed, so we still pay less than other countries!

Geezer

PeteBrant

No, I said that it would be silly to include congestion charge.

All european countries have a Fuel Duty, and all of the charge VAT on fuel - What make you think we should be different?

Now you're being silly - A charge paid by a few hundred thousand a day does not constitute a national tax.


Of course it's a tax, but it's not a regular tax, and when factored into the average, probably accounts for 0.5% of the annual total.



I didn't get them from Gordon, as shown by the this is money link - Do your own research - look at the OECD nations and sites, look at the EU numbers.

I have no idea where you are getting your numbers from (Daily Mail perhaps?) but you are absolutely wrong.

unclebuck

This, of course, is the whole concept of Nu Labour 'stealth taxes'.

They skew the figures as they are not taken into account in the standard taxation calculations.

As we can see they work well in fooling the less wise into believing they are getting a good deal on taxation.

Geezer

This is ridiculous, you can't say that things like IHT are stealth tax!

Most of the UK population is under the IHT threshold and won't pay it! It's also something that you won't pay very often in your life even if you do have to. Yes, it's a tax, no one is denying that, but you also have to pay tax on betting. I do not bet, ever, it will never be a tax on me, lot's of people don't so do you think that should be added on to the list of taxes? OK, it's capital gains tax, but like IHT, if you dont' incur captial gains, it's unlikely to be a burden on you.

The average tax burden is calculated on what most people have to pay in their every day lives. We all pay income tax (if you earn enough) NI (if you earn enough), we all have to pay VAT and the majority of people have to pay duty on fuel.

You can add up all the little taxes that you may never pay to paint as bad a picture as you like, but the fact still remains that we are not taxed as much as lots of other countries, and sadly their public services are on the whole better.

Geezer

MattW

I just got my P60. After tax reductions for pension contributions my net tax %age is 30.88%.

Local taxation is the killer for me, as is inflation, because that is and has not been at 2% for the last few years.

Luan Pra bang

When you get paid your employer pays 10% NI on your behalf this is often over looked in tax calculations.

The governemnt spending is 587000000000 a year the work force is 30000000 that means the government spends £19566.00 pounds per worker per year. How then can the tax burden including fine levies and stealth taxes be 37% ?

Luan Pra bang

I'll repeat that. The government spends almost 20k per person oer year.


but tax is only 37% honest

PeteBrant

So tell, me. In what way, does Employer NI contributions affect you personal tax burden?

Because GDP is £2.7 Trillion.
The tax revenue is £587 Billion

Tax doesn't just come from individuals. How much do you think the country gets from corporation tax?

Your sums are fundamentally wrong.

Luan Pra bang

Plus 10% paid by your employer on your behalf add in council tax, VAT and fuel duty I think it may come to more than 37.5 %. Thats before VAT on energy.

PeteBrant

Per worker - Not per person.

You have left out almost half the tax revenue of the country; You are basing all your sums on personal tax.


Which is a bit silly.

Geezer

So the tax burden is the highest for 20 years. Now who was in power then I wonder? Would it have been the Tories?

*waits for posts about how if was Labours fault even though the Tories had been power for 9 years........*

Geezer

Luan Pra bang

It makes a massive difference to me as I pay it. The employers NI makes a massive difference to how much salary I can offer people.




Where do corporations get the money to pay taxes. From us the general public. That tax burden still affects just not so directly.

Do you dispute that the governmet spends 20k per working member of the public did I miss a zero somewhere or is the maths correct?

Mitchy260

CPI is now officially at 3%. Wonder what it is in real terms

BBC NEWS | Business | UK inflation jumps to 3% in April

I have a fuel receipt from Nov 2007 showing 94.9p litre. 6 months later at the same garage it is now 109.9p litre. I work that out around +16% in 6 months, never mind the year.

Plasma televisions and ipods have dropped though

A different point...We raised £158bn last year through income tax only to spend £161 on welfare. Absoloute ludicrous spending. The majority of it was not spent on pensions like someone else has said. (PeteBrant i believe you have this table)

The poorer classes through the benefits system are better off than the working classes no doubt about it. That is obviously wrong, but thats what labour have achieved.

How about reward the working and middle classes who get absoloutly shafted in taxation

Yes we only pay 20% IT and 11% NI directly in taxation, but what about council tax and water rates? These are direct taxes that MUST be paid. What about the cost of living, gas and food bills? What about car related taxation inc petrol? What about VAT/Inheritance/Stamp duties etc?

Im pretty sure we have 1 of the highest priced housing markets in the world also.

No-one can deny we are taxed pretty heavily and a lot more than the 31% from IT and NI suggests.

PeteBrant

No, the question was, "what difference does it make to the tax burden?" Not "how does it affect the salary you can pay?


What???!? So now you are saying when we go to a shop to buy a new Fridge, we are infact not paying for the goods, but we are indirectly paying tax.

Luan, seriously, you have gone beyond grasping at straws now. Give it up.

Nope, I don't dispute it at all. I was saying that there is a difference betwe per *person* and per *worker*

What I do dispute is that you are basing your argument on the false premise that *all* tax revenue comes from personal tax.

It doesn't

Therefore your assertion that because the working man has £20K spent on him in tax, the percentage must be much higher than 37% is completely wrong.

As soon as you make that £20K up from other taxes, i.e. corporation tax, then the percentage made up by personal tax, obviously drops.

Geezer

Well, most people in the UK are NOT employers, they are employess, or unemployed or retired or of school age. You are once again basing the overall UK tax burden on your personal situation.




That is a really stupid argument! Everyone pays everyone else for something, doesn't mean you are paying their taxes, unbelievable!


Geezer

Mitchy260

A table of our income and expenditure...

National Balance | Budget 2008

Paul3446

I wonder how you work out someone's actual tax burden though?

My deductions from my salary last year were about 30%, however, that doesn't mean my tax burden is 30%, because once I've been taxed on my earnings, I spend them on things like petrol, which is taxed at about 75%, or anything subject to VAT at 17.5%, or airline tax when I go on holiday, or car insurance tax. Plus my road tax is part of my tax burden.

So if for example I spend £2,000 on petrol a year, how do you work out what the tax burden is on that £2,000?

I'm sure there are plenty of others that don't spring readily to mind, but I wouldn't be surprised if the overall tax burden is around 60% as someone suggested earlier.

r32

[QUOTE=r32;7869598]I got it from the OECD, 37.4% of the GDP is tax.
The OECD has ranked the tax take of the world's 30 richest nations, and for the first time since 1986 Britain is among the 10 most taxed countries, above the US, Australia, Spain, Italy and Germany.


The OECD must be wrong then ...........

Also I saw a chart which showed not tax as a percentage of the GDP but as a percentage of the average take home pay. That put us up near the top as well. I'll try and find that.