Mitchy260

Lets not forget council tax which is just as well being taxed directly from your wages too.

Paul3446

Good point, I forgot the biggest tax of all!

PeteBrant

It's taken as an average Paul.

If you ar ein the higher tax bracket then you are above average. You might pay more VAT than the average person.

If you spent £2000 on petrol you would divide by the average cost per litre over the year to give you the number of litres. Times the number of litres by 50 pence to give you duty paid, and then take 17.5% of the £2000 for VAT and add it onto the duty.


All of these figures are avergaes - Avergae fuel, average VAT total, avergae luxiries and so on. And that figure, for Mr Average comes out at 37.5% - I have linked to an indepndant source for this figure.

If you earn a considerable amount, you may find your Burden goes up slightly. If you don't earn much, then your burden will be lower.

However, I think it's almost impossible to get anywhere near 60%.

PeteBrant

Really? The biggest tax of all? Your biggest tax is your council tax?

Lucky you!

PeteBrant

More source data here
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/pls...2007-EN-AP.PDF

In 2005 - Nominal average tax burden for the EU 39.6%
For the UK - 37%
For Belgium 45.5%
For France 44%

r32

Labour came to power in 1997 promising "world-class" public services. This fatuous expression tripped off Tony Blair's tongue more often than Two Jags regurgitated KFC and Carnation Milk.

We were going to have a "world-class" transport system, "world-class" education, "world-class" hospitals, "world-class" sports facilities - "world-class" absolutely bloody everything.

Eleven years on, Gordon Brown is still at it. Since becoming Prime Minister, I've counted at least seven speeches he's made about "world-class" schools, skills, health, infrastructure and energy policy.

He even told us London needed "world-class" leadership in the shape of Ken Livingstone, a man he has despised for 25 years.

"World-class" is the most hackneyed phrase in politics. I can only assume that politicians employ it in the same way British Airways uses "World Traveller" to denote third-class (fourth if you include "World Traveller Plus").

Britain is always going to "lead the world" in meeting our international commitments. For instance, Brown told a conference on climate change that not only would we comply with the Kyoto Treaty targets on cutting so- called greenhouse emissions, we would go 15 per cent better.

Why? Sorry, silly me. It's another excuse to raise taxes, like most things this government touches.

There was a time when Britain did genuinely lead the world. We used to have a world-class education system, a world-class national health service, a world-class transport infrastructure. We led the world in manufacturing and engineering. Our police force was admired around the globe.

No one would claim any of that today, other than a lying politician on the make.

It would be wrong to lay all the blame at the door of the Blair/Brown government. All post-war administrations must share the responsibility. But Labour came to power full of fine promises about restoring Britain's 'world-class' status.

So let's just examine their record.

There are, to be fair, many areas where Britain leads the world by some margin. This week it was reported that we are about to become the abortion capital of the world. We already have the highest rate in Europe and will soon overtake the USA and Australia.

When that happens, Labour will have achieved an impressive win double - the most abortions and the highest rate of teenage pregnancies in the world. Meanwhile, family breakdown and divorce flourishes as the Government skews the tax and benefits system in favour of single parenthood.

Well done, New Labour. In 1997, on the eve of the election, Blair said there were only "24 hours to save the NHS". Billions of pounds have been pumped in by Gordon Brown and we still have some of the lowest cancer and heart disease survival rates in the developed world.

Credit where it's due, though. We are roaring ahead when it comes to superbugs, with thousands dying every year from MRSA infections they contracted in hospital.

Those who can afford it - and plenty who can't - are opting to go abroad for operations rather than put their lives in the hands of the NHS.


Education, education, education was going to be "world-class", too. Yet, after more than a decade of Labour "investment", 30,000 pupils are leaving school every year without any qualifications at all.

Playing fields continue to be flogged off to the highest bidder, and yesterday it was reported that only one school in ten now bothers with cricket. Is it any wonder we're starting to run America close in the obesity stakes?

As for transport, remember when we used to fill up at Dover before taking our lives in our hands on those sub- standard continental roads? Now we top up our tanks in cut-price Calais on the way back and dread the journey home once we arrive on the British side of the Channel.


We have some of the most expensive petrol and worst-maintained roads in the world, despite extortionate levels of motoring taxes. Britain does, however, lead the world in traffic humps, pot-holes and speed cameras.

The railways are unreliable, expensive and non-existent in rural areas. In "world-class" London, the streets are clogged with ridiculous bendy buses, sadistically-phased traffic lights and deliberately-engineered jams. On the Tube, a single one-stop fare in central London costs £4. Boris has got his work cut out.

Policing and law and order has come a long way under Labour, too. Britain now has 23 per cent of all the CCTV surveillance cameras in the world - more than four million - yet only this week a senior police officer admitted they were worse than useless in fighting crime. You're twice as likely to get robbed in London than in New York.

Thanks to 'yuman rites' laws, Britain has become a safe haven for international terrorists and illegal immigrants. Just ask Abu Qatada, Bin Laden's European "ambassador".

Meanwhile, hundreds of police stations have been closed, along with hundreds of post offices, another area where Britain used to lead the world.

Oh, and what about "world-class" skills? We're having to import plumbers and bricklayers from Eastern Europe, not to mention cleaners, while the Government pays five million people to sit at home claiming out- of-work benefits.

Way to go, Gordon. As for 'world-class' public services, despite council tax being doubled, we don't even get our dustbins emptied once a week any more. Elsewhere in Europe and the U.S. the rubbish is collected several times a week.

And don't get me started on pensions.

After 11 years of Labour, Britain leads the world in abortion, teenage pregnancy, family breakdown, burglary, spy cameras, speed cameras, parking fines, wheel-clamping, dustbin fines, green taxes, fuel taxes, stealth taxes, superbugs, binge-drinking, drug-taking, stabbing and social disorder.

We may not have much in the way of engineering or manufacturing, but we can boast the planet's highest concentration of public sector inspectors, equality monitors, risk assessors, transgender advisers, climate change warriors, outreach co-ordinators, diversity managers, streetscene officers, traffic wardens, elf 'n' safety enforcers, five-a-day fascists, recycling ***** and human rights lawyers.

PeteBrant

Umm... Lovely. What's that got to do with the tax burden?

r32

I'm sorry I thought some one mentioned good public services?

Mitchy260

Pete..

Average UK salary is £25,000 of which the take home pay is £1,578pm. Multiply this by 12 and you have a take home pay of £18,936

£18,936/£25,000 x 100 = 75.74% giving a tax burden of 24.26% directly off of wage.

This is average Joes direct taxation purely based on his take home

Are you trying to tell us that all the other indirect taxes of VAT/council tax, car realted taxation/gas+ electricity etc only account for a further 13.24% in tax to bring it upto 37.5%?

Shall i continue to do some more maths to see how much the average 12000 miles of petrol costs in an average car, along with average heating bills, council tax bills?

Come on

PeteBrant

I'm, not saying it

Every single independant reporting authority is - I'm just repeating and providing links to independant sources. Still, I'm sure you know best

Please do.

As some pointers: VAT is 5% on heating bills. VAT on Fuel is 17.5%. Fuel duty is 50p per litre. I would struggle to agree that VAT on a plasma telly be included in the average yearly tax burden.

PeteBrant

I said there is a direct correlation between countries with leading public services and higher tax burdens, yes.

Trouble is - People here seem to think you can have world class services without investment.

PeteBrant

Heres' some help Mitchy.

Taking the average car as doing 35mpg, the total Fuel Duty cost for the year on a 12,0000 car is £779

The VAT will be approx £297 - Assuming an average price over the year of £1.09 per litre

Total fuel tax = £1,058


Average UK yearly heating bill is £580

VAT is @5% on Heating = £29

Average council tax bill is £1300. Of course this is shared - I.e. it is per household so lets divide by 2 assuming an average of 2 per household = £650


So, a total so far of £1,737

Meaning our total tax bill has gone to £7801

Giving us a 31% tax burden so far.

Some way short of the proposed 60% and we have already taken care of Fuel, heating & council tax.

PeteBrant

Just found the average electricity bill - £409 VAT@5%=£20.45

New total tax =£7,821.45
Total burden=31 and a bit%

unclebuck

not much. got quite a lot to do with Richard Littlejohn though.

Makes you proud to be world-class! | the Daily Mail

PeteBrant

Of course you could probably half the electricity, and heating tax as there will be 2 people sharing.

unclebuck

What's all this 'two people sharing' stuff? I live on my own now so I have to pay ALL the Coucil Tax and ALL the other bills. You can't make such an assumption in order to try and massage the figures in your favour.

(typical nu labour trick)

Mitchy260

£25000 salary

£6064 in taxation direct from wage.

The average car will do 35mpg and over the average 12000 miles per year, this will cost average Joe...

12000/35 = 342.86g of fuel
342.86 x 4.545 = 1558.3 litres of fuel per year.

The average cost of a litre of fuel is around 1.10 ppl

1558.3 x £1.10 = £1714.13 in fuel

Along with the fuel duty and VAT this equates to 60% in direct taxation so 60% of £1714.13 is £1028.48

Lets add that to the £6064 tax figure from above and do a little more maths

£6064+£1028 = £7092

£7092/25000 x 100 = 28.37%

Average council tax around £1500 of which shared by 2 = £750
Add on the average road tax of around £175

£7092+£750+£175 = £8,017/25,000 x 100 = 32.068%

So far we have calculated taxation on salary/council tax/road tax and fuel costs and there is 32.068% taxation showing already.

Thats before we touch VAT on household bills, gas/electric/tv/phone etc. and also before we get into the minefield of 17.5% taxation on near enough everything we buy.

I am sure we will go well beyond 37.5%

Mitchy260

Pretty much similar figures, although you have not added the average £175 road tax bill, and i havent accounted for the 5% VAT on household bills

(I also used Scottish council tax average where water and sewage are part of the tax)

Still we can agree around 32% either way for average Joe BEFORE 17.5 vat on nearly everything we buy afterwards

Granted, i dont think it will be as high as 60%, but then again i dont think it will be as low as 37.5%

Geezer

Most people don't live on their own. Trying to equate your personal circumstances to the majority of the population, typical Tory trick

Geezer

Geezer

It'a a moot point. The independent sources that work out these things will use the same rationale for all systems across the EU. So, whether we are paying 2%, 51% or 95%, we are still paying less than other EU (and world) countries.

So that said, are you surprised that our public services are not as good as other countries who pay more tax?

Geezer

Bodgit

I think you will find more and more do now. In my immediate family I have none live with someone. so thats a 5-0 ratio.

Geezer

They are still a minority though, albeit a growing one. Still, it doesn't matter which way you cut it, as a nation, we are not highly taxed in relation to some other nations.

Geezer

PeteBrant

Well If you have two people in a home, working, as many households do - then you don't both pay double the council tax or heating bill do you.

If you are single, then you get single occupancy discount on the council tax, which I haven't included.

Also your electricity , water, and gas bills are typically going to be lower and hence less tax is paid

It all evens out - this is about Mr Average.

Electricity and TV?

VAT on what household bills? 5% on heating/Electricity bills which I have factored in

People are mistakenly assuming that becase VAT is 17.5% then you can automatically add on 17.5% to your yearly tax bill. It doesn;t work like that.

And many items subject to VAT will not be regular purchases, and many that are regular will be VAT free - E.g. Most food.

we are 32% with the essentials. (assuming that a car is essential) - We still have 5% of the average income to be taken in average tax - 37.5% sounds about spot on to me - And the rest of the independant financial review bodies

PeteBrant

All of whom pay a discounted rate for thier council tax.
All of whom will have reduced "rate" costs (A single occupier will use less gas/electric/water)

It evens out.

Bodgit

Are you sure???

say all our council tax was £1500 -25% that equals £5625

If we all lived under the same roof £1500 or 3 in 1 house 2 in another £3000

We still have the same needs for rubbish, police etc.

PeteBrant

Cost to the individual in terms of versus 2 people sharing - remeber this isn;t about individual circuamstances it's the avergae tax bill

Your council tax is 25% less.

Off set against that is you will pay less VAT etc on all your utility bills and other outgoings (purely because you will use less of them)

Notwithstanding the above, A single person will probably pay more than, say, a married person in terms of tax - But the "average" person does not live alone.

Bodgit

"The next most common type of household were one-person households, which by definition is not a family. In 2004, 29 per cent of households were people living alone."


National Statistics Online

It may not be an average but it is a high proportion, for these people their tax is a large amount on their income. Just because they prefer a single lifestyle. Hardly fair is it? Why do the government seem to be trying to promote having kids by making this tax efficient.

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

Bodgit

No not twins, just know Pete likes views backed up by National statistics.

PeteBrant

I don't think its the fact that kids are promoted as such - More that there should be tax break for children (as the cost of bringing a child up is pretty high) - Things like no VAT on kids clothes etc.

But you're right of course as a percentage a single person probably pays more in tax - Is that fair? I don't know

And you are also right to point out there is a relatively high percentage of people licing alone (it actually surprised me it was that high!)

Of course "Mr Average" is someone with a quarter of a child or something like that.