unclebuck

Hydrogen power is the only way forward. The only emissions are water - thus keeping the green ******** happy:

Hydrogen economy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Big_Dan531

its a shame you cant get a van fill it will barrels hope over to fracne etc and bring it back would save you a lot of money jsut gettign caught would be the bad thing

PeteBrant

It wouldn't necessarily save you money.

Once you factor in the cost of the journey, if you are filling up with unleaded, then you will be out of pocket. Unleaded is Around 1.05p a litre in France.

Diesel is around 22% cheaper though, so you might gain there.

For petrol, the UK is comparable to France, Germany, Portugal and slightly cheaper than Finland, Holland, Belgium.

The old eastern bloc countries are the cheapes tin Europe, Estonia, Latvia etc.

lordretsudo

I work at the terminal where all the oil from the Norwegian part of the North Sea oil reserves comes in to be processed. When the plant opened in 1975, the plan was that production would last 30 years. They are now expecting another 30 years production, due to the advances in technology allowing the harder to extract oil to be reached. One of the weird things lately is that some of the gas-liquids we export (ethane, propane, isobutane, normal butane) have dropped in price a lot, to the point where it's not really worth selling them. You'd think that some use could be found for them to power cars, power stations, etc.

The thing that amazes me the most about the whole issue is that the Americans are still paying such an artificially low price for petrol. They're not going to reduce their consumption unless they start paying what the rest of the world pay, which can't be a good thing for anyone.

mart360

Popycock!!

he can drop the duty as quick as he can slap on another 2P.

halving peoples petrol bill would ease £80 a month back into the average houshold budget.

thats a real differance.!!

if banks are not allowed to add charges on top of charges, why is the govstapo allowed to tax a tax?


Petrol / diesel prices will break this government


Mart

PeteBrant

Halving the fuel duty revenue?

Blimey.

How are you going to make up the difference? I mean that money has got to be replaced from somewhere. What are you going to do? Stick up incomne tax by a penny? Increase stamp duty?

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Will be interesting to see the impact, will it get quieter, will people car share more ?

hydrogen is not the way forward, to difficult to store, the infrastructure required and the fact it evaporates off in a couple of weeks.

Methanol and other Alcohols is where its at, will run in normal petrol engines with some alteration, easy to store, can be brewed from anything organic.

Sonic'

and isnt Methanol dirt dirt cheap?

GC8

Its bout £100 for a 200 litre drum, before tax, so its not that cheap. Cost will raise as demand rises too, look at vegetable oil: 30ppl four years ago and now approaching 100ppl.....

davegtt

Thing with fuel is I dont care what they charge for it, if I need to get somewhere within a 7 mile radius I will cycle, walk or taxi it. saves me a fortune every month, now if I need to go further its the only time I need a car, but the cost of insurance/tax/MOT puts me off keeping a car for that once a month I need to leave town. Saying that, car hire for something half reasonable is only £25 a day so I dont see the fuss

stilover

But they're getting an extra £120 Million Plus every week from the Oil price rise. Why can't they give this back to ease Petrol prices. Afterall they hadn't budgeted on this extra money, so they don't need to tax elsewhere to get it back.

PeteBrant

Well like I said, thats where the sliding VAT scale comes in.

And while we're are on the subject. Where are all these ridiculous fugures of VAT take coming from?

TOTAL take from fuel per year is around £24Billion.

£120Million per day *extra* would equal £43.8 Billion - Which is obviously wrong.

It's probably something mor elike £12Million per day more - givng around a £4billion boost (which yes, could conceivably be passed back to the public).

THe problem,with that is this.

If you start sliding the VAT scale, then it can go the other way. When oil gets cheapaer, the government can turn around and say "Well hang on, we were charging you 5% VAT when it was $150 a barrel - Now thats it's $75, we'll charge you 25%VAT."

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

I can't see oil prices dropping any time soon though

stilover

That's why I said a week.

I aggree with the sliding VAT rule you talk about. If they say the highest we will allow it to go is £1.00/litre and reduce VAT to suit. But also cap the amount of VAT they can charge if oil goes down. No more that 17.5% as current

PeteBrant

Well no - It all depends on he dollar and the end to the credit crunch.

Oops! Sorry!
I'll have you munching lentils yet


Seriously though - Yes, if you set a figure and say "right this is the number we need. In other words - At beginning of the year, you estimated you needed £23Billion from Fuel.

You don't need any more than that, that's what your budget requires. If you get significantly more thna that as a result of oil price rises, then adjust the VAT so that your budget plan is correct.

It all goes into the same pot at the end of the day.

coolangatta

An interesting view

Industry, from production to transport to storage and usage manages to handle hydrogen in huge volumes on a daily basis.
Do you imagine the infrastructure for the production, transport and distribution of petrol happened over night?
Hydrogen, although very light, only 'evaporates off' if you allow it to do so.
The only real problem with hydrogen at the present time is that the production process is considered 'dirty'.
When we embrace nuclear energy, as ultimately we will have to, high temperature reactors will be developed which, as a by product of electricity production, will crack water and produce clean hydrogen too.

daves2rs

There's a good few years left in the North Sea with plenty of oil coming out The North Sea produces thinner crude oil which does go direct to other countries but we also import thicker crude to give our best matches here in the UK.

I do fear that our petrolhead days are coming to an end and we should make the most if it now

stilover

I may have aggreed with you once or twice before, but I'm trying not to make a habbit out of it.

It's always painfull agreeing with you.

Ringpeas

We have been spoilt with "free" energy from the ground for a long time now, but that is going to change soon.
I think that whatever we change to there will be a massive cost to setting up the infastructure, which we will have to pay for.
I can't see bio fuels ever being a major contribution, there simply isn't enough land to grow it.
Nuclear and renewables are the only solution I can see, perhaps backed up by coal for another 20 years?

How many Watts will your car have?

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Yes, key think is industry, not the public, its volatile stuff and I am only going on what I have read, it is used extensively in Industry but it doesnt seem like the storage lends itself to smaller scale applications.

I am with you on the nuclear thing,The company I work for want to recruit 700 Nuclear bods for their Nuclear arm, so its taking off again.

Its going to be a difficult transition...

greenonedave

There are plenty of oil fields that have never been exploited purely down to extraction cost, once the price of oil reaches a certain level these oil fields will be commercially viable to drill ( the one that springs to mind are right next to the Falkland Islands ) oil is not running out that quickly, the price we pay in the UK is greatly inflated by the various taxes that are placed on the product, The price of fuel in this country is painfull ONLY because of the taxation