GlesgaKiss

That is a good point right there. Anyone who believes these CO2 emissions figures they blab on about need their head seeing to.

Of course the climate is changing...it changes over hundreds, and thousands of years. The government uses warmer climates to rob everyone of their hard earned cash, and to suck up to the EU(utter bullsh*t).

The media meanwhile, use this as a never ending source of stories to sell their papers. I mean, what can be better than climate change due to "pollution"? Its one story that is never going to end and they can just keep broadcasting over and over again, backed up of course by the government muppets. The majority just follow the media like sheep, which is fair enough, because if something is in your face constantly you are going to start believing it.

You get all these stats constanly thrown at you - 4,000,000 kg's CO2 etc etc - But no one ever bothers to explain AND PROVE, exactly what these figures are doing to the planet. For all we know, the earth can handle most, if not all of our emissions.

So basically what i'm saying, is that the goverment and media are in a beneficial partnership with each other and the whole thing is a big f*ckin con.

All IMHO of course, and I'm pretty cynical.

Alan

scoobynutta555

Nobody is denying that it's a tax. Was done from 2001 because that's when manufacturers were required to publish co2 figs. If the gov't were solely doing this for tax raising purposes why would they leave out older car, doesn't make sense. I do think they will get round to older cars sooner or ater.

FlightMan

Yeah, and of course, they couldn't calculate CO2 figures for pre 2001 cars could they? Doing it to 2001 gives them the tax take they need, for now. When things get worse, like all taxes, it will be extended.

greenonedave

Can any body explain to me as the UK only produces max of 2% of the worlds CO2 ,we are being taxed more than anybody else, surely if these are green taxes then China and USA would have larger taxes related to their outputs.
Me thinks we are being conned under the label of being green !

Removed.

I'm just glad I don't live on the "Mainland". As an outsider, with only limited interest in English politics, it does seem that road users are being hit hard by rising oil costs, increasing duty, VED (Road tax as was???), Congestion charges, enforcement cameras, the green lobby, the list seems to grow and grow. It doesn't surprise me that it causes such a heated debate. And the issue also seems to be growing in other parts of Europe. In a way, we've only got ourselves to blame, as we've become so dependant on road transport, but that is a choice we've made. As someone else has pointed out it's taken 50 years to get this far, and sadly will take years to change our attitudes. Look at the smoking issue, how long has that rumbled on.

Rightly or wrongly, "Polluter Pays" is the way things are being done. However, it will take a serious public backlash to force any big changes. Yes it does seem unfair, and saying that people should of seen it coming doesn't really help. Nor does the **** you Jack, I'm OK attitude, that is designed to get peoples back up. The only power you really have to force change is either revolution/disorder, sorry but not the right thing as far as I'm concerned, or the ballot box. Although that maybe a case of frying pan and fire.

Oh, and by the way, the cost of diesel has nearly doubled over here recently, and petrol went up by around 50%, to make up for scrapping road tax at around £130 for a 07 WRX per annum.

TheHappyAngler

Phew i hoped that, that was the point you were driving at

scoobynutta555

I just provided you the answer as to why it's initially to 2001. Again, if they wanted to they could have charged £450 for every car over a 1.6 litre engine and made before 2001, but they haven't as yet. If it was a true tax grab, and tax grab alone then this was an easy opportunity to hike those taxes, but they haven't.

FWIW I think much lobbying over this new system being unfair blah blah blah, they will just introduce it for pre 2001 and make everyone else suffer. How would it be unfair then, and how much more tax they'd make, in fact I'm surprised they haven't done it. Why not do it if you know you're not going to be voted in again at the next election. At least you'd leave office spouting that you've made the environment a better place, even if this is a fallacy.

Alas, the hard done by mob would have their unfair argument taken from them in on fell swoop.

TheHappyAngler

Quite simple, like most people in positions of power, they want to remain in that position. Therefore shooting yourself in the foot no matter how dire the situation maybe, isn't usually an option.

However on the tax front there are 2 ways they could have gone about this:

1) Go for the blanket increase of tax on cars pre 2001 in addition to those already hit. Wait for the back lash, reposition their policies, and then go to the taxation play that we face now. Now strategically this is only a one shot deal, in the fact that you don't have scope to increase your taxation on older cars as you have already conceded your position.

2) The one i believe that they considered the better of the 2 options. Implement a taxation rise to cars back to 2001, ride the public criticism, wait for it blow over. Then at a later date come back with an increase in tax on older cars (<2001), any criticism can then be deflected by pointing out how effective on "green" issues the previous tax increase has been.

Sit back and enjoy the increase in money coming in.

scoobynutta555

If it's quite obvious come election time they won't be voted in (which seems to be the case) then I see no reason why they wouldn't implement higher taxes on older cars sooner rather than later, they'd have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

What might happen next year, as a sop to post 2001 cars, you'll see £150 reduced from the £450ish (post 2001 cars in 2010) proposed with a couple more years stepped increases while pre 2001 cars will have the balance of the tax applied to their cars going up each year with fair warning this'll increase year on year. Can't really understand why they didn't do this in the first place, emission figs or not pre 2001.

Removed.

I'm just glad I don't live on the "Mainland". As an outsider, with only limited interest in English politics, it does seem that road users are being hit hard by rising oil costs, increasing duty, VED (Road tax as was???), Congestion charges, enforcement cameras, the green lobby, the list seems to grow and grow. It doesn't surprise me that it causes such a heated debate. And the issue also seems to be growing in other parts of Europe. In a way, we've only got ourselves to blame, as we've become so dependant on road transport, but that is a choice we've made. As someone else has pointed out it's taken 50 years to get this far, and sadly will take years to change our attitudes. Look at the smoking issue, how long has that rumbled on.

Rightly or wrongly, "Polluter Pays" is the way things are being done. However, it will take a serious public backlash to force any big changes. Yes it does seem unfair, and saying that people should of seen it coming doesn't really help. Nor does the **** you Jack, I'm OK attitude, that is designed to get peoples back up. The only power you really have to force change is either revolution/disorder, sorry but not the right thing as far as I'm concerned, or the ballot box. Although that maybe a case of frying pan and fire.

Oh, and by the way, the cost of diesel has nearly doubled over here recently, and petrol went up by around 50%, to make up for scrapping road tax at around £130 for a 07 WRX per annum.

warrenm2

Well quite. All this tax is moot if the underlying justification is false. See Stop the CO2 scare, before it's too late - Telegraph and the report it mentions http://www.sepp.org/publications/NIPCC-Feb%2020.pdf. Also Watch the web for climate change truths - Telegraph

john banks

Cayenne Turbos are looking really good value... look on Pistonheads and Autotrader. Lots of great metal if you can afford the petrol costs, the tax is small in comparison. I don't like retrospective taxation though.

lozgti

I have to say,I really think people are finally seeing through the green brainwashing.Thank gawd.

Not so long ago it was aerosols ruining the ozone layer but that seems to have been forgotten.

As for this disgusting retrospective tax,I have told my wife I am very tempted to buy a pre 2001Rolls Royce to cart the kids around or a John Deere .

PeteBrant

CFCs were abslutely positvely scientfically proven to be eating the ozone layer, and the reason why it is not big news anymore it because CFCs have been banned and the ozone is repeairing itself.

Dream Weaver

The lower band VED tends to be applied to low emission cars, and anything worth having with low emissions (i.e. that can pull more than a feather in weight) is diesel.

Look at how much diesel has increased in price recently!!! Give with one hadn, and take with the other. Its OK having lower VED for diesels, but then shoving the price up of buying the bloody stuff by 30% in 1 year is silly!!

NACRO

Think I just found my next 'station' car. Not the turbo but a V8 S for 15 grand? That's peanuts.
Just goes to show there is an upside to increased petrol costs (particularly if you have a fuel card like I do) and the proposed tax increases.

NACRO

The government has nothing whatsoever to do with the 30% price increase you talk of.

Dream Weaver

Believe that if you like.

NACRO

It's not a case of 'believing it if I like' it's a fact.

Sometimes I wish people would bother informing themselves before commenting then I consider what impression they give of themselves by not bothering and am glad they didn't.

GlesgaKiss

Those articles are very interesting reads. Again, the other side of the story is one that you hardly ever hear...and its only when looking for them that you find anything. The problem is how to get that case across if nobody is listening?

Alan

warrenm2

Reality comes along and kicks the *** of ridiculous notions (like socailism), and King Canute like, the believers in fantasies get drowned. Unfortunately, sometimes the process needs a helping hand....

scoobynutta555

Depends on what you class as worth having. A Brabus Smart coupe will be £90 tax pa while an Elise will be £175 pa. Something that could pull more than a feather is always going to be a diesel.

I'm sure there are more but I can't be bothered looking

Dream Weaver

I couldn't give a **** what impression I give to you tbh

I class neither of them as worth having as I would really struggle to get a child seat in either of them

NACRO

That's wonderful, however I was commenting on the impression you would give to anybody who was even the slightest bit informed on the subject rather than my own personal opinion of exactly what you are.

scoobynutta555

Child seat easy in a Lotus, can even fold a Quinny in the boot

Dream Weaver

And where does the Mrs sit?

scoobynutta555

Not very imaginative are ya?