PeteBrant

No it isn't.

PeteBrant

That not the reason for the recent rises, though.

Fuel duty is the same as it was last year, and VAT on fuel has risen by around 3 pence, due to the rise in the cost of oil.

The reason for the rises in fuel are is the cost of oil, not fuel duty, as that is a fixed sum and not a percentage.

Spyder550

Yes it is, if you think it isn't can we all send you an invoice for the tax and you pay it for us

PeteBrant

The reasons for the recent rises are not down to rises in Fuel Duty/VAT.

Spyder550

Youv'e already said 3p of it is

PeteBrant

Its gone up a bit more than 3p in the last 12 months, wouldn't you say?

PeteBrant

Course they would.

We have always paid tax on fuel. We compare more or less with Europe with fuel taxation levels

If you were used to paying 50p for petrol, and it went up to 70p within a few months - You would be up in arms about it.

Why do you think the Yanks are doing thier nut atgoing over $3.00 a gallon?


Its not the actual amount that causes the pain, its the sharp rise.

Leslie

Do you really believe that taking such a defeatist attitude will prevent even worse liberties being taken by the authorities in the future?

That is not the British way and never has been in the past. These creepy self seekers need to be told that we will not stand for what they are doing and it will come to a head at the ballot box eventually, which is when they can kiss their sinecures goodbye.

Les

SwissTony

iTrader: (19)

agree with those sentiments. As british, we just dont do the kind of blockades and riots that the french do, but when pushed enough, I think that history shows we can come out fighting. Trouble is, nowadays our sense of justice has been whittled down to a point where apathy is more common. It is a shame.

Paul3446

How much would a litre of petrol cost if there was no fuel tax or VAT on it?

Once you work out this figure you can say whether fuel is expensive because of Gordon's taxes.

This is easier than keep saying yes it is, no it isn't! etc.

Spyder550

Fuel Tax - PetrolPrices.com

Working on £1.20 a litre, if you use the low sulphur unleaded example of 50.35p a litre fuel tax, that would mean the remaining 70p or so would be down to the petrol companies and VAT. VAT out of that 70p would be about 10-11p

So I would say its about 50% fuel companies and 50% tax without calculating to decimal places

Paul3446

So if I'm paying currently about 1.12p a litre, if 50p of that is fuel tax, that brings it down to 62p a litre, then take off VAT about 11p, that makes the price of petrol 51p a litre, even after all the massive rises in oil prices.

Given that the price of oil has more than doubled recently, I'd say the fact that petrol is still only 51p a litre is fairly conclusive proof that it is because of taxes that prices are so high!

boomer

...but isn't VAT charges on the full cost plus duty, and not just the cost of materials, delivery and profit (i.e. a tax on a tax!!!!)??

So you can probably double your 10-11p!!

mb

boomer

Oh, and Broon doubled the tax on the profits that oil companies made a few years ago, so there is even more tax on the "materials" that you need to take into account!

mb

Paul3446

Quote:
"...but isn't VAT charges on the full cost plus duty, and not just the cost of materials, delivery and profit (i.e. a tax on a tax!!!!)??

So you can probably double your 10-11p!!

mb "


Good point, so if we make it 20p in VAT, then we'd only be paying 41p a litre for petrol if all duty was scrapped.

I challenge even PeteBrant to say this is all the fault of the oil companies!

PeteBrant

The VAT is calculated on the toal - Not just the remaining 70p.

(in other words, VAT on fuel is taxing tax)

We know the fuel price was substantially lower this time last year - And we did not have the outrage we have now. In that time, Fuel Duty has remained the same, as has the VAT rate.

It is the Oil price that have caused the rise.

PeteBrant

If my Auntie had bollocks she'd be my Uncle.

Its pointless to say "if fuel duty was scrapped" becasue its never ever going to happen.

Of course the tax has an impact on the price, it would be silly to say it doesn't - What it has not has an effect on is the recent rises in the fuel prices, which is what the claim was.

Spyder550

So 17.5% of the rise isn't tax

PeteBrant

This is a ridiculous thing to say - Labour did not invent fuel duty - They did not invent VAT on fuel.

coolangatta

OK Rambo, how exactly are you going to fight, and win, on behalf of all 'us French like cowards'.
I'm all for taking on even a remotely winnable battle (no French in me), but against an enemy that you and your like provided with it's overwhelming strength (i.e. a mandate to govern) then how are you going to reduce the odds against you?
Face it! Without a better/more reasoned plan than blockades and sudo riots, you're beaten before you start. Get smart or get nothing!

PeteBrant

Of course it is - But its 17.5%.

I.e. 82.5% isn't - ie.e For all intents an purposes the rise is down to the price of oil

If the price of oil hadn;t gone up, then the VAT take wouldn thave gone up.

PeteBrant

Good grief.


Its like having Neville Chamberlain in the room

PeteBrant

Remind me. Who was it that introduced VAT on the basic need to heat your home and cook your food?

coolangatta

I'm not a defeatist nor am I familiar with others taking liberties. However, as my Mum would tell you while wagging a finger, you get what you deserve. Go ahead and vote out 'this lot' and vote in 'the next lot' see where it gets you The sinecures are much the same.

PeteBrant

TO be fair, the threat of being voted out, is the reason why a discussion on a change to the plans for VED rates is even being thought about.

Paul3446

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul3446
Good point, so if we make it 20p in VAT, then we'd only be paying 41p a litre for petrol if all duty was scrapped.

If my Auntie had bollocks she'd be my Uncle.

Its pointless to say "if fuel duty was scrapped" becasue its never ever going to happen.


Yes we all know that, but we're pointing out that the government is lying when they blame high fuel costs at the door of the oil companies. The plain facts are that with oil prices at a ridiculously, never seen before, high price, petrol only costs 41p a litre!

How can you defend their position on this?