Where do you draw the line with family wrong doing?
31 May 2008, 08:51 PM
#31
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FFS, sorry but I'd be round banging on the door and giving her the" WHAT THE **** DO YOU THINK YOU'RE PLAYING AT, GET ROUND AND SEE MUM< YOU SELFISH ******* BITCH, SHE'S DYEING FOR ***** SAKE"
Would be a kill or cure moment
But hey, I was never one for tact.
Would be a kill or cure moment
But hey, I was never one for tact.
31 May 2008, 08:59 PM
#32
Also known as daz
Tell your sister to start growing up and face responsibility, avoiding the issue will only make it worse further down the line.
Personally snaz id just blank her out and concentrate on making my mum happy.
Personally snaz id just blank her out and concentrate on making my mum happy.
31 May 2008, 09:04 PM
#33
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Thing is the 2 things go hand in hand. Seeing her would make mum happy. So I cant just shut the door.
Her replies are becoming a little more sensible now, and she is "suggesting" that she will make an effort. However I want to see it happen before hoping that I have got the message across to her. Lets see eh.
31 May 2008, 09:19 PM
#34
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Right, here goes....
She says she has not told the kids because mum told her not to. (didnt listen to mum about smoking, drinking, or *******, but has this time!)
Says its because of the kids she does not come round, as mum said she dont want them seeing her ill, and they are too much of a handful when they come round.
Considering they are 12 and 10, I think its about time they learnt to behave, and spent some quality time here, maybe learnt to help nan out around the house.
its not going to be easy for them to get to grips with. But as soon as mum sees them behaving, she will come round to it. Trying to explain to my sister now that sometimes you have to go against the grain and just do what you think is right. And if she thinks being here is right... DO IT!
And through cometh the colours of truth............
I suggested that the kids just need to stop screaming and shouting, running about and fighting, and not jump all over my mum..... Not hard IMO for kids of their age. However this is where the true parenting skills come into it. Her reply was...
"I wish they didnt do those things, but they do, thats just the way it is"
So she is saying she will come round "in short bursts" Not sure if thats better for her or mum... Hmmm
She says she has not told the kids because mum told her not to. (didnt listen to mum about smoking, drinking, or *******, but has this time!)
Says its because of the kids she does not come round, as mum said she dont want them seeing her ill, and they are too much of a handful when they come round.
Considering they are 12 and 10, I think its about time they learnt to behave, and spent some quality time here, maybe learnt to help nan out around the house.
its not going to be easy for them to get to grips with. But as soon as mum sees them behaving, she will come round to it. Trying to explain to my sister now that sometimes you have to go against the grain and just do what you think is right. And if she thinks being here is right... DO IT!
And through cometh the colours of truth............
I suggested that the kids just need to stop screaming and shouting, running about and fighting, and not jump all over my mum..... Not hard IMO for kids of their age. However this is where the true parenting skills come into it. Her reply was...
"I wish they didnt do those things, but they do, thats just the way it is"
So she is saying she will come round "in short bursts" Not sure if thats better for her or mum... Hmmm
Last edited by Snazy; 31 May 2008 at 09:24 PM.
31 May 2008, 09:27 PM
#35
Snazy, I really hope somehow you can make her see sense here, and not only play her part in helping your Mam through this, but to also get her to a point where she is not the center of her life all of the time, but that others need her, as much as she may well need them down the line, before it's too late.
As you may remember, I'm going through a very similar experience, only it's me by my Mam's side, and my brother who has nothing to do with her. To be honest, there were issues with them before her cancer, but alot of them were again down to him being a selfish ****, but it is really difficult to get my head round the lack of support, help or even love from him since her illness. He did the odd 'duty' visit while she was in hospital after her operation, the one that topped it all was when he came in uniform (I know him enough to know that was an attention thing, not because he was unable to change first). When she came home, one quick visit, and that was the last time he bothered with her. I think he's of the mind, that she's had treatment, so that's all over now, it's not that simple.
Anyhow, I digress, plus I'm getting mad typing now, not just for myself, but for such a similar experience you are going through. I don't really know a solution other than the way you are going, particularly because I don't know your sister, or whether she is just really selfish and self obsessed, or because she doesn't know how to deal with this (it can often be easy to deal with other people, but incredibly hard to face when it's one so close).
I've pretty much given up with my brother, he is selfish, always has been always will be, and I'm tired of all of it. One thing I'll say, is in his own circles, I would put money on the likelihood he milked it, his emotional state being so worried about Mam, shame if he really felt like that, he couldn't be bothered to be there for her a little bit.
As you may remember, I'm going through a very similar experience, only it's me by my Mam's side, and my brother who has nothing to do with her. To be honest, there were issues with them before her cancer, but alot of them were again down to him being a selfish ****, but it is really difficult to get my head round the lack of support, help or even love from him since her illness. He did the odd 'duty' visit while she was in hospital after her operation, the one that topped it all was when he came in uniform (I know him enough to know that was an attention thing, not because he was unable to change first). When she came home, one quick visit, and that was the last time he bothered with her. I think he's of the mind, that she's had treatment, so that's all over now, it's not that simple.
Anyhow, I digress, plus I'm getting mad typing now, not just for myself, but for such a similar experience you are going through. I don't really know a solution other than the way you are going, particularly because I don't know your sister, or whether she is just really selfish and self obsessed, or because she doesn't know how to deal with this (it can often be easy to deal with other people, but incredibly hard to face when it's one so close).
I've pretty much given up with my brother, he is selfish, always has been always will be, and I'm tired of all of it. One thing I'll say, is in his own circles, I would put money on the likelihood he milked it, his emotional state being so worried about Mam, shame if he really felt like that, he couldn't be bothered to be there for her a little bit.
31 May 2008, 09:31 PM
#36
Also known as daz
Well at least she is.
Trouble with kids isn't it, you can't lay a finger on them yet they need some sort of discipline, they are at that age where they would just rebel, how about she offloads them to a friend or relative perhaps?
How about she separate the kids for a while, im willing to bet they'd go very quiet when not with each other.
But give it time and see what your sister does, you could try the guilt trip, say for instance if you take your mum somewhere invite the sister along and leave it at that, sooner or later she's bound to make a showing as she'll feel she's missing out.
Trouble with kids isn't it, you can't lay a finger on them yet they need some sort of discipline, they are at that age where they would just rebel, how about she offloads them to a friend or relative perhaps?
How about she separate the kids for a while, im willing to bet they'd go very quiet when not with each other.
But give it time and see what your sister does, you could try the guilt trip, say for instance if you take your mum somewhere invite the sister along and leave it at that, sooner or later she's bound to make a showing as she'll feel she's missing out.
31 May 2008, 09:41 PM
#37
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Not sure what it is with her. She is a lost sheep really. Seems to only ever follow peoples examples and ideas, and never be a trend setter. Seems to always need people to tell her what to do. But then rebel's and makes the idea her own.
Maybe thats why she needs this attempt of a kick.
She is very weak minded though and gives into any challenges. Her daughter was struggling at school. The suggestion was made that she was special needs and needed a tutor. Based on her being premature, one "specialist" deicded she might be brain damaged. The next day it was written in stone, and in her opinion Daryl was brain damaged and special needs.
A year or so later of a little attention and motivation (some from me) she is doing blinding at school and very much a lil miss.
But thats my sister all over.
She is now telling me that she cant control the kids, and I could not handle them if I tried to look after them..... Haha, she has to be kiddin.
Maybe thats why she needs this attempt of a kick.
She is very weak minded though and gives into any challenges. Her daughter was struggling at school. The suggestion was made that she was special needs and needed a tutor. Based on her being premature, one "specialist" deicded she might be brain damaged. The next day it was written in stone, and in her opinion Daryl was brain damaged and special needs.
A year or so later of a little attention and motivation (some from me) she is doing blinding at school and very much a lil miss.
But thats my sister all over.
She is now telling me that she cant control the kids, and I could not handle them if I tried to look after them..... Haha, she has to be kiddin.
31 May 2008, 09:47 PM
#38
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Well at least she is.
Trouble with kids isn't it, you can't lay a finger on them yet they need some sort of discipline, they are at that age where they would just rebel, how about she offloads them to a friend or relative perhaps?
How about she separate the kids for a while, im willing to bet they'd go very quiet when not with each other.
But give it time and see what your sister does, you could try the guilt trip, say for instance if you take your mum somewhere invite the sister along and leave it at that, sooner or later she's bound to make a showing as she'll feel she's missing out.
Trouble with kids isn't it, you can't lay a finger on them yet they need some sort of discipline, they are at that age where they would just rebel, how about she offloads them to a friend or relative perhaps?
How about she separate the kids for a while, im willing to bet they'd go very quiet when not with each other.
But give it time and see what your sister does, you could try the guilt trip, say for instance if you take your mum somewhere invite the sister along and leave it at that, sooner or later she's bound to make a showing as she'll feel she's missing out.
Serious though, they go very quiet with me as they know I wont tolorate bad behaviour. However she insists when they misbehave for her, they are just being kids. And its not her letting them get away with it.... I disagree.
Might offer to have them for the day while she spends some quality time with mum. Might see if when mum gets better from the drugs if she fancies having her hair done etc
31 May 2008, 10:31 PM
#39
Also known as daz
Or how about a pint and a meal somewhere make a day of it' least you will all be together.
As for being a lost sheep, well that's just a sign of the times, only when you stop asking what to do with your life do you start to find your path so to speak.
Either way best of luck, don't let her grind things down even if it means discounting her a bit, it's her own choice afterall.
As for being a lost sheep, well that's just a sign of the times, only when you stop asking what to do with your life do you start to find your path so to speak.
Either way best of luck, don't let her grind things down even if it means discounting her a bit, it's her own choice afterall.
31 May 2008, 10:37 PM
#40
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lol I dont drink and dont like my sister after she has. Mum cant get out the house either.
She has point blank refused to let me take the kids so she can spend time with mum. Insists popping in quickly is the best way, and that the kids dont need to learn some respect and how to behave.
Aaah well, here comes the double bluff and her excuses.
She has point blank refused to let me take the kids so she can spend time with mum. Insists popping in quickly is the best way, and that the kids dont need to learn some respect and how to behave.
Aaah well, here comes the double bluff and her excuses.
31 May 2008, 10:46 PM
#41
You deserve better than this mate, I dont know you but based on how you post you have a lot more about you than your sibling who sounds feckless, I appreciate she is your sister and I dont want to slag her off but her excuses are lame.
I am sure your mum would love to see her grandkids even if they behave badly, as for seeing her ill, to be honest I remember being a kid and being told stuff about death and illness, pets mainly but I think kids handle it better than adults. I dont beleive in telling them stories, they understand, spare them some of the details perhaps, they need to learn the cycle of life, I think the way we isolate them and mollycoddle them today is turning them into the monsters we are seeing stab each other, no concept of life, death, empathy, cause, effect or responsibility.
What is your sister going to do, say nothing is wrong ?
I am sure your mum would love to see her grandkids even if they behave badly, as for seeing her ill, to be honest I remember being a kid and being told stuff about death and illness, pets mainly but I think kids handle it better than adults. I dont beleive in telling them stories, they understand, spare them some of the details perhaps, they need to learn the cycle of life, I think the way we isolate them and mollycoddle them today is turning them into the monsters we are seeing stab each other, no concept of life, death, empathy, cause, effect or responsibility.
What is your sister going to do, say nothing is wrong ?
01 June 2008, 10:02 AM
#42
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J4CKO, thanks mate I like to think I try to make things as good as I can in all walks of life As for slagging her off, go for it. I do it lol.
Yeah I reckon behind the mask she would love to see them too, she just puts on a front and says things she does not always mean.
Sadly at the moment there is one grandchild, one with manners and a good up bringing (certainly in the earlier years) that she cant see right now, and thats my daughter. Something I am yet to resolve.
But as for the other 2, they are lovely kids, but feed off the weakness of my sister.
She insists they are usually really good, but always seem to misbehave when they come round, and says sadly there is nothing you can do about it, they are just being kids.
Her son crys at the drop of a pin (because mummy mollycoddles him) and her daughter is at that rebelling stage after years of being ignored and pushed to one side. So there is a bad mix there.
I offered to take them out for the day, to which she has point blank refused to let me. The suggestion was to allow her a day to spend with mum, actually talk things over and get up to speed on whats going on with her. However she feels that short visits is the answer, with the kids there, making the situation to talk very awkward.
So after some positive responses, it now appears it was 90% hot air.
Now the tangle of "I will see what work say" and other such excuses, the promise to make an effort and to come round asap and more is drifting away.
I could critisize the way she brings the kids up over and over, but at the end of the day its her choice, I just pity the kids really.
Is this all to back up her coping mechanism..?
To be honest, thinking about it, there is a hell of a lot of selfish behaviour there, and there has been for years.
My sister works at a school so her hours almost mirror that of the kids.
However if she has to stay behind a bit, she will ask mum to look after the kids. Then show up 4 hours later at 8 in the evening, leaving mum to cook for the kids (at her expense) and keep them entertained.
She chose a secondary school for her daughter 6 miles away, drops her there in the mornings, but asked my mum to collect her "for the first few weeks". Sadly this turned into almost the first year.
In addition to this, she failed for 6 months to get her daughter an Oyster card, so my mum had to pay Daryl's bus fare home every day. The fact my mum is old, frail and 70 didnt seem to bother Paula. Almost bullying her into collecting Daryl, getting on buses full of roudy school kids. Great place for mum to be!
All this is BEFORE the word cancer was ever mentioned.
Bringing the kids round each afternoon so they could have their tea here (at mum's expense) then going home. She has never tried to get them into the routine of helping out.
In my books, when they come round they should be making a habit of doing a bit of cleaning, tidying for nanny, then having some food. Thats how I was brought up, look after your elder family members WITHOUT being asked.
Instead they would come round, make a mess, leave toys, games and other things laying about, eat, and leave. Sister never tried to make them tidy their mess...
So coping mechanism or selfish.... Possibly a combination of the two, but there is definatly selfishness there.
I like to think I try to make things as good as I can in all walks of life As for slagging her off, go for it. I do it lol.Yeah I reckon behind the mask she would love to see them too, she just puts on a front and says things she does not always mean.
Sadly at the moment there is one grandchild, one with manners and a good up bringing (certainly in the earlier years) that she cant see right now, and thats my daughter. Something I am yet to resolve.
But as for the other 2, they are lovely kids, but feed off the weakness of my sister.
She insists they are usually really good, but always seem to misbehave when they come round, and says sadly there is nothing you can do about it, they are just being kids.
Her son crys at the drop of a pin (because mummy mollycoddles him) and her daughter is at that rebelling stage after years of being ignored and pushed to one side. So there is a bad mix there.
I offered to take them out for the day, to which she has point blank refused to let me. The suggestion was to allow her a day to spend with mum, actually talk things over and get up to speed on whats going on with her. However she feels that short visits is the answer, with the kids there, making the situation to talk very awkward.
So after some positive responses, it now appears it was 90% hot air.
Now the tangle of "I will see what work say" and other such excuses, the promise to make an effort and to come round asap and more is drifting away.
I could critisize the way she brings the kids up over and over, but at the end of the day its her choice, I just pity the kids really.
Is this all to back up her coping mechanism..?
To be honest, thinking about it, there is a hell of a lot of selfish behaviour there, and there has been for years.
My sister works at a school so her hours almost mirror that of the kids.
However if she has to stay behind a bit, she will ask mum to look after the kids. Then show up 4 hours later at 8 in the evening, leaving mum to cook for the kids (at her expense) and keep them entertained.
She chose a secondary school for her daughter 6 miles away, drops her there in the mornings, but asked my mum to collect her "for the first few weeks". Sadly this turned into almost the first year.
In addition to this, she failed for 6 months to get her daughter an Oyster card, so my mum had to pay Daryl's bus fare home every day. The fact my mum is old, frail and 70 didnt seem to bother Paula. Almost bullying her into collecting Daryl, getting on buses full of roudy school kids. Great place for mum to be!
All this is BEFORE the word cancer was ever mentioned.
Bringing the kids round each afternoon so they could have their tea here (at mum's expense) then going home. She has never tried to get them into the routine of helping out.
In my books, when they come round they should be making a habit of doing a bit of cleaning, tidying for nanny, then having some food. Thats how I was brought up, look after your elder family members WITHOUT being asked.
Instead they would come round, make a mess, leave toys, games and other things laying about, eat, and leave. Sister never tried to make them tidy their mess...
So coping mechanism or selfish.... Possibly a combination of the two, but there is definatly selfishness there.
01 June 2008, 10:12 AM
#43
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Too little too late by the looks of it snaz. 
A leopard can't change it's spots no matter how you decide to approach the situation.
If she wont / cant / does not want to go and see mum and she does pass away before the rift is fixed, it will be HER that has to deal with it and I wouldn't worry about her any longer... you did your best.
She's made her bed and her kids by the look of it, no I suppose all she can do is lie in it.
A leopard can't change it's spots no matter how you decide to approach the situation.
If she wont / cant / does not want to go and see mum and she does pass away before the rift is fixed, it will be HER that has to deal with it and I wouldn't worry about her any longer... you did your best.
She's made her bed and her kids by the look of it, no I suppose all she can do is lie in it.
01 June 2008, 10:20 AM
#44
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Too little too late by the looks of it snaz.
A leopard can't change it's spots no matter how you decide to approach the situation.
If she wont / cant / does not want to go and see mum and she does pass away before the rift is fixed, it will be HER that has to deal with it and I wouldn't worry about her any longer... you did your best.
She's made her bed and her kids by the look of it, no I suppose all she can do is lie in it.
A leopard can't change it's spots no matter how you decide to approach the situation.
If she wont / cant / does not want to go and see mum and she does pass away before the rift is fixed, it will be HER that has to deal with it and I wouldn't worry about her any longer... you did your best.
She's made her bed and her kids by the look of it, no I suppose all she can do is lie in it.
I would like to think that she will call mum in a while, see if she needs anything from the shops, and pop round to see if she needs any washing doing, some food etc.
She dont need any of the above, as I have done it all, but the offer would be nice.... for us both!
I cant think of anything she has done recently that can be considered an act of kindness. Other than fill mum with false hope re the chemo, telling her about these amazing cures they have, only for my mum to be told again that the chemo she is no is not for life saving purposes, but for comfort more than anything. Pop, went the bubble!
Im gonna make it clear to my sister when we are in hospital next, so she has every opportunity to come along. Lets see what happens there. Thats on the 21st. Im going to set up a webcam also, so I can speak to mum face to face daily while im away.
01 June 2008, 10:32 AM
#45
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Your sister is being totally selfish of coursae Snazy, and she needs telling about it face to face in such a way that she cannot avoid it. There is no excuse for that sort of behaviour and she deserves no sympathy. When a relative, particularly a parent is in such a situation, it is vital that the children support them in every way possible with no though for personal inconveniences. If my sister was to behave like that and took no notice of what I said, as far as I am concerned she would not be worth further consideration. I wish you luck over all that and my best wishes for your mother.
Les
Les
01 June 2008, 11:12 AM
#47
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Sorry to mention this but how do you think your sister would react if she was written out of the will - or left less than you? Very angry and hurt I bet!
The image I have built up on your sister I can see things getting quite ugly later on in this process...
Snazy I hope you have wife/girlfriend plenty of friends to support you mate as it sounds like you have much on your plate. You're getting plenty of support off this site for starters!
Your mother is very lucky to have you around.
Take care
Nick
The image I have built up on your sister I can see things getting quite ugly later on in this process...
Snazy I hope you have wife/girlfriend plenty of friends to support you mate as it sounds like you have much on your plate. You're getting plenty of support off this site for starters!
Your mother is very lucky to have you around.
Take care
Nick
01 June 2008, 11:52 AM
#48
Snazy,
don't know if you do this already, but stop texting her and go around and talk to her. As Leslie says, it's so much easier to ignore something when it's just a text message.
It will be harder for you as well, especially as you have to really concentrate to say the things you want to say without you and her getting angry with each other and it all ending up in a shouting match, but in my experience, it's a superior mode of communication, especially with difficult subjects
don't know if you do this already, but stop texting her and go around and talk to her. As Leslie says, it's so much easier to ignore something when it's just a text message.
It will be harder for you as well, especially as you have to really concentrate to say the things you want to say without you and her getting angry with each other and it all ending up in a shouting match, but in my experience, it's a superior mode of communication, especially with difficult subjects
01 June 2008, 12:00 PM
#49
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Sorry to mention this but how do you think your sister would react if she was written out of the will - or left less than you? Very angry and hurt I bet!
The image I have built up on your sister I can see things getting quite ugly later on in this process...
Snazy I hope you have wife/girlfriend plenty of friends to support you mate as it sounds like you have much on your plate. You're getting plenty of support off this site for starters!
Your mother is very lucky to have you around.
Take care
Nick
The image I have built up on your sister I can see things getting quite ugly later on in this process...
Snazy I hope you have wife/girlfriend plenty of friends to support you mate as it sounds like you have much on your plate. You're getting plenty of support off this site for starters!
Your mother is very lucky to have you around.
Take care
Nick
My girlfriend is indeed very supportive, as supportive as she can be. Accepts not getting out much etc, so im truely thankful for that
As for my sister, I think the picture is a very good one you have there. When the fateful day comes, I think she is going to have a lot left on her plate. Unfinished business. I make the most of everday, and make sure any time I spend with mum is quality time.
Snazy,
don't know if you do this already, but stop texting her and go around and talk to her. As Leslie says, it's so much easier to ignore something when it's just a text message.
It will be harder for you as well, especially as you have to really concentrate to say the things you want to say without you and her getting angry with each other and it all ending up in a shouting match, but in my experience, it's a superior mode of communication, especially with difficult subjects
don't know if you do this already, but stop texting her and go around and talk to her. As Leslie says, it's so much easier to ignore something when it's just a text message.
It will be harder for you as well, especially as you have to really concentrate to say the things you want to say without you and her getting angry with each other and it all ending up in a shouting match, but in my experience, it's a superior mode of communication, especially with difficult subjects
She is talking more by text than she has verbally for a long time.
I dont get angry about things like this, certainly not in person. I am pretty good at remaining calm, and staying in control and on track. She however will refuse to talk away from the kids, refuse to listen to anything she does not want to hear like "mums dying"
The other problem is she is hardly ever home, always out round mates houses, or her other halfs. None of which I know or know where they live.
Sounds a bit weak, but if the opportunity presents itself to have a face to face, I will of course do it
01 June 2008, 12:51 PM
#50
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Sounds like she can manipulate conversations as well. In that case I'd suggest writing her a letter telling her of the difficulties you are having. Let her know that you would appreciate an effort from her.. Maybe send a photo of your mum?
With a letter you can put together what you want to say and she can read it as much as she wants but the words will not change - unlike your conversations with her! Yes she may choose to screw it up half way through but I doubt she won't read it all.
Nick
With a letter you can put together what you want to say and she can read it as much as she wants but the words will not change - unlike your conversations with her! Yes she may choose to screw it up half way through but I doubt she won't read it all.
Nick
01 June 2008, 01:35 PM
#51
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Thats why I did text, its the nearest thing to a real time conversation, made up of text that she has to read to understand what im saying.
On speaking to my mum, it appears Paula has again been telling 2 sides different stories.... again.
On speaking to my mum, it appears Paula has again been telling 2 sides different stories.... again.
01 June 2008, 07:38 PM
#52
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Sorry, not read the whole thread but have some personal experience.
People have different coping mechanisms and your sister is clearly worried about her own future health, apart from anything else.
She must try to comes to amicable terms with your mum and family or live with years of torment.
Take professional advice. Start with your GP.
Best wishes,
Richard.
People have different coping mechanisms and your sister is clearly worried about her own future health, apart from anything else.
She must try to comes to amicable terms with your mum and family or live with years of torment.
Take professional advice. Start with your GP.
Best wishes,
Richard.
01 June 2008, 09:44 PM
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Cheers Hoppy, we speak to the specialists a lot about all things cancer. Maybe my sister needs to talk to someone from McMillan.
Pete, cheers mate
Pete, cheers mate
05 June 2008, 03:38 PM
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UPDATE ...
Looks like the harsh words have done the trick.
Sister popped round on Monday, and has been round every day this week. Calling first, and picking up odds and sods for mum. Spending 10-15 mins with her. I think this is during her break time, so thus avoiding needing to bring the kids with her, til she can sort that part out.
Will have to see if it carries on, but its nice to see her making the effort.... finally.
Looks like the harsh words have done the trick.
Sister popped round on Monday, and has been round every day this week. Calling first, and picking up odds and sods for mum. Spending 10-15 mins with her. I think this is during her break time, so thus avoiding needing to bring the kids with her, til she can sort that part out.
Will have to see if it carries on, but its nice to see her making the effort.... finally.
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