which front mount?
19 June 2008 | 11:23 AM
#31
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 19,945
Likes: 2
From: "Engineering Perfection in Essex"
Early ones were a poor bar/plate style core, it seems the later ones are now tube/fin core.
Post some pics of it inc a pic inside the end take and we can tell you which one you have.
Post some pics of it inc a pic inside the end take and we can tell you which one you have.
19 June 2008 | 02:59 PM
#33
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 19,945
Likes: 2
From: "Engineering Perfection in Essex"
That is the older version and looks identical to the one that i tested and got poor results from. Sorry to be pi55ing on your fire but surely you'd rather know now.
Look how little there is with reagrds to internal fins. Now take a look at the internals of a stock STI cooler.
Some people say they have had good results with these but i beg to differ.
Your call though buddy, id swap it now if it was mine.
Look how little there is with reagrds to internal fins. Now take a look at the internals of a stock STI cooler.
Some people say they have had good results with these but i beg to differ.
Your call though buddy, id swap it now if it was mine.
19 June 2008 | 03:05 PM
#34
Oh bugger it 
Your right though, it is best to know up front, I'm a big girl (not literally) so I can take it.
Ok as its now booked in on Tuesday with Bob and too late to cancel now do you reckon in your opinion it would be just a good to fit the turbo and take it (its only a TD05) and just forget the frontmount for now until I get another shortly or go ahead and fit it and still change shortly so that the most of the cutting is all done and sorted?
Your right though, it is best to know up front, I'm a big girl (not literally) so I can take it.Ok as its now booked in on Tuesday with Bob and too late to cancel now do you reckon in your opinion it would be just a good to fit the turbo and take it (its only a TD05) and just forget the frontmount for now until I get another shortly or go ahead and fit it and still change shortly so that the most of the cutting is all done and sorted?
19 June 2008 | 03:07 PM
#36
Surely if you was to get a different FMIC the dimensions will be different, so will need cutting again, or indeed maybe have a hole thats too big.
Might be best to wait till you source another.
Might be best to wait till you source another.
19 June 2008 | 03:11 PM
#38
19 June 2008 | 03:14 PM
#39
Perfect, well as good as perfect as it gets at the mo.. I'll just go ahead and fit the one I have then and change asap if the hybrid dimensions are the same... Well I'm not fitting it personally, I'm the tea and bacon buttie provider as in Kips brilliant thread! 
Just a thought, would it need to be mapped again after the 2nd fmic change?
Just a thought, would it need to be mapped again after the 2nd fmic change?
Oops!
19 June 2008 | 03:58 PM
#41
Yep, unfortunately if the Hybrid works much better at cooling than the Autobahn, then you will need a map tweek to get the best out if it. I would call Bob today and have a chat with him ... he might suggest you postpone the mapping session until after the Hybrid has been fitted. 
19 June 2008 | 04:08 PM
#42
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From: Over 500ft/lbs of torque @ just 1.1bar
Just fit a Hybrid one the first time around.
The Hybrid pipework, clamps etc are all far better quality than the Autobahn core too.
We may well be able to get one out to you by tomorrow if you order early enough today
Hybrid FMIC Kits - Subaru Impreza - best prices
The Hybrid pipework, clamps etc are all far better quality than the Autobahn core too.
We may well be able to get one out to you by tomorrow if you order early enough today
Hybrid FMIC Kits - Subaru Impreza - best prices
19 June 2008 | 04:22 PM
#44
Its my own fault, I should have done more homework to start with.. I have bought all new clamps though, mikalor ones.. Although I am bit pi**ed to be honest as I don't have the funds this week to be able to get the hybrid here that quick, to get this far with this map sets you back probably close to a £1000 by the time you've bought the pump, clamps "shi**ty fmic" mapping and rolling rd time etc so it would have to wait at least a month.. Spending on her I don't mind and I certainly don't tot the cost up, doesn't bother me in the slightest, she's worth every penny but you know what it's like, other bills at the same time and priority ? To top it all I meant to write Pat earlier instead of Bob for the mapping, probably the biggest mistake, sorry guys!
19 June 2008 | 11:01 PM
#48
Maydew : Because of the claims about how STi 8 FMICs were good to run over 400 bhp I fitted one to my STi 3 Wagon to gain first hand knowledge. It was a bigger job than I anticipated and it took around three times as long as it would have taken to fit a Hybrid FMIC. It was also more expensive than a Hyrid FMIC kit as I also required the scoop undertray and STi 8 scoop. Efficiency with the O/E scoop is poor and the STi 7 scoop is marginal.
On all my cars I monitor air charge temp at the throttle body along with ambient temperature. The Hybrid FMIC in my WRX Wagon with 422 bhp from one of my own 05-06-20Gs outperforms the STi 8 TMIC in the STi 3 Wagon at 371 bhp.
As well as looking at temperatures you need to measure pressure drop. The STi 3 with STi8 TMIC has .2 bar drop at 1.5 bar. The WRX with Hybrid GT Spec has so low a pressure drop that I need smaller scale guages to measure it accurately and that is at 1.7 bar.
When I embark on my next round of modifications on the STi 3 Wagon I will remove the STi 8 TMIC and fit one of my Hybrid GC8 GT FMICs.
My conclusions are that the New Age cars have far more efficient top mounts than any of the Classic Scoobs but at somewhere between 350 and 400 bhp a New Age car will benefit from an efficient FMIC.
STi 5 and 6 TMICs are better at cooling than STi3 and 4 and STi 3,4, 5 and 6are streets ahead of the slanted intercoolers of ver 1 and 2 cars which probably struggle a long way before 300 bhp.
STi 3 and 4 struggle a little past 300 bhp and STi 5 and 6 are seeing high induction temperatures past 320 bhp.
My STi 3 Wagon when at 335 bhp could take the ACT guage off the scale at 70 C in a standing start to 100mph flat out.
Next time someone extols the virtues of an STi 8 TMIC over a Hybrid FMIC, ask them if they have first hand experience of both of these installations and confirm that they do have air charge temperature guages and ambient temp. guages to monitor how the intercoolers are performing.
If they do not have personal experience of both or if they do not monitor both temperatures then how do they know what they are talking about. Chances are they are regurgitating someone elses rubbish.
"I read it on Scoobynet.......................
On all my cars I monitor air charge temp at the throttle body along with ambient temperature. The Hybrid FMIC in my WRX Wagon with 422 bhp from one of my own 05-06-20Gs outperforms the STi 8 TMIC in the STi 3 Wagon at 371 bhp.
As well as looking at temperatures you need to measure pressure drop. The STi 3 with STi8 TMIC has .2 bar drop at 1.5 bar. The WRX with Hybrid GT Spec has so low a pressure drop that I need smaller scale guages to measure it accurately and that is at 1.7 bar.
When I embark on my next round of modifications on the STi 3 Wagon I will remove the STi 8 TMIC and fit one of my Hybrid GC8 GT FMICs.
My conclusions are that the New Age cars have far more efficient top mounts than any of the Classic Scoobs but at somewhere between 350 and 400 bhp a New Age car will benefit from an efficient FMIC.
STi 5 and 6 TMICs are better at cooling than STi3 and 4 and STi 3,4, 5 and 6are streets ahead of the slanted intercoolers of ver 1 and 2 cars which probably struggle a long way before 300 bhp.
STi 3 and 4 struggle a little past 300 bhp and STi 5 and 6 are seeing high induction temperatures past 320 bhp.
My STi 3 Wagon when at 335 bhp could take the ACT guage off the scale at 70 C in a standing start to 100mph flat out.
Next time someone extols the virtues of an STi 8 TMIC over a Hybrid FMIC, ask them if they have first hand experience of both of these installations and confirm that they do have air charge temperature guages and ambient temp. guages to monitor how the intercoolers are performing.
If they do not have personal experience of both or if they do not monitor both temperatures then how do they know what they are talking about. Chances are they are regurgitating someone elses rubbish.
"I read it on Scoobynet.......................
interesting right up there (specially at 03.39am
lol) i agree with all the classics benefit from a front mount by a big margin,also anyone upgrading newage wrx to over 330 bhp as it cost the same to go down the sti8 top mount route , but it would be interesting to know for all us sti8 owners running 350-400 bhp if it is worth going to front mount to justify the price for the gains we would see or is it better to spend the money on other things
20 June 2008 | 12:18 AM
#49
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 19,945
Likes: 2
From: "Engineering Perfection in Essex"
Personally i think anything less than 400bhp on a newage really wont gain alot from a FMIC.
Reason being that to make those numbers, you need to have a suitably sized turbocharger. The bigger the turbo, the less effort its having to do and so the less heat is actually being put into the charge in the first place.
1.7 bar from an FP Green on my STI7 TMIC never saw anything above 35 deg c on full load WOT.
Granted, on the APS its never 2 degrees over ambient no matter how hard i drive but i dare say the cost isnt worth it unless you do alot of track work where the car will be prone to an increase in det due to the higher temps etc.
Reason being that to make those numbers, you need to have a suitably sized turbocharger. The bigger the turbo, the less effort its having to do and so the less heat is actually being put into the charge in the first place.
1.7 bar from an FP Green on my STI7 TMIC never saw anything above 35 deg c on full load WOT.
Granted, on the APS its never 2 degrees over ambient no matter how hard i drive but i dare say the cost isnt worth it unless you do alot of track work where the car will be prone to an increase in det due to the higher temps etc.
20 June 2008 | 09:32 AM
#50
It is not just temperatures you are looking at. Take in to account the pressure drop across the intercooler core. A big pressure drop means the turbo has to work that much harder to provide the boost in the inlet manifold that you desire.
A Hybrid Tube and Fin core will out perform the bar and plate core shown above by a long way. This results in lower turbo temperatures and generally gives your turbo an easier time for the same power.
Hybrid GT FMIC kits are available from stock, delivered over night, inclusive of Paypal, UK mainland £285.
A Hybrid Tube and Fin core will out perform the bar and plate core shown above by a long way. This results in lower turbo temperatures and generally gives your turbo an easier time for the same power.
Hybrid GT FMIC kits are available from stock, delivered over night, inclusive of Paypal, UK mainland £285.
20 June 2008 | 02:49 PM
#52
Scooby Regular
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,957
Likes: 1
From: East coast.
It is not just temperatures you are looking at. Take in to account the pressure drop across the intercooler core. A big pressure drop means the turbo has to work that much harder to provide the boost in the inlet manifold that you desire.
A Hybrid Tube and Fin core will out perform the bar and plate core shown above by a long way. This results in lower turbo temperatures and generally gives your turbo an easier time for the same power.
A Hybrid Tube and Fin core will out perform the bar and plate core shown above by a long way. This results in lower turbo temperatures and generally gives your turbo an easier time for the same power.
20 June 2008 | 05:44 PM
#53
Thread Starter
Scooby Regular
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: forest of dean
thanks for all the replies.
ended up going for the hybrid.
having a few problems with fitting though, cant seem to work out the pipework run. do any newage owners with hybrid front mounts have any pics of the fitted pipework or pipes being fitted.
the core to throttle run seems to fit, but the turbo to core section seems to be miles off in alot of ways.
thanks in advance.
ended up going for the hybrid.
having a few problems with fitting though, cant seem to work out the pipework run. do any newage owners with hybrid front mounts have any pics of the fitted pipework or pipes being fitted.
the core to throttle run seems to fit, but the turbo to core section seems to be miles off in alot of ways.
thanks in advance.
22 June 2008 | 02:40 AM
#54
Your supplier will have/should have pictures from their own previous installations which should be of assistance to you and the kit should contain a set of fitting instructions with pictorial and text step by step guidance.
22 June 2008 | 11:56 AM
#55
Hi,im going to fit a hybrid soon,and looking around,your price seems the cheapest Harvey.Does the kit still miss out the 2" turbo hose as my last one did? Also,i had to extend the top battery side pipe by cutting it and fitting a samco.Is this still the case for the early classic?
Thanks,Mit
Thanks,Mit
22 June 2008 | 01:25 PM
#56
The GT Kit fits like a glove on 97-00 cars. On older cars, to get a good fit of the pipe to the throttlebody on SOME cars, one of the tricks is to insert a joiner as you have done previously. This is because of a difference of location of the T.B. on some of the earlier cars.
If you bought the previous kit from me, direct, depending on when you actually bought it, you also received a material list and that included "1 x Joiner hot pie to turbo compressor"
Regards,
Harvey.
If you bought the previous kit from me, direct, depending on when you actually bought it, you also received a material list and that included "1 x Joiner hot pie to turbo compressor"
Regards,
Harvey.
22 June 2008 | 04:07 PM
#58
Thread Starter
Scooby Regular
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 146
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From: forest of dean
no insturctions included with the kit. and no pics from supplier of their own installations.
can anyone help me out?
22 June 2008 | 04:26 PM
#59
Scooby Regular
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
From: Lincoln
Hi mate,
Fitted the updated Hybrid to my Newage a few weeks ago. I initially had major issues because i cut the front cross-member to fit the core, the brackets lined up perfectly with a hole on a plate within the cross-member. I now know that you do NOT cut the cross-member, the core mounts under it, and hence does not fit within the bumpers' centre hole, on mine it actually hangs about an inch below the bumper. I hope you havn't gone down this route !! Sorry but i cant post pictures but i took loads - so if you want to pm your e-mail i can send you them asap.
Stu
Fitted the updated Hybrid to my Newage a few weeks ago. I initially had major issues because i cut the front cross-member to fit the core, the brackets lined up perfectly with a hole on a plate within the cross-member. I now know that you do NOT cut the cross-member, the core mounts under it, and hence does not fit within the bumpers' centre hole, on mine it actually hangs about an inch below the bumper. I hope you havn't gone down this route !! Sorry but i cant post pictures but i took loads - so if you want to pm your e-mail i can send you them asap.
Stu