People under 21 possibly banned from buying alcohol
17 June 2008, 11:52 AM
#31
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Worthing..
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I understand your point Pete, but how responsible are the young binge drinkers shouting and being generally objectionable and throwing up all over the road until they eventually collapse and have to be taken off to A&E?
It may seem unfair but surely its the fault of those who are out of control. What would you do to solve the problem?
Les
It may seem unfair but surely its the fault of those who are out of control. What would you do to solve the problem?
Les
When you are 18, frankly, you can do what you like, and if drinking yourself is what you want to do, then get on an do it.
No one is going to convince me that we can allow our young people to go off to die in Afghanistan, but we can't allow them to buy a drink in an offie.
17 June 2008, 12:00 PM
#32
If the real issue is about 'kids' drinking and causing trouble on the streets, then there needs to be an increased police presence on those streets to tackle those issues, possibly harsher punishment for disorder caused through drinking in this manner.
At the end of the day, I'm the first to admit there is a problem with this sort of behaviour, but I can't see this really as a proper solution, more a sticking plaster, to stop us having to deal with the root of the problems. Also, I think it is unfair to make the majority of sensible adults unable to simply go down to a shop and buy some drink (most likely to be consumed indoors) because of a portion of society spoiling things, and yet not being dealt with.
I will not deny, I used to buy drink before I was 18, yet not once did I stand about drinking on the streets, not once have I been in trouble due to drink, and not once have I ended up in A and E.
If it is almost impossible to prevent under 18s from getting access to drink, I can't see this really stopping those who are legally old enough to consume alcohol from doing so. Those hell bent on behaving in these ways, will continue, regardless unless the real issue is dealt with. Only my 2 pence.
At the end of the day, I'm the first to admit there is a problem with this sort of behaviour, but I can't see this really as a proper solution, more a sticking plaster, to stop us having to deal with the root of the problems. Also, I think it is unfair to make the majority of sensible adults unable to simply go down to a shop and buy some drink (most likely to be consumed indoors) because of a portion of society spoiling things, and yet not being dealt with.
I will not deny, I used to buy drink before I was 18, yet not once did I stand about drinking on the streets, not once have I been in trouble due to drink, and not once have I ended up in A and E.
If it is almost impossible to prevent under 18s from getting access to drink, I can't see this really stopping those who are legally old enough to consume alcohol from doing so. Those hell bent on behaving in these ways, will continue, regardless unless the real issue is dealt with. Only my 2 pence.
17 June 2008, 12:52 PM
#33
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Like I say , Les, I think the onus needs to be on responsible shop keepers, and better policing to stop under age drinkers.
When you are 18, frankly, you can do what you like, and if drinking yourself is what you want to do, then get on an do it.
No one is going to convince me that we can allow our young people to go off to die in Afghanistan, but we can't allow them to buy a drink in an offie.
When you are 18, frankly, you can do what you like, and if drinking yourself is what you want to do, then get on an do it.
No one is going to convince me that we can allow our young people to go off to die in Afghanistan, but we can't allow them to buy a drink in an offie.
Les
17 June 2008, 12:53 PM
#34
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Worthing..
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We need to change attitudes in the long run - But that will take years - decades.
17 June 2008, 02:17 PM
#35
Scooby Regular
Are you lot really as stupid as you sound? or can you just not read? Or maybe you just want to moan for the sake of moaning when the new law will probably not affect any of you anyway.
What they are trying to do is to prevent kids buying booze, going out in public to drink it and becoming a nuisance, they are not preventing 18 yr olds from going to a pub to drink! If you go to a pub you have to drink on the premises, and are technically under the landlord / bar staff supervision. If you buy a 6 pack of wife beater and go and sit in the park to drink it there is no supervision so you can get drunk and annoy other people, not to mention dump your empty cans in public.
Sorry but to me it makes perfect sense to try and curb yob drinking, nobody is infringing on your rights to drink at 18 just your ability to buy it from a shop.
It may work against binge drinking but then again it may not, as has already been stated, unscrupulous shop keepers will still sell it regardless until they get caught or someone with ID fake or real will buy it for them. What would be a better solution is to ban drinking of alcohol in parks and public places outside of official public functions.
You should think yourself lucky you are not in the US where you can not drink full stop until you are 21.
Sorry but where is the confusion?
What they are trying to do is to prevent kids buying booze, going out in public to drink it and becoming a nuisance, they are not preventing 18 yr olds from going to a pub to drink! If you go to a pub you have to drink on the premises, and are technically under the landlord / bar staff supervision. If you buy a 6 pack of wife beater and go and sit in the park to drink it there is no supervision so you can get drunk and annoy other people, not to mention dump your empty cans in public.
Sorry but to me it makes perfect sense to try and curb yob drinking, nobody is infringing on your rights to drink at 18 just your ability to buy it from a shop.
It may work against binge drinking but then again it may not, as has already been stated, unscrupulous shop keepers will still sell it regardless until they get caught or someone with ID fake or real will buy it for them. What would be a better solution is to ban drinking of alcohol in parks and public places outside of official public functions.
You should think yourself lucky you are not in the US where you can not drink full stop until you are 21.
Sorry but where is the confusion?
17 June 2008, 02:22 PM
#36
Scooby Regular
The supermarkets up here are practically giving alcohol away, its that cheap.
Cheap booze and teenagers is a recepie for, well, the current problems.
Yes, we need more policing, better parenting etc, etc, etc, but everything helps.
17 June 2008, 02:34 PM
#37
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Worthing..
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So you agree that we can trust people to buy homes, join the army, become police officers, firemen, get married , have kids, buy a house and vote for who runs the country, but not to buy alcohol from a supermarket?
17 June 2008, 03:37 PM
#38
Scooby Regular
18-20 year olds joining the army, fire service or the police will be in training - unlikely to be buying crates of beer from Asda for sessions in the park, or on the street corners.
18-20 is too young to get married IMO, likewise to have kids.
You got me on voting. But then, most of the voting population is clearly too thick to have the vote anyway (as evidenced) and hence shouldn't be buying alcohol in massive quantities from supermarkets.
So, yes, I agree.
17 June 2008, 04:23 PM
#40
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Worthing..
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why not? The two aren't mutually exclusive. I mean just maybe when they sign on the dotted line (and thus be accepted as responsible enough to be in potentially several hundred thousand pounds worth of debt) they might fancy popping down the offie to get a celebratory bottle of bubbly.
Opps! sorry! Can't sell you that! We can trust you to sign you life away in debt, but drinking champagne? Not a chance sonny.
Perhaps said 18 year old has just returned from a tour in Iraq, were he is deemed responsible enough to literally hold the lives of his comrades in his hands.
Quite fancy a tinny or two after that!
Opps! Sorry!, we can trust you to carry a SA-80 rifle, and risk your life on a daily basis, but trust you woth a can of Fosters? No a chance sonny.
So what, we should raise the age of consent? Or marriage?
What? The measure of whether you can buy alcohol should be based on your intelligence level?
Whatever way you look at it, ti is utterly ridiculous to raise the age for buying alcohol to 21, when every other aspect of adult life happens at 18.
Opps! sorry! Can't sell you that! We can trust you to sign you life away in debt, but drinking champagne? Not a chance sonny.
Quite fancy a tinny or two after that!
Opps! Sorry!, we can trust you to carry a SA-80 rifle, and risk your life on a daily basis, but trust you woth a can of Fosters? No a chance sonny.
So what, we should raise the age of consent? Or marriage?
Whatever way you look at it, ti is utterly ridiculous to raise the age for buying alcohol to 21, when every other aspect of adult life happens at 18.
17 June 2008, 05:12 PM
#41
Scooby Regular
Pete,
My comments above were somewhat tongue in cheek.
Evidence suggests, however, that there is a problem with young binge drinkers which does not manifest itself in other lifestyle choices that can be made at 18-20.
So the two are not directly comparible and your whole argument is rather unfounded.
My comments above were somewhat tongue in cheek.
Evidence suggests, however, that there is a problem with young binge drinkers which does not manifest itself in other lifestyle choices that can be made at 18-20.
So the two are not directly comparible and your whole argument is rather unfounded.
17 June 2008, 05:14 PM
#42
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Worthing..
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pete,
My comments above were somewhat tongue in cheek.
Evidence suggests, however, that there is a problem with young binge drinkers which does not manifest itself in other lifestyle choices that can be made at 18-20.
So the two are not directly comparible and your whole argument is rather unfounded.
My comments above were somewhat tongue in cheek.
Evidence suggests, however, that there is a problem with young binge drinkers which does not manifest itself in other lifestyle choices that can be made at 18-20.
So the two are not directly comparible and your whole argument is rather unfounded.
If you aren't , fine, but be preapred to raise the age for everything.
(I'm not saying we shouldn't - just that you have to be consistant)
17 June 2008, 05:22 PM
#43
Scooby Regular
Where is the comparison between buying a house and buying a mind altering drug?
17 June 2008, 06:24 PM
#44
Well DD, maybe we should just ban alcohol altogther. Yes there may be problems with binge drinking between the age of 18-20, but there is also above that age. Not to mention alcoholism in older adults, and the problems associated with that.
People by and large, are responsible, and whether 18/21 or older are perfectly able to drink without creating problems, that is why the problems need to be directly adressed, and dealt with, not penalise all young adults, who are in fact doing nothing wrong.
People by and large, are responsible, and whether 18/21 or older are perfectly able to drink without creating problems, that is why the problems need to be directly adressed, and dealt with, not penalise all young adults, who are in fact doing nothing wrong.
17 June 2008, 06:46 PM
#45
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pot Belly HQ
Posts: 16,694
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The local drunk around here died last week of liver failure. He was mid to late forties. All he used to do was hang around outside the local supermarket, getting wasted while accompanied by an Alsation and a ghetto blaster. Still, there were enough people scared of him and his dog.
17 June 2008, 07:51 PM
#46
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,491
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As with most things these days, a small minority of scum spoil things for everybody. I would be happy to single out the scum and subject them to a suitable kind of torture but that'll never happen and the default solution here seems to be a blanket response that punishes everybody. It won't be long now before fit and healthy me is paying a fat tax if I chose to eat some chocolate or a burger because a number of fat buggers can't stop shovelling food down their throats. Where's the fairness in that, but God forbid that we single out these fat gluttons for special attention. Probably their genes or some such anyway.
As for your list Pete, how many 18-20 year olds do you think are buying houses? But let's face it, the age isn't really the problem here is it? There are just as many 35 year old arseholes here knocking back the grog, the difference is they generally don't hang about on street corners, they're back home in their social housing slumped on the leather couch they got on the never-never swearing at their fat wives, *** and ' Britain's got Talent ' on the go, while their kids run riot on the street corners.
'...to hell in a handcart' and all that.
Kevin
As for your list Pete, how many 18-20 year olds do you think are buying houses? But let's face it, the age isn't really the problem here is it? There are just as many 35 year old arseholes here knocking back the grog, the difference is they generally don't hang about on street corners, they're back home in their social housing slumped on the leather couch they got on the never-never swearing at their fat wives, *** and ' Britain's got Talent ' on the go, while their kids run riot on the street corners.
'...to hell in a handcart' and all that.
Kevin
17 June 2008, 08:46 PM
#47
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Worthing..
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
18 June 2008, 09:38 AM
#48
Scooby Senior
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wildberg, Germany/Reading, UK
Posts: 9,707
Likes: 0
Received 73 Likes
on
54 Posts
As for your list Pete, how many 18-20 year olds do you think are buying houses? But let's face it, the age isn't really the problem here is it? There are just as many 35 year old arseholes here knocking back the grog, the difference is they generally don't hang about on street corners,
Kevin
Kevin
18 June 2008, 10:11 AM
#49
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Worthing..
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well obviously house buying is just one of the many things you are deemed responsible enough to do at 18. Whether you can afford it or not is irrelevant.
I'm also not convinced that it is 18-20 year olds hanging round street corners, it tends to be younger people - The 18-20 year olds are in pubs/clubs.
Its seems no one can seriously justify banning alchohol sales, whilst not raising the age for everything else.
I'm also not convinced that it is 18-20 year olds hanging round street corners, it tends to be younger people - The 18-20 year olds are in pubs/clubs.
Its seems no one can seriously justify banning alchohol sales, whilst not raising the age for everything else.
18 June 2008, 10:21 AM
#50
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,490
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think its all about the mindset.The argument about price doesn't mean anything.
Just because beer or cider was cheap when I was a kid it didn't give me the urge to splash my cash on it.Just because I was old enough to buy it,again,didn't give me the urge to go and buy it.
I think the kids that drink so heavily and the irresponsible adults that get hammered are trying to escape from something.Kids maybe school pressures? I don't know.Adults the pressures of what its like to afford to live and survive in the UK? I don't know
Just because beer or cider was cheap when I was a kid it didn't give me the urge to splash my cash on it.Just because I was old enough to buy it,again,didn't give me the urge to go and buy it.
I think the kids that drink so heavily and the irresponsible adults that get hammered are trying to escape from something.Kids maybe school pressures? I don't know.Adults the pressures of what its like to afford to live and survive in the UK? I don't know
18 June 2008, 12:21 PM
#51
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All you need to do is to demonstrate all of the above and then say its their choice in the end but is it really worth it? A little of what you fancy is not necessarily that bad for you but self control is the real key to survival.
I do know that had I known the dangers of smoking at the time, I would never have bothered to start and it was hell to kick it! I did know about the effects of narcotic drugs etc. though and never touched them.
Les
Last edited by Leslie; 18 June 2008 at 12:24 PM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
