To those who don't agree with the return of the death penalty...
30 June 2008, 11:21 AM
#91
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It is making a clear statement to those who intend to commit the crimes that they have set the death penalty for that if you commit the crime and we prove you did it you will be executed.
It's called taking a hard line on the most serious of crimes and making it very clear what will happen to you if you are caught.
30 June 2008, 11:22 AM
#92
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So who draws the line in the sand?
Kid molesting is an easy one but would banging an old lady on the head become a capital offence? Should a 14 year old who stabs someone be put down?
Maybe we should let the mob decide - like that crowd who chased after a paediatrician because they thought that was the same as a paedophile? dl
Kid molesting is an easy one but would banging an old lady on the head become a capital offence? Should a 14 year old who stabs someone be put down?
Maybe we should let the mob decide - like that crowd who chased after a paediatrician because they thought that was the same as a paedophile? dl
Example
Old lady dies of a heart attach during a robbery - life for offender
Old lady raped and beaten to death - offender gets 'the' injection
It is horses for courses, sick, evil individuals who commit vile acts should now what the punishment is, will it make a different to thier offending - may well do, it will permentaly remove them if they choose to do so come what may.
Ah, hey it is all speculation and hot air, nothing will be done.
We are too civilised to allow state sanctioned murder - Iraq anyone
30 June 2008, 11:24 AM
#93
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LOL!
Blimey - public executuions, maybe 'madam gilloutine', old women sat around knitting, children p,aying with the hads as they fall to the ground stalls sellign efegies of the condemmed man/woman and plastic (made in china) gilloutines....
Oh come on, as you say 2008 not 1808 - behind closed doors, chemical, painless (relative) not put out over the internet, public would not bat an eye or want to attend, would you, no , would i no. Would the victims relative - maybe if thety wished to perhaps.
Blimey - public executuions, maybe 'madam gilloutine', old women sat around knitting, children p,aying with the hads as they fall to the ground stalls sellign efegies of the condemmed man/woman and plastic (made in china) gilloutines....
Oh come on, as you say 2008 not 1808 - behind closed doors, chemical, painless (relative) not put out over the internet, public would not bat an eye or want to attend, would you, no , would i no. Would the victims relative - maybe if thety wished to perhaps.
)- I meant the process of our country killing someone in the name of justice (whatever the methods).
30 June 2008, 11:25 AM
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Keying cars is a daft (at best) analogy is it not, FFS it is a car and can be fixed/repaired . it is not a living breathing human being is it so please drop what is a pointless comparison.
I am not sure why having the families of this offended against involved in the sentancing process is such a bad thing. They understand first hand the pain and suffering.
I am not sure why having the families of this offended against involved in the sentancing process is such a bad thing. They understand first hand the pain and suffering.
30 June 2008, 11:27 AM
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Not in my opinion it is not.
It is making a clear statement to those who intend to commit the crimes that they have set the death penalty for that if you commit the crime and we prove you did it you will be executed.
It's called taking a hard line on the most serious of crimes and making it very clear what will happen to you if you are caught.
It is making a clear statement to those who intend to commit the crimes that they have set the death penalty for that if you commit the crime and we prove you did it you will be executed.
It's called taking a hard line on the most serious of crimes and making it very clear what will happen to you if you are caught.
And as I'm sure you already know, there is no evidence that the death penalty prevents these terrible crimes.
What's so wrong with locking them up, why do we need to kill them, I simply do not understand, what motivates you to want people killed.
30 June 2008, 11:28 AM
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Not in my opinion it is not.
It is making a clear statement to those who intend to commit the crimes that they have set the death penalty for that if you commit the crime and we prove you did it you will be executed.
It's called taking a hard line on the most serious of crimes and making it very clear what will happen to you if you are caught.
It is making a clear statement to those who intend to commit the crimes that they have set the death penalty for that if you commit the crime and we prove you did it you will be executed.
It's called taking a hard line on the most serious of crimes and making it very clear what will happen to you if you are caught.
will get all upset and write into the Guardian and protest bringing their local Starbucks to a complete halt!Thank God that at certain times of our history some 'real' men and women have stood up and made a stand and taken some though decisions.
As time goes on and the PC so called civilised society we live in softenss and weakens pretty much everything we will see less and less of them.
It may be a little unpalletable over the morning museli - For those who seem tho think civilised makes it all ok the slight problem is that the scum live outside your civilised society and its rules and tend to wipe their asses on it!
30 June 2008, 11:29 AM
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I said that they should be part of the process, not judge, jury and exicutioner!
30 June 2008, 11:30 AM
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You are not allowd to take a tough line, tyhje lilley livered lefties will get all upset and write into the Guardian and protest bringing theior local Starbucksto a complet halt!
Thank God that at certain times of our history some 'real' men and women have stood up and made a stand and taken some though decisions.
As time goes on and the PC so called civilised society we live in softenss and weakens pretty much everything we will see less and less of them.
It may be a little unpalletable over the morning museli - For those who seem tho think civilised makes it all ok the slight problem is that the scum live outside your civilised society and its rules and tend to wipe their asses on it!
Thank God that at certain times of our history some 'real' men and women have stood up and made a stand and taken some though decisions.
As time goes on and the PC so called civilised society we live in softenss and weakens pretty much everything we will see less and less of them.
It may be a little unpalletable over the morning museli - For those who seem tho think civilised makes it all ok the slight problem is that the scum live outside your civilised society and its rules and tend to wipe their asses on it!
30 June 2008, 11:32 AM
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Of course this is such an emotive issue you are not going to get a consensus between those that want the death penalty, and those that do not. So it's going to be one of those circular debalte, so I'll withdraw here, I can't think I want to add, and like I say I can understand people that want the penalty back, I just don't agree with them.
Quit hogging those lentils, Pete!
30 June 2008, 11:36 AM
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For the state to execute someone would be a ghastly spectacle, I don't want my country to do such a thing, what values is that supposed to be promoting. And I ask again what will it achieve?
Martin - you got all emotive with your words - State sanctioned murder - i got an image of it being on telly and a media event. Just because you find it upallatable should not mean it cannot happen Martin. Throughouit history unpallatable things happens, attend a road accident or go go a way zone and see for yuorself. Sometimes it can be for the best or the right reasons even if is beyond comprehension or you find it unpalatable.
It is all academic anyhow. Wil not happen.
If i could get my hands on this chap myslef i do belive i would put him down. Oh and if i got my hands on someone who had scratched my car i might give them a slap, unlikely i would cut of thier nuts or beat them to death - It should be perspective really and as i said it is only a car, if you value a car above a kids life then you may need help, if you use the anaolgy car/vs baby rape you need to get some perspective and if someone scratching you pride and joy makes you want to kill, ask yourself - could you for such a petty act - really, you might think it...
Last edited by The Zohan; 30 June 2008 at 11:53 AM.
30 June 2008, 11:57 AM
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For all of you people who keep going on about how the death penalty is a deterrent, please wake up. The death penalty is the ulitmate punishment, not the ultimate deterrent.
There were times when crime was rife in Britain, murder, rape, theft, highway robbery, abuse of children, you name it. The death penalty was available for most of these crimes, so obviously not a deterrent at all. The murder rate did not suddenly soar in 1969 (or 1965 when if effectively ended). Problem is, most people don't think of the consequences when committing a crime, or are too arrogant to think they will get caught. The murder rate in the US is 4 times higher than in the UK, yet they have the death sentence, care to explain?
Also, the death sentence is not a punishment for the perpertrator alone. By murdering the person who committed the crime, you also punish their family. Why should innocents be punished for someone elses crime? Anyone who has had a family member murdered should appreciate why it is intolerable to inflict that suffering on other innocent people.
Better that 100 guilty men go free than execute one innocent.
Of course, the example in the OP deserves to die, but that is not the same as wishing for the return of the death penalty.
Geezer
There were times when crime was rife in Britain, murder, rape, theft, highway robbery, abuse of children, you name it. The death penalty was available for most of these crimes, so obviously not a deterrent at all. The murder rate did not suddenly soar in 1969 (or 1965 when if effectively ended). Problem is, most people don't think of the consequences when committing a crime, or are too arrogant to think they will get caught. The murder rate in the US is 4 times higher than in the UK, yet they have the death sentence, care to explain?
Also, the death sentence is not a punishment for the perpertrator alone. By murdering the person who committed the crime, you also punish their family. Why should innocents be punished for someone elses crime? Anyone who has had a family member murdered should appreciate why it is intolerable to inflict that suffering on other innocent people.
Better that 100 guilty men go free than execute one innocent.
Of course, the example in the OP deserves to die, but that is not the same as wishing for the return of the death penalty.
Geezer
30 June 2008, 12:01 PM
#103
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You just don't get it do you.
This has nothing to do with 'protecting criminals', or 'leftie politics'. It's just wrong!
What's so wrong with locking these vile people up, why do you have such a strong desire to kill? It wont change anything, it wont undo these horrendous crimes, it wont make anyone feel any better, it wont stop future crimes.
It's an illogical and immoral arguement that you make.
This has nothing to do with 'protecting criminals', or 'leftie politics'. It's just wrong!
What's so wrong with locking these vile people up, why do you have such a strong desire to kill? It wont change anything, it wont undo these horrendous crimes, it wont make anyone feel any better, it wont stop future crimes.
It's an illogical and immoral arguement that you make.
It has been said quite rightly that the death penalty is the right penalty for someone who was quite happy to kill another person. Your bleeding heart philosophy is as in the PC Plonkers' ideas of not punishing people because it is not really their fault that they go around mugging others and vandalising property! Do you really believe that, do you think that not punishing them improves the situation? Or is it maybe that they can expect no significant punishment that they feel they might as well laugh behind their hands and just carry on beating people up etc. What do you think? Do you really believe that they do not know right from wrong?
You wont remember this country when the death penalty was part of the law for a capital crime. You keep wittling on about the death penalty having been proved to do no good. That is a standard PC Plonker statement! How do you know that? Why do we see a murder about every day now when in those days there were so few that they were headline news? Try answering that one satisfactorily. The truth is that you don't know and all the leftie statistics don't add up to a thing. Nothing like seeing the real results of such policies to know what is really happening!
The whole point is that the law is supposed to be there to protect the general public despite what it appears to be at the moment. The State has the right of the sword and if the murder statistics have wound up to today's gross proportions, then the punishment policies are failing abjectly and it is necessary to intstitute a penalty that will really deter those who have a tendency to taking human life. If it takes the death penalty to do that, then that is the right way to go.
Les
30 June 2008, 12:04 PM
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Les and I looked into this some time ago. It actually went up by 50%.
But....
That was a rise from 7 people per 100,000 to 12 people per 100,000. So although a large rise in term sof a percentage, it's really insignificant. I mean buying two lottery tickets increases your chances of winning by 100%, but you still ain't gonna win.
30 June 2008, 12:11 PM
#105
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It has been said quite rightly that the death penalty is the right penalty for someone who was quite happy to kill another person. Your bleeding heart philosophy is as in the PC Plonkers' ideas of not punishing people because it is not really their fault that they go around mugging others and vandalising property! Do you really believe that, do you think that not punishing them improves the situation? Or is it maybe that they can expect no significant punishment that they feel they might as well laugh behind their hands and just carry on beating people up etc. What do you think? Do you really believe that they do not know right from wrong?
I mean when you find a weed in the garden, you don't just trim off the visible leaves, why? because you know it will just grow back, you need to remove the problem at the root. Hence the reason there are "PC Plonker" type schemes to try and engage people rather than just punish them.
You wont remember this country when the death penalty was part of the law for a capital crime. You keep wittling on about the death penalty having been proved to do no good. That is a standard PC Plonker statement! How do you know that? Why do we see a murder about every day now when in those days there were so few that they were headline news? Try answering that one satisfactorily. The truth is that you don't know and all the leftie statistics don't add up to a thing. Nothing like seeing the real results of such policies to know what is really happening!
We also know that other state that have the Deathe penalty do not deter people, we know that by the fact that those states have to use said penalty.
The whole point is that the law is supposed to be there to protect the general public despite what it appears to be at the moment. The State has the right of the sword and if the murder statistics have wound up to today's gross proportions, then the punishment policies are failing abjectly and it is necessary to intstitute a penalty that will really deter those who have a tendency to taking human life. If it takes the death penalty to do that, then that is the right way to go.
And again, how can you possibly justify murdering an innocent person if you get it wrong?
Darn it, I supposed to leave this thread
30 June 2008, 12:22 PM
#106
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I am afraid that it is you who "does not see it"
It has been said quite rightly that the death penalty is the right penalty for someone who was quite happy to kill another person. Your bleeding heart philosophy is as in the PC Plonkers' ideas of not punishing people because it is not really their fault that they go around mugging others and vandalising property! Do you really believe that, do you think that not punishing them improves the situation? Or is it maybe that they can expect no significant punishment that they feel they might as well laugh behind their hands and just carry on beating people up etc. What do you think? Do you really believe that they do not know right from wrong?
You wont remember this country when the death penalty was part of the law for a capital crime. You keep wittling on about the death penalty having been proved to do no good. That is a standard PC Plonker statement! How do you know that? Why do we see a murder about every day now when in those days there were so few that they were headline news? Try answering that one satisfactorily. The truth is that you don't know and all the leftie statistics don't add up to a thing. Nothing like seeing the real results of such policies to know what is really happening!
The whole point is that the law is supposed to be there to protect the general public despite what it appears to be at the moment. The State has the right of the sword and if the murder statistics have wound up to today's gross proportions, then the punishment policies are failing abjectly and it is necessary to intstitute a penalty that will really deter those who have a tendency to taking human life. If it takes the death penalty to do that, then that is the right way to go.
Les
It has been said quite rightly that the death penalty is the right penalty for someone who was quite happy to kill another person. Your bleeding heart philosophy is as in the PC Plonkers' ideas of not punishing people because it is not really their fault that they go around mugging others and vandalising property! Do you really believe that, do you think that not punishing them improves the situation? Or is it maybe that they can expect no significant punishment that they feel they might as well laugh behind their hands and just carry on beating people up etc. What do you think? Do you really believe that they do not know right from wrong?
You wont remember this country when the death penalty was part of the law for a capital crime. You keep wittling on about the death penalty having been proved to do no good. That is a standard PC Plonker statement! How do you know that? Why do we see a murder about every day now when in those days there were so few that they were headline news? Try answering that one satisfactorily. The truth is that you don't know and all the leftie statistics don't add up to a thing. Nothing like seeing the real results of such policies to know what is really happening!
The whole point is that the law is supposed to be there to protect the general public despite what it appears to be at the moment. The State has the right of the sword and if the murder statistics have wound up to today's gross proportions, then the punishment policies are failing abjectly and it is necessary to intstitute a penalty that will really deter those who have a tendency to taking human life. If it takes the death penalty to do that, then that is the right way to go.
Les
Les
Did you even bother reading what i've written on this thread?
I'm no no PC plonker as you put it. And I want criminals to be given very severe punishments. I just don't believe in the death sentence.
Having the death penalty will change NOTHING, all of the stuff you bang on about would be COMPLETELY UNCHANGED.
30 June 2008, 12:46 PM
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In these days of national and international connections (t'internet), would it be so hard to hold a referendum (perhaps regularly) to decide whether the death penalty is a fit punishment for a particular offender/offence?
I completely agree that this particular monster should be executed. Maybe it's too soft for those who would see him tortured for life instead but I view the life of this thing as I view the life of the two Trout that i caught and smashed over the head yesterday (Yes I'll be eating them and no I dont want to eat people).
Therefore I would quite happily be the one to push the button. The life or death of this monster (and all similar wastes of skin) means nothing to me but knowing that these things are living a life of relative luxury somewhat iritates me.
I had never considered that housing these types together allows them to discuss their crimes with each other and therefore get even more pleasure from their victims until I read an earlier post. My position is solidified because of it.
Did those of you who are against the death penalty in this particular case lobby your MP's before Saddam was hanged or did you just accept that it was ok because in 'that' country it was the people wish and therefore their right? Isn't it our right? Why cant we have a vote on it?
I completely agree that this particular monster should be executed. Maybe it's too soft for those who would see him tortured for life instead but I view the life of this thing as I view the life of the two Trout that i caught and smashed over the head yesterday (Yes I'll be eating them and no I dont want to eat people).
Therefore I would quite happily be the one to push the button. The life or death of this monster (and all similar wastes of skin) means nothing to me but knowing that these things are living a life of relative luxury somewhat iritates me.
I had never considered that housing these types together allows them to discuss their crimes with each other and therefore get even more pleasure from their victims until I read an earlier post. My position is solidified because of it.
Did those of you who are against the death penalty in this particular case lobby your MP's before Saddam was hanged or did you just accept that it was ok because in 'that' country it was the people wish and therefore their right? Isn't it our right? Why cant we have a vote on it?
30 June 2008, 12:57 PM
#108
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In these days of national and international connections (t'internet), would it be so hard to hold a referendum (perhaps regularly) to decide whether the death penalty is a fit punishment for a particular offender/offence?
I completely agree that this particular monster should be executed. Maybe it's too soft for those who would see him tortured for life instead but I view the life of this thing as I view the life of the two Trout that i caught and smashed over the head yesterday (Yes I'll be eating them and no I dont want to eat people).
Therefore I would quite happily be the one to push the button. The life or death of this monster (and all similar wastes of skin) means nothing to me but knowing that these things are living a life of relative luxury somewhat iritates me.
I had never considered that housing these types together allows them to discuss their crimes with each other and therefore get even more pleasure from their victims until I read an earlier post. My position is solidified because of it.
Did those of you who are against the death penalty in this particular case lobby your MP's before Saddam was hanged or did you just accept that it was ok because in 'that' country it was the people wish and therefore their right? Isn't it our right? Why cant we have a vote on it?
I completely agree that this particular monster should be executed. Maybe it's too soft for those who would see him tortured for life instead but I view the life of this thing as I view the life of the two Trout that i caught and smashed over the head yesterday (Yes I'll be eating them and no I dont want to eat people).
Therefore I would quite happily be the one to push the button. The life or death of this monster (and all similar wastes of skin) means nothing to me but knowing that these things are living a life of relative luxury somewhat iritates me.
I had never considered that housing these types together allows them to discuss their crimes with each other and therefore get even more pleasure from their victims until I read an earlier post. My position is solidified because of it.
Did those of you who are against the death penalty in this particular case lobby your MP's before Saddam was hanged or did you just accept that it was ok because in 'that' country it was the people wish and therefore their right? Isn't it our right? Why cant we have a vote on it?
30 June 2008, 12:59 PM
#109
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Les
Did you even bother reading what i've written on this thread?
I'm no no PC plonker as you put it. And I want criminals to be given very severe punishments. I just don't believe in the death sentence.
Having the death penalty will change NOTHING, all of the stuff you bang on about would be COMPLETELY UNCHANGED.
Did you even bother reading what i've written on this thread?
I'm no no PC plonker as you put it. And I want criminals to be given very severe punishments. I just don't believe in the death sentence.
Having the death penalty will change NOTHING, all of the stuff you bang on about would be COMPLETELY UNCHANGED.
You are also in denial about the effects of the death sentence.
The other point to Pete Brant was the difference in population of this country in between the times that those figures were arrived at, and when were the last figures published Pete?
Les
30 June 2008, 01:26 PM
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The Governer of Texas was asked about the death penalty and what happened if you made a mistake ? His reply was that that was a price Texas was willing to pay !!!
B*gger not if it is me.
I am against it purely because you can make mistakes, no amount of money is going to recompense the family
B*gger not if it is me.
I am against it purely because you can make mistakes, no amount of money is going to recompense the family
30 June 2008, 02:00 PM
#111
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The number of Murders per million of population in 1965 was 6.5, in 1970 it was 8.5 and today ( as per the last BCS) was 13.
30 June 2008, 02:06 PM
#112
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I am afraid that it is you who "does not see it"
It has been said quite rightly that the death penalty is the right penalty for someone who was quite happy to kill another person. Your bleeding heart philosophy is as in the PC Plonkers' ideas of not punishing people because it is not really their fault that they go around mugging others and vandalising property! Do you really believe that, do you think that not punishing them improves the situation? Or is it maybe that they can expect no significant punishment that they feel they might as well laugh behind their hands and just carry on beating people up etc. What do you think? Do you really believe that they do not know right from wrong?
It has been said quite rightly that the death penalty is the right penalty for someone who was quite happy to kill another person. Your bleeding heart philosophy is as in the PC Plonkers' ideas of not punishing people because it is not really their fault that they go around mugging others and vandalising property! Do you really believe that, do you think that not punishing them improves the situation? Or is it maybe that they can expect no significant punishment that they feel they might as well laugh behind their hands and just carry on beating people up etc. What do you think? Do you really believe that they do not know right from wrong?
You wont remember this country when the death penalty was part of the law for a capital crime. You keep wittling on about the death penalty having been proved to do no good. That is a standard PC Plonker statement! How do you know that? Why do we see a murder about every day now when in those days there were so few that they were headline news? Try answering that one satisfactorily. The truth is that you don't know and all the leftie statistics don't add up to a thing. Nothing like seeing the real results of such policies to know what is really happening!
The whole point is that the law is supposed to be there to protect the general public despite what it appears to be at the moment. The State has the right of the sword and if the murder statistics have wound up to today's gross proportions, then the punishment policies are failing abjectly and it is necessary to intstitute a penalty that will really deter those who have a tendency to taking human life. If it takes the death penalty to do that, then that is the right way to go.
Les
Les
What is important is the lesson learned from the punishment. You don't actually learn anything by being dead. Nor is it actually that great a punishment if you think about it. Everyone dies at some point, it's one of lifes few certainties. However, if you had to spend 20 years doing locked up in a small room with no chance of parole, perhpas throw in a bit of hard labour for good measure........ Or, even use some of that to re-habilitate the person so that they could be useful upon release, then surely that is better than killing someone.
The death penalty is driven by revenge, not justice. Why shouldn't the family of the person executed get their revenge? And so on? Where does it end?
Geezer
30 June 2008, 02:10 PM
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I did not say that you are a PC Plonker Martin, but that your thinking appeared to be the same.
You are also in denial about the effects of the death sentence.
The other point to Pete Brant was the difference in population of this country in between the times that those figures were arrived at, and when were the last figures published Pete?
Les
You are also in denial about the effects of the death sentence.
The other point to Pete Brant was the difference in population of this country in between the times that those figures were arrived at, and when were the last figures published Pete?
Les
Les, sorry I'm being thick, what effects do you mean?
30 June 2008, 02:14 PM
#114
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No the death penalty would be used to rid society of monsters that have no further purpose in life. ie they can not be rehabilitated and pose a constant threat. The more of these you sentence to death the less you have in society or a burden to society which in my opinion is only a good thing 
30 June 2008, 02:22 PM
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No the death penalty would be used to rid society of monsters that have no further purpose in life. ie they can not be rehabilitated and pose a constant threat. The more of these you sentence to death the less you have in society or a burden to society which in my opinion is only a good thing
And it's not really a right of you or I to decide whether someone has any further purpose.
30 June 2008, 02:27 PM
#116
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It's my right to voice my opinion that they should be executed, as it is with everyone else to voice their opinion. The opinions that are in the majority are what should be acted upon by Government.
Last edited by Bravo2zero_sps; 30 June 2008 at 02:29 PM.
30 June 2008, 02:30 PM
#117
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The average Death Row prisoner costs the US govt £70,000 a year, the average "ordinary" inmate costs $35,000. The average length of time on Death Row is 7 years.
30 June 2008, 02:35 PM
#118
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No but they are still a burden to society in terms of cost and also that they may well be influencing other like minded individuals who they are locked up with who may be released at a later date.
It's my right to voice my opinion that they should be executed, as it is with everyone else to voice their opinion. The opinions that are in the majority are what should be acted upon by Government.
It's my right to voice my opinion that they should be executed, as it is with everyone else to voice their opinion. The opinions that are in the majority are what should be acted upon by Government.
The Governments job is absolutely not to do what the majority want it to do, it's job is to carry out what it promised in it's election manefsto.
30 June 2008, 02:38 PM
#119
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Its all a moot point. The Death penalty is simply not going to be introduced whilst we remain part of the EU, and unless the UKIP get into power, (which is never, ever going to happen) then that's that.
30 June 2008, 02:42 PM
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Geezer