FMIC
04 July 2008, 06:51 PM
#31
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The standard map still copes extremely well on the Impreza which travels from a climate of -15C to a climate of 40C ........ I'm pretty sure it can cope with the tiny decrease in charge temp that a FMIC can supply.
Yes, I'm a newbie ... but that doesn't make me a thickie
Yes, I'm a newbie ... but that doesn't make me a thickie
05 July 2008, 09:05 AM
#32
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i think the problem may be that in fitting fmic your boost levels may creep up. if your injectors are standard etc this will run lean. this is where i think things will go wrong.
when i fit one on mine 93wrx boost level crept from 1.0bar - 1.2+ i had a map tweak tho. already have "scoobyecu" in it
when i fit one on mine 93wrx boost level crept from 1.0bar - 1.2+ i had a map tweak tho. already have "scoobyecu" in it
05 July 2008, 11:03 AM
#33
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i think the problem may be that in fitting fmic your boost levels may creep up. if your injectors are standard etc this will run lean. this is where i think things will go wrong.
when i fit one on mine 93wrx boost level crept from 1.0bar - 1.2+ i had a map tweak tho. already have "scoobyecu" in it
when i fit one on mine 93wrx boost level crept from 1.0bar - 1.2+ i had a map tweak tho. already have "scoobyecu" in it
I understand runing lean is a no no
05 July 2008, 11:21 AM
#34
The standard map still copes extremely well on the Impreza which travels from a climate of -15C to a climate of 40C ........ I'm pretty sure it can cope with the tiny decrease in charge temp that a FMIC can supply.
Yes, I'm a newbie ... but that doesn't make me a thickie
Yes, I'm a newbie ... but that doesn't make me a thickie
05 July 2008, 01:19 PM
#35
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Basic principle: Heat = loss of performance. Higher ACT = less power ECU pulls back ignition. Very high ACTs as can happen at sustained high speeds = potential engine killer!
FMIC significantly lower and stable ACT = More power , all of the time. No heat soak etc...
On a classic, levels in excess of 300bhp can cause ACTs to rise alarmingly, the ECU can only do so much.
On std cars its much less of an issue, but then you wouldn't be worried about ACTs so much on a std car. I't only becomes more of a concern when chasing extra ponies.
Suggest you speak to Harvey who has actually bothered to measure ACTs and is the most qualified person to comment.
Ns04
FMIC significantly lower and stable ACT = More power , all of the time. No heat soak etc...
On a classic, levels in excess of 300bhp can cause ACTs to rise alarmingly, the ECU can only do so much.
On std cars its much less of an issue, but then you wouldn't be worried about ACTs so much on a std car. I't only becomes more of a concern when chasing extra ponies.
Suggest you speak to Harvey who has actually bothered to measure ACTs and is the most qualified person to comment.
Ns04
05 July 2008, 02:43 PM
#36
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Let me get this right, if the standard injecters cannot inject enough fuel, then its not just a case of bigger injectors, you will need bigger Fuel pump, fuel regulator, and obviously a new map.
I have just suffered a big end failure, so am trying 2 find the cause and maybe the rectification.
If it was heat soak that caused my big end to let go, what evidence would there be when striped down?
The car is 311 bhp 279 lbft
I have just suffered a big end failure, so am trying 2 find the cause and maybe the rectification.
If it was heat soak that caused my big end to let go, what evidence would there be when striped down?
The car is 311 bhp 279 lbft
05 July 2008, 04:14 PM
#37
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311 on the std pump would not be recommended AFAIK.
Walbro 255lph recommended upgrade.
Suggest you get some advice from someone like David at APi
Ns04
Walbro 255lph recommended upgrade.
Suggest you get some advice from someone like David at APi
Ns04
05 July 2008, 04:20 PM
#38
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I'm still confused as to why the same Impreza will operate at -15C ....... and at +40C without the need for a remap? And without blown engines?
All we are talking about with a FMIC is cooling the intake air a bit more than the TMIC, surely? Probably less of a difference in air temp. than driving from Scotland to South of France!
It really is that simple ...... isn't it?
All we are talking about with a FMIC is cooling the intake air a bit more than the TMIC, surely? Probably less of a difference in air temp. than driving from Scotland to South of France!
It really is that simple ...... isn't it?
05 July 2008, 04:28 PM
#39
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But add -15 to improved cooling and the charge density will soar, boost will remain constant, eventually the injectors/ecu map are just not able to cope.
Of thread but....
Mine is under-going an up-grade currently, the turbo is fine up to 4800 rpm, where the mixture suddenly goes dangerously lean ( AET-Turbos hub dyno last Saturday ), but everything else is the same as when the VF35 was on, and the boost control hasn't been altered.... but still goes dangerously lean. Because the turbo is more efficient at compressing the air without heating it up, thus the charge air density is higher.
All IMHO
DunxC
Of thread but....
Mine is under-going an up-grade currently, the turbo is fine up to 4800 rpm, where the mixture suddenly goes dangerously lean ( AET-Turbos hub dyno last Saturday ), but everything else is the same as when the VF35 was on, and the boost control hasn't been altered.... but still goes dangerously lean. Because the turbo is more efficient at compressing the air without heating it up, thus the charge air density is higher.
All IMHO
DunxC
05 July 2008, 04:34 PM
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But lets say we are driving in a temperature of +40C, the FMIC pulls that down to an equivalent of +25C ......... thats just the same as a TMIC car driving on a summers day in the UK at +25C - the map copes with that absolutely without trouble and engines don't blow up ...... so, a remap is not required, is it not?
I'm struggling to make it any more complicated than that - or I am missing something?
05 July 2008, 04:51 PM
#41
fmic
i am thinling of fitting a fmic to my wrx without a remap,but i have a 6k ecu,ported headers,full de-cat,walbro and i will be fitting 440 injectors & hks induction kit. would i benifit from fitting one with these mods
05 July 2008, 04:53 PM
#42
fmic
i am thinking of fitting a fmic to my wrx without a remap. i have a 6k ecu,ported headers,full de-cat,walbro and i will be fitting 440 injectors & hks induction kit. would i benifit from fitting one with these mods
05 July 2008, 06:42 PM
#43
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you cant just fit the injectors like that mate it needs a map. otherwise it will be squirting thinking theyre 380's or whatever you had before.
ns04 mate! ive a stock 93wrx pump more power than the above fella and scoobyclinic tell me its fine. had on dyno to check
ns04 mate! ive a stock 93wrx pump more power than the above fella and scoobyclinic tell me its fine. had on dyno to check
05 July 2008, 08:09 PM
#44
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IMHO
Simply if the density is higher due to increased efficiency, more o2 is entering the engine, the boost is the same level as is the fuel, the intake temperature at the MAF sensor still sees 25C.... Some people with early classics have seen 100C lower charge air temperatures when adding an FMIC, the ecu can't cope with a change on that scale without help from a laptop.
DunxC
P.S. As an example a WRC car in Argentina at high altitude loses about 100 bhp, same boost same fuel, same FMIC, but much lower air density, hence less oxygen, and result equals far less power. Opposite means the engine runs lean.
Simply if the density is higher due to increased efficiency, more o2 is entering the engine, the boost is the same level as is the fuel, the intake temperature at the MAF sensor still sees 25C.... Some people with early classics have seen 100C lower charge air temperatures when adding an FMIC, the ecu can't cope with a change on that scale without help from a laptop.
DunxC
P.S. As an example a WRC car in Argentina at high altitude loses about 100 bhp, same boost same fuel, same FMIC, but much lower air density, hence less oxygen, and result equals far less power. Opposite means the engine runs lean.
Last edited by dunx; 05 July 2008 at 08:14 PM.
06 July 2008, 11:20 AM
#47
Andy : "Twonk" is not in my dictionary. What is the definition ?
I am quite happy going about my business but I would not knowingly sell someone an FMIC without pointing out the need for a remap.
I ran my own STi 3 Wagon in semi-standard form at 335 bhp and 333 ft.lbs on the Standard ECU along with standard injectors, top mount and turbo. The ECU was capable of handling that but a change of injectors, top mount or alternative turbo and I would have been entering areas where engine disaster at that power level or similar became very probable.
As most people already know I monitored air charge temperatures with great care and air at the throttle body exceeded the temperature scale on my guage at 70 C. in a sprint from 0-100 mph.
I have done rudimentary experiments on a New Age STi and the figure of 50 deg. C. was easily achieved. I have more work to do in this area but initial conclusions are that there have been big improvements over the last 7 years with Subaru intercooling and while I am sure it is quite capable on standard cars 2003 onwards this is not the case on highly modified cars.
Absolutely correct.
PetesDad : The WRC team have not changed intercoolers or made any detailed change to engine characteristics and the map they are using at sea level is not the map they are using in the Australian Desert or the High Andes. The cars are remapped before different events.
There appears to be a basic lack of knowledge for some people regards what is happening inside a turbo charged engine and the operation of the ECU so I hope this will help.
Changing the intercooler, whether it is top mount or front mount not only changes (hopefully reduces) air charge temperatures but also may alter the pressure drop from the turbo to the inlet manifold. If the intercooler is efficient there will also be a boost pressure increase and clearly the flow characteristics from the turbo to the combustion chamber have been altered.
A map is a 3D affair and when Subaru produced the ECU it was to take care of the perameters the car was likely to meet in standard form anywhere from Canada or Norway to Australia or Bahrain. (Subaru actually have different ECUs for different markets). What they did not envisage was different boost profiles or levels of boost from different turbos, different fuelling characteristics from a change of injectors or different charge characteristics from an intercooler change. Because the map is 3D it is quite easy to end up in areas of the map with a change of intercooler that have not actually been mapped because with the original top mount it was not possible to enter these areas. Fitting an efficient front mount can greatly alter the presentation of air charge to the combustion chamber. More fuel is obviously required but it is not a straight line requirement for more fuel across the board because amongst other things the turbo will produce more boost and the boost profile will have changed. Even with more fuelling there are pockets where the map must be adjusted to take care of the variations that have now been introduced to the system.
The latest ECUs are streets ahead of the 93-96 versions and have considerably more compensation allowing them to handle varying scenarios model on model but they are not infallable hence the need for aftermarket ECUs that tuners can fine adjust for situations outwith the standard ECU perameters.
Now it goes further than this because the New Age cars that I supply with front mounts have an integral cold air kit and this involves relocating the MAF sensor in a new MAF sensor tube which is similar to the old but slightly different. Just for that reason a remap on a New Age is necessary but even without the CAK a remap would be prudent.
Cast your mind back to 2002. APS CAKs were the must have mod in the days when top cars had 360-380 bhp. I fitted one of these and 11 miles later had succeeded in picking up number 2 piston in the bore. At the time nobody could throw light on the issue but after an extensive engine rebuild and with great input from Bob Rawle we were able to determine that there was a section of the map where the standard ECU ran very weak. In the end we were able to conclude that because the air had to pass through a 90 degree bend out of the inner wing just before the MAF tube, then the air passing the MAF tube was not all flowing at uniform rate so the MAF sensor could not read the air volume accurately and unfortunately, in my case it was grossly under reading the air volume at higher revs. Think about it. Air on the outside of a bend travels faster than air on the inside of the bend to maintain the flow.
These findings were made public and I now think it is accepted practice to rescale the MAF sensor or have a complete remap when fitting an inner wing CAK.
I was already in contact with APS on other matters and our findings were given to them. Indeed their Engineering Director spent several days with me here in Darlington when they wanted to discuss the UK distributorship. I told them then that they needed to have a warning on their CAKs that a rescale or remap was necessary but at the time they ignored that advice.
I have no wish to sell FMICs or anything else for that matter if it results in engine damage or unforeseeable expense by the purchaser so as far as I am concerned, New Age FMIC requires a remap for several reasons not just the CAK and Classic FMIC without a remap is Russian Roulette. Some people on lower power cars with inefficient intercooler cores or pipework may get away with it but a remap is cheaper than an engine build and several tuners, myself included, would be happy to check out the AFRs and give straight forward advice but don't plan for any FMIC or bigger TMIC for that matter without the buget for a remap or rescale at least.
I am quite happy going about my business but I would not knowingly sell someone an FMIC without pointing out the need for a remap.
I ran my own STi 3 Wagon in semi-standard form at 335 bhp and 333 ft.lbs on the Standard ECU along with standard injectors, top mount and turbo. The ECU was capable of handling that but a change of injectors, top mount or alternative turbo and I would have been entering areas where engine disaster at that power level or similar became very probable.
As most people already know I monitored air charge temperatures with great care and air at the throttle body exceeded the temperature scale on my guage at 70 C. in a sprint from 0-100 mph.
I have done rudimentary experiments on a New Age STi and the figure of 50 deg. C. was easily achieved. I have more work to do in this area but initial conclusions are that there have been big improvements over the last 7 years with Subaru intercooling and while I am sure it is quite capable on standard cars 2003 onwards this is not the case on highly modified cars.
IMHO
Simply if the density is higher due to increased efficiency, more o2 is entering the engine, the boost is the same level as is the fuel, the intake temperature at the MAF sensor still sees 25C.... Some people with early classics have seen 100C lower charge air temperatures when adding an FMIC, the ecu can't cope with a change on that scale without help from a laptop.
DunxC
P.S. As an example a WRC car in Argentina at high altitude loses about 100 bhp, same boost same fuel, same FMIC, but much lower air density, hence less oxygen, and result equals far less power. Opposite means the engine runs lean.
Simply if the density is higher due to increased efficiency, more o2 is entering the engine, the boost is the same level as is the fuel, the intake temperature at the MAF sensor still sees 25C.... Some people with early classics have seen 100C lower charge air temperatures when adding an FMIC, the ecu can't cope with a change on that scale without help from a laptop.
DunxC
P.S. As an example a WRC car in Argentina at high altitude loses about 100 bhp, same boost same fuel, same FMIC, but much lower air density, hence less oxygen, and result equals far less power. Opposite means the engine runs lean.
But the engine doesn't blow up ...... I think the standard map can cope with far more than some would like us to believe!
There appears to be a basic lack of knowledge for some people regards what is happening inside a turbo charged engine and the operation of the ECU so I hope this will help.
Changing the intercooler, whether it is top mount or front mount not only changes (hopefully reduces) air charge temperatures but also may alter the pressure drop from the turbo to the inlet manifold. If the intercooler is efficient there will also be a boost pressure increase and clearly the flow characteristics from the turbo to the combustion chamber have been altered.
A map is a 3D affair and when Subaru produced the ECU it was to take care of the perameters the car was likely to meet in standard form anywhere from Canada or Norway to Australia or Bahrain. (Subaru actually have different ECUs for different markets). What they did not envisage was different boost profiles or levels of boost from different turbos, different fuelling characteristics from a change of injectors or different charge characteristics from an intercooler change. Because the map is 3D it is quite easy to end up in areas of the map with a change of intercooler that have not actually been mapped because with the original top mount it was not possible to enter these areas. Fitting an efficient front mount can greatly alter the presentation of air charge to the combustion chamber. More fuel is obviously required but it is not a straight line requirement for more fuel across the board because amongst other things the turbo will produce more boost and the boost profile will have changed. Even with more fuelling there are pockets where the map must be adjusted to take care of the variations that have now been introduced to the system.
The latest ECUs are streets ahead of the 93-96 versions and have considerably more compensation allowing them to handle varying scenarios model on model but they are not infallable hence the need for aftermarket ECUs that tuners can fine adjust for situations outwith the standard ECU perameters.
Now it goes further than this because the New Age cars that I supply with front mounts have an integral cold air kit and this involves relocating the MAF sensor in a new MAF sensor tube which is similar to the old but slightly different. Just for that reason a remap on a New Age is necessary but even without the CAK a remap would be prudent.
Cast your mind back to 2002. APS CAKs were the must have mod in the days when top cars had 360-380 bhp. I fitted one of these and 11 miles later had succeeded in picking up number 2 piston in the bore. At the time nobody could throw light on the issue but after an extensive engine rebuild and with great input from Bob Rawle we were able to determine that there was a section of the map where the standard ECU ran very weak. In the end we were able to conclude that because the air had to pass through a 90 degree bend out of the inner wing just before the MAF tube, then the air passing the MAF tube was not all flowing at uniform rate so the MAF sensor could not read the air volume accurately and unfortunately, in my case it was grossly under reading the air volume at higher revs. Think about it. Air on the outside of a bend travels faster than air on the inside of the bend to maintain the flow.
These findings were made public and I now think it is accepted practice to rescale the MAF sensor or have a complete remap when fitting an inner wing CAK.
I was already in contact with APS on other matters and our findings were given to them. Indeed their Engineering Director spent several days with me here in Darlington when they wanted to discuss the UK distributorship. I told them then that they needed to have a warning on their CAKs that a rescale or remap was necessary but at the time they ignored that advice.
I have no wish to sell FMICs or anything else for that matter if it results in engine damage or unforeseeable expense by the purchaser so as far as I am concerned, New Age FMIC requires a remap for several reasons not just the CAK and Classic FMIC without a remap is Russian Roulette. Some people on lower power cars with inefficient intercooler cores or pipework may get away with it but a remap is cheaper than an engine build and several tuners, myself included, would be happy to check out the AFRs and give straight forward advice but don't plan for any FMIC or bigger TMIC for that matter without the buget for a remap or rescale at least.
Last edited by harvey; 07 July 2008 at 09:55 AM. Reason: Spelling
07 July 2008, 09:56 AM
#48
Why spend money on what is supposed to be an upgrade and not have a remap to deal with the changed operating perameters. Apart from anything else you cannot get the best out of fitting an FMIC without remapping so the logic of going for an FMIC is defeated.
07 July 2008, 10:21 AM
#49
i dont get this rubbish
the car WONT need a remap,,,,, it will need the car setting up to check the boost is the same
the cars inlet temp is measured at the manifold NOT and the airbox only as sugested,,,,, as if thats the case then i can see why scoobies always melt and have a bad reputation,,,, compressed air is hotter than normal,,,,, hence they measure it on the inlet
get a FMIC and KEEP THE SAME BOOST LEVEL, adjust the actuator correctly and the power band will be the same,,,,,, why do people insist that cars are some sort of black art
the example of france in the summer and scotland in the winter is correct ffs,,, aslong as the boost is the same and the fueling checked to be sure ( what a set up is ) then nothing will happen
some tuners LOVE to confuse people,,,,,, the factory ECU's are VERY VERY safe maps,,,, its when they get mapped by the " pros" that the issues start, you know how many crap mappers there are in the country,,,, people who copy chips then tweek it and cars get cold running issues, flat spots when you hit the throttle and the tuner tells them " its part of car mods "
fit a FMIC and get it set up to the same boost, theres NO worrys there as it wont run lean,,,, cause the boost AT THE INLET MANIFOLD is the same presure for the fuel going in
seriously guys open your minds a little
the car WONT need a remap,,,,, it will need the car setting up to check the boost is the same
the cars inlet temp is measured at the manifold NOT and the airbox only as sugested,,,,, as if thats the case then i can see why scoobies always melt and have a bad reputation,,,, compressed air is hotter than normal,,,,, hence they measure it on the inlet
get a FMIC and KEEP THE SAME BOOST LEVEL, adjust the actuator correctly and the power band will be the same,,,,,, why do people insist that cars are some sort of black art
the example of france in the summer and scotland in the winter is correct ffs,,, aslong as the boost is the same and the fueling checked to be sure ( what a set up is ) then nothing will happen
some tuners LOVE to confuse people,,,,,, the factory ECU's are VERY VERY safe maps,,,, its when they get mapped by the " pros" that the issues start, you know how many crap mappers there are in the country,,,, people who copy chips then tweek it and cars get cold running issues, flat spots when you hit the throttle and the tuner tells them " its part of car mods "
fit a FMIC and get it set up to the same boost, theres NO worrys there as it wont run lean,,,, cause the boost AT THE INLET MANIFOLD is the same presure for the fuel going in
seriously guys open your minds a little
07 July 2008, 10:25 AM
#50
remap is for MORE BOOST,,, not for basic mods with the same boost presure,,, would you also recomend a remap for a higher flow fuel pump,,,,,, or just a adjustment of the fuel presure regulator ???
ecu maps from the factory are safe maps,, SIMPLE,,, they are designed to asjust the fueling/igniton based on the temps it recives due to different temps there is every day otherwise factory engines will melt,,,,,, but they dont unless theres a issue that causes it
harvey im SURE you know what your doing,,,, but you clearly have no understanding on how ECU's work,,,, do you map cars out of interest and if so how did you learn about it ?
07 July 2008, 10:33 AM
#51
ps: why will a engine MELT when the air entering it is colder than normal ??
melting is caused by the spark pulgs getting HOT tips and pre ignition ajusting the timing forward without the ECU,,,,, colder air would erm,,,,, well COOL the spark plugs,,, thus if anything reducion the chance of pre ignition ( can decrese the timing as the spark plugs will still fire on time,, that good right ?)
does your chocolate melt quicker in the fridge than it does in the kicthen cupboards ?
melting is caused by the spark pulgs getting HOT tips and pre ignition ajusting the timing forward without the ECU,,,,, colder air would erm,,,,, well COOL the spark plugs,,, thus if anything reducion the chance of pre ignition ( can decrese the timing as the spark plugs will still fire on time,, that good right ?)
does your chocolate melt quicker in the fridge than it does in the kicthen cupboards ?
07 July 2008, 10:43 AM
#52
pps: just been reminded by someone about flow could affect it,,,, which is correct but there aint gonna be much more flow i doubt ( but theres no way of testing ) for this bloke whos told he NEEDS to spend 500 quid on a remap
as said how many " remaps" are just a map flashed on the ecu
how long do most people wait for a "remap"
as said how many " remaps" are just a map flashed on the ecu
how long do most people wait for a "remap"
07 July 2008, 12:20 PM
#53
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So, what you are saying is that a different map operates in different climates?
I'm prepared to believe an authoritive answer to that if one appears.
Otherwise, I would suggest that anyone who travels from North of Scotland to the South of France gets a re-map booked straight away ......... which, as we all know, is poppycock!!
The change in charge temperature will not approach that seen on a winters day in Scotland versus a summers day in France/Spain ...... therefore, as far as I can see, the standard map will cope well enough.
Talk of exploding engines is pure madness IMHO.
I'm prepared to believe an authoritive answer to that if one appears.
Otherwise, I would suggest that anyone who travels from North of Scotland to the South of France gets a re-map booked straight away ......... which, as we all know, is poppycock!!
The change in charge temperature will not approach that seen on a winters day in Scotland versus a summers day in France/Spain ...... therefore, as far as I can see, the standard map will cope well enough.
Talk of exploding engines is pure madness IMHO.
07 July 2008, 12:26 PM
#54
think your missing the point,, theres a error with your car mate as cars are tested to ALL conditions,,,,, from extreme cold to extreme hot temps so if there IS a issue its either been remapped OR there was a error with the car !
07 July 2008, 03:55 PM
#55
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The car was pretty much standard. It didn't do it all the time, but definitely down on power and did splutter from time to time.
Hey, i'll fit an APS FMIC to my car without a remap if the person who bets there will be no problem pays for the subsequent rebuild.
07 July 2008, 05:46 PM
#57
mate it dont mean the intercooler is the reason though
the ecu CONTROLS THE FUELING AND IGNITION,,, hence its there,, if fits sensors to adjust it HENCE ITS THERE
if the same settings are there for the same boost it will adjust it like it would in different conditions/speeds ect
understand HOW a ecu works,, what a MAF sensor does, what a ACT sensor does, what a map sensor does, what a water temp sensor does
these are all there to adjust the car to give the ignition and fuel,,, its that simple
remap is needed when you ADJUST the settings to need MORE fuel, LESS ignition due to more boost ect ect ect
standard settings are fine as they have safe maps fitted to the car UNLIKE the tweeked maps that have LESS margin for error !!!
the ecu CONTROLS THE FUELING AND IGNITION,,, hence its there,, if fits sensors to adjust it HENCE ITS THERE
if the same settings are there for the same boost it will adjust it like it would in different conditions/speeds ect
understand HOW a ecu works,, what a MAF sensor does, what a ACT sensor does, what a map sensor does, what a water temp sensor does
these are all there to adjust the car to give the ignition and fuel,,, its that simple
remap is needed when you ADJUST the settings to need MORE fuel, LESS ignition due to more boost ect ect ect
standard settings are fine as they have safe maps fitted to the car UNLIKE the tweeked maps that have LESS margin for error !!!
07 July 2008, 07:37 PM
#58
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey
Why spend money on what is supposed to be an upgrade and not have a remap to deal with the changed operating perameters. Apart from anything else you cannot get the best out of fitting an FMIC without remapping so the logic of going for an FMIC is defeated.
rubbish, if you have hot ACTs' then fiting a FMIC is better,,, simple really
remap is for MORE BOOST,,, not for basic mods with the same boost presure,,, would you also recomend a remap for a higher flow fuel pump,,,,,, or just a adjustment of the fuel presure regulator ???
ecu maps from the factory are safe maps,, SIMPLE,,, they are designed to asjust the fueling/igniton based on the temps it recives due to different temps there is every day otherwise factory engines will melt,,,,,, but they dont unless theres a issue that causes it
harvey im SURE you know what your doing,,,, but you clearly have no understanding on how ECU's work,,,, do you map cars out of interest and if so how did you learn about it ?
Originally Posted by harvey
Why spend money on what is supposed to be an upgrade and not have a remap to deal with the changed operating perameters. Apart from anything else you cannot get the best out of fitting an FMIC without remapping so the logic of going for an FMIC is defeated.
rubbish, if you have hot ACTs' then fiting a FMIC is better,,, simple really
remap is for MORE BOOST,,, not for basic mods with the same boost presure,,, would you also recomend a remap for a higher flow fuel pump,,,,,, or just a adjustment of the fuel presure regulator ???
ecu maps from the factory are safe maps,, SIMPLE,,, they are designed to asjust the fueling/igniton based on the temps it recives due to different temps there is every day otherwise factory engines will melt,,,,,, but they dont unless theres a issue that causes it
harvey im SURE you know what your doing,,,, but you clearly have no understanding on how ECU's work,,,, do you map cars out of interest and if so how did you learn about it ?
We offer a full engine rebuild service at competitive rates should you have any need of such a service in the future
I have just looked through some of your previous posts with some amusement. This one for instance :
otherwise the isle of white would be banned as thats closed for TT racing
Its spelt Isle of Wight and the TT isnt there its on the Isle of Man
HTH
Oh and i think Moley knows his onions as he probably insures a good majority of people on this forum
HTH
Oh and i think Moley knows his onions as he probably insures a good majority of people on this forum
07 July 2008, 07:47 PM
#59
mate i understand how cars work, as thats the job i do, im not a car mechanic but a technical development supervisor,,,, now this has **** all to do with ecu's i did spend ALOT of time researching aftermarket ecu's for my erst about 6 or 7 years ago,,,,, thats when i noticed the BAD things and went to understand how ecu's work
spelling has **** all relevence with this as does geography,,,, your reply to WHERE you learned you mapping DOES, how long you learned about electronics does also and what access to companys for info you have,,, i have ALOT of info available to me from bosch, lucus trained engineer that i work with, soverign ect ect ect
this helps alot when im bored and have questions,,, such as batch firing coil packs for a coil on plug conversion i was thinking of and was told what ecu's control seperate and what in series ( such as the renault coil on plugs )
now BASIC stuff such as a standard car with the same boost and a MAF to measure the flow,,, that means it will be fine,,,,,, dont adjust the boost to standard and check the fueling then theres a issue,,, remapping is OVERKILL,,,,, its like rebuilding a engine every service
spelling has **** all relevence with this as does geography,,,, your reply to WHERE you learned you mapping DOES, how long you learned about electronics does also and what access to companys for info you have,,, i have ALOT of info available to me from bosch, lucus trained engineer that i work with, soverign ect ect ect
this helps alot when im bored and have questions,,, such as batch firing coil packs for a coil on plug conversion i was thinking of and was told what ecu's control seperate and what in series ( such as the renault coil on plugs )
now BASIC stuff such as a standard car with the same boost and a MAF to measure the flow,,, that means it will be fine,,,,,, dont adjust the boost to standard and check the fueling then theres a issue,,, remapping is OVERKILL,,,,, its like rebuilding a engine every service