Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

Put me down for a nice 997 please Santa

*Runs away....*

TelBoy

Paul, NASA say the hottest year on record so far is 2005. NASA, not Paul's Statistics Library. But even then, i'm saying this is irrelevant in the general scheme of things.

coolangatta

Is the inconvenient truth that you are, in fact, Mr Al himself?

Paul3446

What exactly is the shift of the last 50 years? We've established that global temperature last year was the same level as 30 years ago. I'm not aware of any massive rise in the 20 years before that?

TelBoy

No

But despite his preaching style, i think he does have a point. Not a point that 20-something petrol-eating car owners particularly want to listen to though.

PeteBrant

There's a 100+ page thread on Global warming doing the rounds - If that one didn't reach any frm of concensus whatsoever, I am willing to bet at least a ********, that this one won't either ')

coolangatta

'20-something' as in age or number of Cos I'm 40-something

TelBoy

Forget the outright numbers. A shift in unpredictablily, changeability, whatever you want to call it. Of course it could all be down to increased media coverage etc etc, but unless i'm going madder more quickly than even i realised, weather today ain't what it used to be, not even close. Like everyone else i can't prove it's man's doing, but i don't think that gives us the moral high ground to assume that it isn't.

TelBoy

Go on then, let's hear your viewpoint. Load of old bollocks or do you see this planet changing in the same ways i do?

TelBoy

Exactly. Ultimately it's pointless. I just jumped in at the point a wholly irrelevant soundbyte was cited, that's all.

Paul3446

I think that unpredictability is very hard to measure.

For example when Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, everyone said it's climate change, blah blah. However since then, the hurricane seasons have been relatively quiet. However a relatively quiet hurricane season doesn't make the news headlines every day for a week. All you remember though is the bad season.

By the way, Hurricane activity has nothing to do with climate change or global warming. But say it often enough and people believe it.

Paul3446

I'm not sure why Global temperature dropping is irrelevant, can you imagine the uproar if temperatures had gone up over the last 10 years. My God, it would be hysteria!

TelBoy

Again, not an indisputable fact, Paul (the hurricane/global warming thing). Far from it. But i digress.

PeteBrant

To be fair Tel, There were a few of us that tried to give a somewhat more balanced debate rather than the utterly one sided "Global warming and climate change is a load of bollocks" camp - But it was ultimately in vain

TelBoy

Your last post amply demonstrates what you want to believe, Paul. Fair enough. It also demonstrates why debate is futile. A bit like a football team, once you've made your decision who to support, you can't change your mind. C'est la vie.

Paul3446

OK, let's not debate it then!

coolangatta

That's a fair challenge... and I accept
So, I've enjoyed absolutely scorching summers as a teenager in the UK during the mid 70's (those were the days I can tell you ) but I've also experienced many more absolute washouts and seriously cold summers too.
I'm a big believer in personal (anecdotal) experience. My old dad, 77 years old this year, is a very keen gardener/veggie grower, and has been since his early twenties. I've questioned him regarding the 'climate change' issue. He monitors closely (and records), temperature, season timing, rainfall, harvest success etc. It may not be a definitive record but he says there is limited/to no change in conditions, on average, in his experience.
I am heavily involved in an industry that has hugely benefited from the, as I see it, 'climate change nee global warming scam'. So obviously I have no axe to grind on this side of the argument.
From my perspective, it's as plain as Mr Al Gores paunch that we are, at best, misinformed (read conned)

OllyK

Group buy on a ********?

Klaatu

Where do you get your science from, media, Al Gore, the IPCC? Have you tried Royal Naval records, spanning 200 years or more, completely ignored by "climatologists"? No? Yeah, thought so!

Klaatu

According to four global sources used by the IPCC and "climatologists" point to a "cooling" off, in line with a drop in solar activity. Russian scientists, those that do not have a vested interest in IPCC grants, predicted a cooling, or at least flattening, in temperatures. Bugger me, it's happening and has been since 1998.

Klaatu

Ah, Al "I invented the internet" Gore's mocumentary. I now know where you get your "sceince" from! Can you tell me what has the death of his son (Sad though that may be) and his failed political career as documented in his "film" got to do with AGW? Did you know Al Gore used the now discredited "hockey stick" graph, along with at least 30 other untruths? Did you know Al Gore's wealth was derived from oil and mining, there is a whole island of people who don't value Al and "Oxy", his company. Did you know Al Gore now has a carbon trading company based in the UK? Some would say that would suggest he has a vested interest in trading carbon as a commodity, to do what exactly? Make money, save the planet?

Klaatu

Ignorance is bliss it appears!

Klaatu

Point to a period in geological history, NOT human history, where the planet didn't change? If you can do that, then maybe you'll be worth listening to.

Klaatu

Ah Peter, quoting out of context, again!

Klaatu

And then there's people who HAVE studied planetary science, physics, chemistry and computer science and KNOW facts rather than believe in consensus.

jono300

iTrader: (8)

Been reading this thread with interest as funny enough during one off the many heavy downpours we had yesterday up here in scotland it also made me wonder why the summers were not what they used to be ??

global warming - could be ?? but then come holiday time we all jet off to spain, turkey etc every year why ?? purely because there summers are still the same as they have always been - weeks / months off lovely hot days.

question is - if it is global warming effecting the world how come " they " still get there 4 months plus off summer weather ??!!


p.s aware that spain / turkey etc is nearer the equator before anyone replies stating this !!! is this enough to prevent them loosing there summers like we have thou ??

TelBoy

Klaatu, you know what, you sound exactly like all the experts who told us categorically that the housing market wasn't going to collapse, that the world wasn't headed for a long and sustained recession. You can pick apart post after post with wanton glee if you want (and it seems you DO want to), poke fun about which report has or hasn't been studied ad nauseum. But you know what, pal? I think you're wrong. And i think it's going to come up and hit you so far up the **** one day soon that you won't know what's hit you, and waaaay too late for you to actually do anything about it.

I hope i'm wrong, i hope my grandchildren can tell me what a stupid old sod i was back in 2008 thinking mankind was systematically destroying the planet, but while i have the ability to believe that we ARE influencing things in a detrimental way, i'm going to be doing my bit to try and ensure i'm not exacerbating the situation. Don't mock those who disagree with you my friend, look around you and see how many property owners thought it could never happen to them. Well guess what. It just has. The climate could be next, and after all said and done, you know as little about that likelihood as i do, but you're cosseting yourself in statistics which suit. I'm not. Cheers.

Paul3446

You are right Tel, no-one knows for certain, but until temperatures actually start to rise, I'm firmly on the side of the sceptics.

That doesn't mean I don't recycle and do my bit, I just don't happen to think that CO2 and temperature change are related.

coolangatta

Our totally 'trustworthy' BBC appear to be perpetuating the myth too!
Yesterday, as part of their reporting on the G8 summit and related climate change issue, they reported that rice farming in Hokkaido (northern island of Japan) was now possible because temperatures are rising. They reported that previously temperatures had been too low to grow rice in Hokkaido.
Also in the same few minutes of nonsense they said that crops in southern Japan were failing due to it being too hot to grow rice.
I was more than a little surprised by these revelations

I asked my interpreter ( a very well read Japanese engineer in his early 60's) if it was new to be able to grow rice in Hokkaido. He said 'certainly not', although the season is shorter in Hokkaido, limited by the weather, rice has been grown there as long as most other places in Japan. He also immediately pointed out that you can't just decide, at short notice, to grow rice as the infrastructure needed (the irrigation system) has been engineered over many, many years. A total and massive re-engineering of the countryside would be required to switch to rice growing from any other agriculture.

We were both surprised by the 'failing crop' statement as, if it were true, it would be headline news in a country where rice is the staple food.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Well remember that the romans use to grow grapes here in the uk (york/newcastle area's) which you cant really do now, its a natural phenomenon, though it doesnt mean that we dont add to that, its just that people kick the *** out of it and cause a panic.

Now if you want to stop "climate change" blow the planet up or if you want more "balance" plant more trees

Tony