jonc

Telboy, why are you bothering to check this thread? You've made your mind up that you're the hapless victim and that anything to do with global warming is completely man made and if we don't stop what we're doing Earth will become like Venus, so why keep checking back? We know your position, it couldn't be any clearer. Keep huggin' those trees mate.

Martin2005

What I meant was, the Tories are largely signed up to the same agenda as the current government, so if NL are socialist, then so too must be Cameron. Of course I believe that NL are about as far removed from socialism as Cameron is. Socialism if a failed ideology, it died in this country 20 years ago, hopefully there will be no reincarnation.
We have political parties 'dancing on the head of a pin' as far as policy is concerned, both trying to appeal to middle England.

TelBoy

Yeah, predictable i guess. Almost amusing. The thing is Jon, as i keep banging away at, is that i'm not just relying on numbers, believing it's a global conspiracy etc etc. And factually you're wrong, i don't believe it's completely man made but don't let that get in the way of a good story. If somebody on your side of the fence can convince me that climate (and for certain Antipodean contributors, not i haven't oh so carelessly said the "w" word there) is not changing before our very eyes, at a faster pace attributable to the much touted natural cycle, without the sole reliance on this that and the other statistical report, i'll wander off with my tail between my legs, no questions asked. It's that simple.

jonc

The fact is that there are no facts, or nothing that conclusively proves beyond a shadow of doubt that climate change is attributable to human activity or anything that we do can mitigate the change. The whole premise of climate change, for and against, are based on statistics however it may be represented, otherwise with out it how would you know the climate was changing and of that how much of that is man made? The IPCC reports is full of statistical tables, charts, graphs etc. It's how its represented that is questionable and forming policies based upon it. It would be akin to charging someone guilty of a crime and sentencing that person to prison based on circumstancial evidence. This is how *I feel* the green lobby and the Government are treating Joe public, we are all guilty without a chance of proving our innocence.

I've listen to both sides and formed my own opinion. This isn't to say I burn bonfires everyday and drive a chelsea tractor. I believe in conserving our natural resources and using it responsibly, but not in the name of global warming/climate change, or blindly following GW research from both camps, but for my kids future.

Klaatu

WOW! What a master debater, thanks for the abuse anyway. It's very clear you have very low intelligence around scientific fact and are totally unwilling to perceive anything outside your extreme narrow (Al Gore, anecdotal and IPCC) view.

When you grow up, little boy, some may welcome you back to sensibe debate, if you care to arm yourself with facts. Given you have contributed "ZERO" in terms of "debate" or even "solutions", I doubt that very much.

Pray? Ah, I see, I know why you "believe". Sad fool!

Holy Ghost

**

are you sure about that?

ID cards ... lisbon treaty ... 42 days ... thin Vs fat government ... IHT. there's clear blue water between the two on these issues and they are not insignificant - neither nationally nor individually. and i suspect we're likely to see more clear gaps emerge, especially on personal taxation, as we approach a general election and policies are publicly fleshed out.

if you mean same agenda as in the environment/energy, then i'd say you're broadly right. can't see that changing in the short term - until the next government (probably conservative) grasps the nuclear nettle unequivocally to stop the lights going out in or after 2015.

you're right that socialism is a failed ideology. but say that to a significant number of labour MPs and they'll look at you like you just shot their dog. it's still alive, well and stinking in many parts of the party.

Martin2005

Yep but on ID cards, 42 days, CCTV etc the Tories have are in the happy position of opposition and therefore we don't know what they really mean on these issues. I suspect if they were in power an awful lot of this 'anti-civil liberties' stuff would be pushed through parliament. I mean DC position on 42 days is a bit ambiguous isn't it?
Ultimately the gov (regardless of ideology) have a responsibility, above all, to protect the public, times are changing, the challenges are different, therefore the methods of tackling these problems need to change, this isn't a socialist thing this is a basic problem any government would be wrestling with.

As for the 'old gaurd' in the Labour party, well these characters have been total marginalised, their vehment hatred of Blair and NL is testament to that.

If you want to know what socialist looks like and believes in then look up George Galloway, btw his views on civil liberties are far closer to yours than the governments!!

Cheers

Martin

Holy Ghost

**

the similarities start and finish there. the former MP for baghdad central has the handicap of being an total and utter c**t. allegedly.

have a good weekend.

Martin2005

Well we are totally agreed on something then Galloway is more than just a c**t, he's a lying cheating, stealing one at that!!

A good weekend to yourself

I've enjoyed the discussion, nice to have a debate without someone slinging insults about

Holy Ghost

**

amen to that!

Leslie

Having returned from an awayday I see that the only reply to my post about your above remarks is a feeble response with no explanation at all and a sneer!

The only explanation of your post above is that you are accusing me of lying to SN and that I have been claiming that I had a career which I did not. That may well also includes the hobby which I had too.

This is a slanderous accusation and I take intense exception to it. I know you are not in a position to make it since I know the truth of it of course.

If you are going to make such an injurious statement then you should be very certain that you can prove what you say. Unless you can come up with a satisfactory explanation at the very least you will deserve to lose any respect you might have had. You are certainly not that important after all.

I say that it is time that you "put up" or apologise for what you said.

Les

Klaatu

To the OP, I am wondering too, it's VERY cold where I am, albeit winter.

WRXMATT

Just looked out of my window, i can confirm it still hasn't arrived

oldsplice

I'm sitting here in socks, Ugg boots, t-shirt and sweatshirt!

Abdabz

No matter what you all do to save the planet from global warming, you will barely offset the amazing trumps I am producing today after last nights currython

oldsplice

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Suresh

I saw on the news that a ship has been dispatched to the North Pole to witness the first ice-free summer since records began (1968 probably).

At this rate it's going to get trapped in frozen ice. The MMGW people will be sure to conveniently ignore the outcome as it certainly won't fit their agenda this time