J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I will pay £325 for my Saab and £205 for my wife's Sharan next year, when I am on my bike, my car is on the path, so I think my payments cover my use of a bicycle whenever I choose.

I cannot use motorways and most A roads, my emissions are zero, I dont do many miles and the lowest car band is £35 a year so i cant see how a push bike can cost three times more than a car, a nominal fee to contribute toowards cyclepaths might be an idea and prehaps some basic insurance requirement but it would be difficult ot enforce, i.e. a 10 yr old on a bike, kids up and down the road they live on.

Kieran_Burns

iTrader: (1)

Pedestrians do not pay road tax to cross over the road, so does this mean that if they are crossing and some mad idiot knocks them over they are not allowed to complain, as they were in the space the car 'paid for'????

Or are you saying that if you pay MORE tax to be on the road, you have MORE right to be in a particular space? In which case, the next time a lorry pancakes your car, don't bother complaining - he pays WAY more road tax than you.

Are you now seeing just how ridiculous your comment was?

trails

iTrader: (41)

if quite a few posters are to be believed this is one of Pete's new aliases. HTH

SJ_Skyline

SiPie, J4cko - great posts chaps

Coffin Dodger

Don't get to wound up, it's just pslewis under his latest alias doing what he does best

Kieran_Burns

iTrader: (1)

Bloody Hell!

I thought YOU were PSLewis under his latest alias!!!

Coffin Dodger

No I am the anti-pslewis

Scooby-kid

I agree that it is a very sad fact the young girl died. I do however think she was partly to blame. All the people on here saying "if he had time to shout, then he had time to slow down/stop" well my view is that if he had time to shout, then the group of kids had time to move.

I myslef am 16 years of age and regulaly ride around 5 miles into town and home, the amount of people I come across who have no repsect whatsoever makes me cringe sometimes. It is moslty groups of chavs whom I shout to, usually "excuse me" or "watchout", and most of the time they look at me a laugh amongst themselves. So I carry on going, this is not because I believe I am superior to them, not becasue they just didn't move, but becasue they have taken the choice to purposley block my path, I mean come on. Why, WHY, what is the point. I think it serves them right when they get a jab in the gut from my handlebar, THEY CHOSE TO STAND THERE. Its not as if they didnt hear, its not as if they didn't have time, they chose to stand there!! Why not just go to the nearest army baracks and when a soldier shouts "I am going to fire this gun" step in front of the barrel?



Scott.

PG

An interesting read

scoobynutta555

Think some people here are getting carried away with themselves. A bit of background I've not heard here yet: she was walking with a group of eight friends to a chip shop after they all were drinking in a park. It's on record that she had at least 2 cans of beer (possibly more).

It's not beyond belief that a group of drunk under age teenagers playing chicken with the cyclist (also on record) would be more at fault than a middle aged bloke on a bike going about his normal business.

Those advocating lynching the bloke should consider all the facts rather than rely on what they listen to from the BBC. I heard no mention at all on any BBC reports that the underage girl had been drinking in a park with a gang of mates then playing chicken with someone, who as far as I can see, was on a public highway at the time. He shouted a warning and at the last minute the girl stepped into his path. After the collision the cyclist stopped and administered first aid.

Compare his actions with a nobber who hit and run a 91 year old granny and never stopped.

Hit-and-run driver who killed woman, 91, escapes with a £700 fine | Mail Online

Abdabz

ROFLMAO at the concept of taxing cyclists, every kid with stableisers queueing at the post office for a tax disc. Would people who ride tandems need to go in together?
Would we need MOTs on bikes over 3 years old
Joking aside most bike riders own cars and already pay road tax and cant use the bike and the car at the same time

As for bikers needing to be insured - optional and maybe sensible for some - but mandatory - no - very silly...

This was an accident - a tragedy and from what I have read the parents are just at that stage of the grieving process where they are lashing out... I hope they find peace soon enough.

c_maguire

[I'm not advocating road tax for cyclists, but as to your point, I can't drive/ride every motor vehicle I own at the same time but that doesn't stop me being forced to pay road tax on all of them does it?

Why exactly is public liability insurance silly exactly? Until such time as there is some degree of culpability regarding the moronic behaviour of cyclists/pedestrians/mobility scooters etc then a large number of them will continue to behave in a manner that is either selfish or indicative of some belief that they are immortal like Connor McLeod in Highlander. In so far as children are concerned that liability insurance could operate in the same way that Home and Contents insurance does, such that one policy could cover parents and all children under 16. Anyone 16 or older would require their own policy.

]

Kevin

SunnySideUp

OK, I see that my comments fell on deaf ears ...... and have been voted accordingly.

Coffin-Dodger is pslewis ..... everyone knows that to be the case.

I still think that cyclists (ok, some cyclist) act like complete and utter 4rseholes to car drivers ....... and to pedestrians when they choose to ride at high speed on the pavement.

Of course there are arsehole car drivers who don't give cyclists enough room and there are decent cyclists about ...... but you just know the types who are going to give trouble, Lycra clad and wearing silly sunglasses and racing gloves (maybe we should tax Lycra shorts and gimpy sunglasses?)

I do love some cyclists however:-

http://www.goclipless.com/images/body_paint_cyclist.jpg

These are the ones you need to watch out for!! :-

http://www.hipresurfacingindia.com/I...us_cyclist.jpg

Klaatu

In links to the article, at the start of the thread and regardless of posts by PG, there is no reference to "a group playing chicken" with a "cyclist" there is also no reference to the court not being sure where the victim was, on the road or on the pavement. All the article states is that she died from head injuires suffered after she was knocked to the ground, head stricking "the pavement", by a cyclist who shouted "I'm not stopping". If the cyclist was on the "pavement" it is his responsibility to ensure he does not strike pedestrians, meaning it's his responsibility to ensure he is sufficiently far away enough from any obstruction. If the pedestrian, suddenly, stepped out into the road, there appears to be enough time for him to analyse the situation and determine what actions to take, ie, shout he's not stopping (Premeditated) and strike the woman to the ground.

As some one stated, if this was a motorbike/car rider/driver, it would have been jail!

I think you need to re-read your highway code and local council bylaws.

The Zohan

Spot on!

trails

iTrader: (41)

that makes absolute sense if you ignore all the information at hand. The reason he had time to shut was because the the kids in question were jumping in and out of his intended path. When he struck the girl he flew over the bars and basically head butted her...she fell backwards struck her head on the pavement and sadly died. The cyclist was on the road not the pavement and the girls actions directly contributed to her death, hence the judgement.

Coffin Dodger

Ha ha ha, yeah of course I'm pslewis, tvvat

trails

iTrader: (41)

and you are just a troll

dpb

I believe he should hold more reponsibilty , if he struck one of these kids at that sort of velocity ( enuff to headbutt the victim once over the bars) AND on this sort of machinery - its an epensive and presumably lightish bike ( why anyone would time trail on a mountain bike defeats me ,but anyway) but is still a hefty item compared to a road bike

trails

iTrader: (41)

its the old stick through the spokes physics...if you ride a bike you know exactly what I mean. This whole incident is a one in a million event with a terrible outcome.

Kieran_Burns

iTrader: (1)

The thing is:

We get all these speed kills adverts lambasting irresponsible drivers for reckless speeding in residential areas. We get all the heart-wrenching images of cute little kiddies being mangled by satanic drivers hitting them at 40mph.

We're told to reduce our speed and that driving at 30mph massively increases the likelihood of survival and lessened injury.

This cyclist was doing 17mph on a 'vehicle' that weighs a very small percentage of the weight of a car. So his speed was almost HALF of the speed figures advertised as being so much safer, and his mass a small fraction that a car would have. I know that the area of impact for a bike / person is far less than that of a car, but moment of impact (i.e. the actual LEVEL of force imbued on the person being hit) MUST be far far less than that when a car hits someone.

Also: I've gone over the handlebars on my bike before (broken my wrist doing so once). When you suddenly hit something and stop dead, that's the logical way to go as bikes are VERY top heavy. Going over the handle bars when directly hitting something is not an indication of excess speed. His head-butting her would be a combination of his extra height (your head level is physically higher on a correctly set up bike than when stood on the ground) and her (assumed) shorter stature.

Finally: It seems that he was in the road when the impact happened, that the girl stepped in front of him at the last moment, there is anecdotal evidence that she had been drinking.

I maintain that this was a tragic accident, a rare combination of circumstances led to her death. If she had been offset a tiny amount, the blow would be a glancing one and she'd be injured but alive. If she hadn't been drinking and showing off, she may not have considered such a course of action. If *he* hadn't been so inconsiderate / proud then he may have slowed down sufficiently to lessen the impact


I've seen some ridiculous comments in this thread, and some reasoned ones. The bottom line (IMHO) is that both individuals contributed to the events: one will live with the knowledge that they killed someone, one was killed.

One last point:

People have taken this opportunity to berate cyclists and tar them with the same brush - make us out to be urban terrorists on wheels. Cyclists have responded berating drivers and pedestrians.

It seems to me that if we ALL acted with more consideration to EVERY other road user (cyclist, pedestrian and motor vehicle driver) there'd be way less accidents in the first place.

trails

iTrader: (41)

GC8WRX

My bottom line.............

If id have been driving my impreza, and shouted "out the way im not stopping", then ploughed into someone-wether they were playing chiken or not-i would have been made an example of by the courts!

This tw@ has got away lightly!

He should have the same treatment as if he was driving a car i.e 10 years at least!

Shouting "im not stopping" to me means pre meditated as well!

BUt if that happened all the mung bean eating, sandal wearing, human rights and enviromental brigade would have kittens!

trails

iTrader: (41)

read the whole thread before commenting and you might be able to add a little value...nowhere in this thread have sandal wearing, human rights and environmental brigade, so why bring it up?

SJ_Skyline

Best comment on this thread so far

r32

A sad case, any unneccessary injury or death is sad. I do thinkthough that there are already sufficient laws for both cyclists and pedestrians. Passing any more would not make any difference.

Making cyclists have insurance or registration plates would seem pretty stupid, perhaps pedestrians should have numbers and insurance too? There are more incidents caused by pedestrians than cyclists. There are dangerous drivers, dangerous cyclists and dangerous pedestrians too. I dont know of anything (and nothing has been suggested here) that would make any significant improvement, other than perhaps dedicated cycle ways as on the continent.

I did go into the local libray looking for a book on cyclepaths, they suggested I tried the crime section!

Kieran_Burns

iTrader: (1)

Do you think they misheard you and thought you said psychopaths?

Some would say they mean the same thing!

CrisPDuk

If you really think a modern middle of the road mountain bike is a heavy compared to a 'road bike' I think we can be pretty safe in the assumption that you know next to nothing about bicycles can't we

CrisPDuk

Klaatu, the girl was 17 years old, if she was say 5' tall (average height for her age) she could easily have been stood 3' into the road and still managed to hit her head on pavement when falling!

I've now seen and heard both of her parents, plus several relatives and friends, interviewed on the radio and TV, and I'm afraid the more I see and hear of this incident the more I'm inclined to believe that she herself played a big part in bringing the accident about

PG

Didn't hear much about this one when it happened............

Lorry driver who killed cyclist walks free from court with 'ludicrous' £275 fine | Mail Online