Spoon

.....grand final winner.

You chocked on teachers apple so I finished it for you.

+Doc+

The annoying thing about Incapacity benefit is the (un)incentive to get back into employment.
My wife has been on IB for a number of years after a nasty illness and major operation that left her virtual unable to do any work.
Now she is slowly gaining her fitness and is tearing her hair out wanting work but the options are limited.
The constraints on permitted work are very limiting, 16 hours a week and a maximum of £90 wages is all you are allowed.
I don't know of many employers who offer a contract with these limitations and are willing to take someone who has been on long time sick and will no doubt have to take time off work now and again. bearing in mind the type of work would have to be seated so that is yet another limitation.

The govt of course needs to siv the scroungers out by changing policies however they also need to address the issues of getting people back into employment without the need for cutting benefits or stopping them.

My wife has now took the steps to volunteer as a CCTV operator at the local nick just to keep her mind working, this is an act of desperation after no help whatsoever from the JC.

GC8

I cant make my point any more clearly, perhaps you should re-read my post?

Simon

scoobynutta555

Why? Where have I said I find your post unclear?

war1974

the thing is they still wont target the correct people my dad has pdsd and can hardly walk yet has been into the dss office 3 times now to try and get him into work despite letters from his psychologist etc!
whereas my ex gave birth 10years ago to my daughter and has never done a days work since as she hurt her back during the epidural?
her new partner has a bad knee so other than fiddle jobs does **** all either yet they done get called in?????

it wont make sod all difference the people who know the system will still know how to work it whereas the people who dont will get shafted!!

GREAT BRITAIN my ***

war1974

[QUOTE=+Doc+;8020472]The annoying thing about Incapacity benefit is the (un)incentive to get back into employment.
My wife has been on IB for a number of years after a nasty illness and major operation that left her virtual unable to do any work.
Now she is slowly gaining her fitness and is tearing her hair out wanting work but the options are limited.
The constraints on permitted work are very limiting, 16 hours a week and a maximum of £90 wages is all you are allowed.
I don't know of many employers who offer a contract with these limitations and are willing to take someone who has been on long time sick and will no doubt have to take time off work now and again. bearing in mind the type of work would have to be seated so that is yet another limitation.

The govt of course needs to siv the scroungers out by changing policies however they also need to address the issues of getting people back into employment without the need for cutting benefits or stopping them.

My wife has now took the steps to volunteer as a CCTV operator at the local nick just to keep her mind working, this is an act of desperation after no help whatsoever from the JC.

beware of that as i done the odd days work for an agency here and there when i had a disc removed from my back till i was more able to commit to more days

i have a bill for 250 benefits now which i shouldnt have claimed as i worked 8-15.75 hours per week therefore the benefits stop and what you earn is your benefit??

Leslie

There are other ways of being genuinely disabled apart from limping etc. You have to be a bit careful when you descend into criticising the disabled.

Les

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

My mrs works and is a lot more disabled than many of the sick notes out there.

when she started work she would have been better off on benefits but didn't want to be a scrounger and wanted to work for her money so she got a job and things are going really well for her. As she has a condition which will never change and eventually see her in a whherlchair she is getting a little help still (motobility) but has every right to be proud of what she has done. The trouble is the "i'm better on benefits" or "no incentive" people don't motivate themselves. There is always someone else to blame "oooh i'd love to work but their is no incentive" how about having a bit of pride and self respect?

I'm not saying it is the same in every single case that clearly isn't possible but i think it is in a lot of it.

This new directive is a good move but unfortunately won't work. They can't remove benefits or kick people out of houses so they'll just carry on as before if they won't work.

I'd make it so benefits were not in cash but in actual goods. Govt issue 14" TV govt issue furniture (cheap as chips) and meals at the job centre so no worries about paying for food.

Be amazing how many people would suddenly prefer work if being out of it actually meant doing something.

5t.

swampster

iTrader: (1)

I think that was his point Les... I think he was being facetious as that is the kind of comment you would expect from many a SNetter... the basic 'if you aren't a cripple in a vegative state then get off your lazy scrounging ****, cos if I can get to work with a broken fingernail...blah blah rant' mentality..

Evil Twin of Tarquin

All seems perfectly fair to me, put a time limit on benefits. After that time you are reassessed. If you have a genuine incapacity, possibly determined by a panel rather than a single source, fair enough you keep your benefits. If you don't and you are just a dole scrounging ****** you get put to work in the community with pocket money of £10 per week. Accomodation, food and clothing is then provided by the state.

With the impending recession (if it isn't already here) this benefits shake-up could be taken further and we could re-introduce the concept of the poorhouse / workhouse. I also think we could bring back special debtors prisons.

Leslie

Fair enough I suppose. One has to remember that working can actually cause a great deal of long term pain even if you don't need to be in a wheelchair. And heart disorders etc don't necessarily make you limp.

Les

Spoon

Les, Pete's post was totally tongue in cheek. He was in defence of there being so many other forms of disability.

PeteBrant

Hmm yes, and child labour while we're at it!

PeteBrant

Sorry Les, yes I was being faecetious. I hate the assumption that if you aren't in a wheel chair there is no way you can have a disability. Is especially irks me when people say

"They were in a disabled bay with blue badge and they *walked* to the car"

Evil Twin of Tarquin

Why not? Quite a few do work already (paper rounds etc) so why not formalise it? Weekend working would do them no harm and may instill a work ethic in them.

scoobynutta555

I agree to a certain extent. Formal schooling is not working for a number of children. Look at the drop out rates, expulsions and truancy rates. A well thought out hybrid schooling/work related project may go some way to tackling disenfranchised youths.

The gov't should have implemented all of Wisconsin. 5 years maximum claim time in a working life no longer than a 2 year stretch. Benefit payments went down 80% IIRC. That's at least £100 billion saving for us each year not including extra income tax gain. Bring back Frank Field MP.

Martin2005

I want my children to enjoy there childhood not be forced into work, there's plenty of time for them to get into the daily grind when they're older thanks very much.

PeteBrant

You agree with child labour to a certain extent? Good grief

What are the drop out/truancy and expulsion rates compared to , say , 20 years ago?


Frank Field would not go for a wisconsin style affair, that's for certain. He more lefty than I am

I am just pleased that we haven't nor are we ever likely to adopt that style of "welfare".


Just out of interest. What would you want done with the £100Billion?

Less taxes? Better public services?

scoobynutta555

I guess you really don't know much about Frank Field do you? I suggest you do some research on the guy. Yes he is left wing, more than most. He was also drafted in to 'think the unthinkable' by Blair. Well, he thought the unthinkable and his report was largely ignored and he was dropped like a hot coal. IIRC he favoured a very tough stance on benefits using the American model adopted by Clinton, shock horror a Democrat on welfare reform! I've seen him on Tv berating the gov'ts proposals as not being tough enough and for missing out on the 5 year thing.

Frank has opinions on disenfrachised youth too:

Saving lost pupils one by one | Frank Field - Times Online

What would you do with over £100 billion? What would you want to do? It's truely a massive some of money. I'd be in favour of knocking out all income tax to a certain level, say the first £20k if attainable and flat taxing 20% on everything above that, for business as well.

PeteBrant

I knew it

We are never, ever going to find common ground. I beleive in the common good.

Evil Twin of Tarquin

Now that's just molly-coddling them

Far better to break them in to the workforce gently than to drop them in at the deep end. By dropping them in it comes as an awful shock, no-one telling them what to do or what the answer is (unlike education) the stress of having to get up, the requirement for dedication.... whereas starting them off with some easy menial tasks from say age 7 and slowly increasing the load would be far better aand make them more productive citizens, surely?

I'm not adviocating more than a couple, say 2, of hours work per week, possibly on a saturday morning. It's not too onerous, teaches them to apply themselves to a task and the money they earn teaches them from an early age that if you work you earn, if you earn you can spend.

Pete in answer to the last part of your post about the 108; I would spend it on better targetted and more appropriate services.

Martin2005

Am i missing something here, where did the £100Bn come from? Are we going to stop paying pensions as well?

PeteBrant

From ****ing seven?

PeteBrant

Damn straight

Martin2005

It's hard to know where to start on this so I wont even begin

scoobynutta555

So do I. Paying for somebody to waste their life away at my expense can never be for the common good can it.

Evil Twin of Tarquin

You think it should be earlier? Sir, I like the cut of your jib

Evil Twin of Tarquin

Go on, treat yourself

scoobynutta555

I can't really say what you might be missing The £100 billion was a hypothetical figure I've used for illustrative purposes. Without the benefit of a million pound inquiry with a bank of accountants I can't give accurate figs. The welfare budget including pensions, last year was over £130 billion.

Martin2005

So it's no in the slightest bit feasable to save £100bn anyway then is it? If we could save £5Bn then that would be a result!

I'd spend it on pensions, £5bn a year would go a long way towards restoring the link between earnings and pensions