Mankind to return to the moon?
#152
I'm not for one minute suggesting that you are stupid and apologise if that's how things came across. I just really can't comprehend where you're coming from that's all - and no i'm not stupid either!!
#156
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Yes i get all that, Ritchie, but i'm not banging the CT drum as hard as some on here believe, or would like to believe. What i've said all along is that it could have been faked, and for that to have happened, the crews would either have had to be promised some ludicrously good payout for their families after death to keep quiet, or they were brainwashed etc etc. I'm not a stupid man despite all the evidence, and i know that's all very far-fetched, BUT the faint possibility of it being a cover-up does still exist.
All that said: I still want to know who was driving that white FIAT Uno.....
Simon
#157
Let's say that sometime in the next umpteen years there is a return visit to the Moon. All televised (same as before) and with lots of pictures and NASA web galleries and stuff. And they don't fry (same as before).
What's to stop people saying that this one is a hoax too ? What would convince the CT people that the flight has really gone to the Moon ?
What's to stop people saying that this one is a hoax too ? What would convince the CT people that the flight has really gone to the Moon ?
#158
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Education. Instead of ignoring conspiracy theories and considering replying to be beneath them, they should deconstruct the theories rather than allowing them to gather pace...
#159
Yes i get all that, Ritchie, but i'm not banging the CT drum as hard as some on here believe, or would like to believe. What i've said all along is that it could have been faked, and for that to have happened, the crews would either have had to be promised some ludicrously good payout for their families after death to keep quiet, or they were brainwashed etc etc. I'm not a stupid man despite all the evidence, and i know that's all very far-fetched, BUT the faint possibility of it being a cover-up does still exist.
Rude and unpleasant comments also go a long way to weaken one's arguments.
Les
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Les, I see where Telboy is coming from, its pretty obvious since he's said it nthteen times already. Unless I have read this completely wrong - in Tels opinion man has been on the moon based on evidence and probabilities presented, but his mind is open to change. All the comments about faking it are not HIS, its just he is the one being the devils advocate on this particular thread.
Its hardly rocket science, is it
Its hardly rocket science, is it
#161
It seemed to me that if you were prepared to go on and on about their ability to fake it all and even go as far as to brainwash the astronauts and probably all those who worked for Nasa at the time, then you must at least be trying to place doubt in people's minds about whether it happened or not. What on earth can be the point of that especially when there is not a shred of proof that it could have happened like that.
It showed gross disrespect to such an amazing achievement for no good reason.
If you want to play devil's advocate you also have to be prepared to accept that others will disagree with you and unpleasant or rude replies are quite unnecessary.
Les
It showed gross disrespect to such an amazing achievement for no good reason.
If you want to play devil's advocate you also have to be prepared to accept that others will disagree with you and unpleasant or rude replies are quite unnecessary.
Les
Last edited by Leslie; 03 August 2008 at 11:19 AM.
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The camera was started by remote, but it then just followed the craft up at a pre-determined rate, hardly rocket science (well, actually..... )
Geezer
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Let's say that sometime in the next umpteen years there is a return visit to the Moon. All televised (same as before) and with lots of pictures and NASA web galleries and stuff. And they don't fry (same as before).
What's to stop people saying that this one is a hoax too ?
What's to stop people saying that this one is a hoax too ?
What would convince the CT people that the flight has really gone to the Moon ?
#164
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Not true for all CTers, Olly, you can't make sweeping generalisations like that.
Another thread that raises all the same issues, just in case you can't get to sleep tonight...
Paranormal Forums - :: View topic - Moon landings
Another thread that raises all the same issues, just in case you can't get to sleep tonight...
Paranormal Forums - :: View topic - Moon landings
#165
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Another thread that raises all the same issues, just in case you can't get to sleep tonight...
Paranormal Forums - :: View topic - Moon landings
Paranormal Forums - :: View topic - Moon landings
Last edited by OllyK; 04 August 2008 at 08:38 AM.
#166
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Exactly why i've not bothered with links. It leads nowhere. And most CTers do have criteria which they would accept as definitive proof. The ones who would deny it come what may are the ones who need locking up.
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I agree linking to another debate is largely a waste of time. But if you can find a well put together CT site that takes each item in turn and and carefully explains the problems with the moon landings then that would be different.
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Why not? Clavius.org is not a discussion site, but a very pointed refutation of each point in turn by well respected scientists in the fields that are contested.
Each claim is examined, and then extremely well though out responses (that are verifiable through respected channels, not CT wild claiming or paranoia) are put forward as to why the CT claims are incorrect.
When I first heard the CTs for the moon landings, I can see why some people without an understanding (myself included) would question some of them, but some of it was clearly wild speculation right from the start.
However, some of them are blindingly obvious as to why they have happened (the pictures being one) but all of the claims have been proved to be false, backed up with suitable scientific evidence. This simply has no happened the other way round.
Geezer
Each claim is examined, and then extremely well though out responses (that are verifiable through respected channels, not CT wild claiming or paranoia) are put forward as to why the CT claims are incorrect.
When I first heard the CTs for the moon landings, I can see why some people without an understanding (myself included) would question some of them, but some of it was clearly wild speculation right from the start.
However, some of them are blindingly obvious as to why they have happened (the pictures being one) but all of the claims have been proved to be false, backed up with suitable scientific evidence. This simply has no happened the other way round.
Geezer
#170
There are probably quite a few reasons for those who feel they have to attempt to debunk the moon landings, such as an innate dislike for the USA, sheer jealousy for one reason or another, or maybe even a tabloid type of view of the whole thing, like the redtop papers hoping to create a fuss about it all because they have nothing better to live for.
If there was any kind of positive proof that there had been a huge scam then one can understand why such things might be examined and discussed. So far there has been no method displayed how Nasa managed to persuade all their workers and the astronauts to take part in a con to fool the rest of the world. In fact I reckon that would have been an achievement to almost match going to the moon and back.
It cannot be denied that it was a magnificent achievement and since there is nothing whatsoever to prove that they cheated I think that the theories about it being a fraud should be laughed out of court and that instead they should be given the unconditional plaudits that they well deserve.
All this "sour grapes" attitude does nothing to impress with regard to the characters of those who persist in these accusations.
Les
If there was any kind of positive proof that there had been a huge scam then one can understand why such things might be examined and discussed. So far there has been no method displayed how Nasa managed to persuade all their workers and the astronauts to take part in a con to fool the rest of the world. In fact I reckon that would have been an achievement to almost match going to the moon and back.
It cannot be denied that it was a magnificent achievement and since there is nothing whatsoever to prove that they cheated I think that the theories about it being a fraud should be laughed out of court and that instead they should be given the unconditional plaudits that they well deserve.
All this "sour grapes" attitude does nothing to impress with regard to the characters of those who persist in these accusations.
Les
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Because no sites offer new evidence, geezer. Simple as. You either think that the doubts as a whole, refuted though they are, add up to the possibility of a cover-up, or you don't.
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Les how many more times are you going to spout the same hollow drivel? I don't fekkin care what you think. Tell it to the 8% of Americans who are obviously jealous of their own country. Fof ****'s sake listen to yourself. You are not the authority on this subject, you do not know the truth for 100% certain, just get off you frigging high horse and let other people make their own decisions, without being partonised to the nth degree by armchair experts like you.
#173
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It is the CTers who offer NO evidence, let alone any new evidence.
Come on, post one link to a creditable site, I dare ya
Geezer
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On the subject of crackpots. I wathed a documentary I had sky plussed the other day, about tower 7 collapsing on 9/11.
It was quite a balanced view of both sides. And once they had gone through and debunked pretty much every single conspiracy theory, the head of Architects for 9/11 truth or such like claimed that that building had actually been constructed with explosive embedded into the structure in 1988
It was quite a balanced view of both sides. And once they had gone through and debunked pretty much every single conspiracy theory, the head of Architects for 9/11 truth or such like claimed that that building had actually been constructed with explosive embedded into the structure in 1988
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So you are basically saying that you don't believe what these highly qualified, highly respected scientists say in refutation, over what a few crackpots say without any backup whatsoever?
It is the CTers who offer NO evidence, let alone any new evidence.
Come on, post one link to a creditable site, I dare ya
Geezer
It is the CTers who offer NO evidence, let alone any new evidence.
Come on, post one link to a creditable site, I dare ya
Geezer
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And you can repeat until the cows come home that you are open minded, that is not the issue. You stated that you could post a link to site that had reasonable evidence, and that is all I have asked you to do, in essence, but you have refused.
As for 1969, well I was around then, I wish I was younger, but I ain't . I don't really rememebr the first landing, but I sure do remember the later ones.
As for it being done just before the dealine was up, well I have worked for some very large organisations, I can tell you that hardly anything ever gets delivered before time is up, even when it's possible. To be honest, if they had done it in 1965, I would be more inclined to believe they had hoaxed it.
Geezer
As for 1969, well I was around then, I wish I was younger, but I ain't . I don't really rememebr the first landing, but I sure do remember the later ones.
As for it being done just before the dealine was up, well I have worked for some very large organisations, I can tell you that hardly anything ever gets delivered before time is up, even when it's possible. To be honest, if they had done it in 1965, I would be more inclined to believe they had hoaxed it.
Geezer
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So, let's get this straight. The flat earth society are fukcing nuts because they refuse to believe all the compelling evidence that the earth is round, and that it's all a huge conspiracy involving many many people, yet the people who who dismiss all the compelling evidence of the moon landings and think that many many people are involved in a huge conspiracy are not?
I'll try to figure that one out......
Geezer
I'll try to figure that one out......
Geezer
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I'm going to poke needles into my eyes soon.
Because, Geezer, i can see that the Earth is not flat. I've even been high enough to see the curve of the Earth. It's measurable. It's provable. It's observable. The scientists can throw the kitchen sink at the moon landing doubters, and they have, but they can't prove man walked on the moon.
Because, Geezer, i can see that the Earth is not flat. I've even been high enough to see the curve of the Earth. It's measurable. It's provable. It's observable. The scientists can throw the kitchen sink at the moon landing doubters, and they have, but they can't prove man walked on the moon.